Home Defense CQB - AR vs. Pistol

[Doublehelix]

I know this topic comes up often enough, but I am still stumped as to why and when someone would want to use an AR-platform rifle for home defense (CQB) vs. a pistol loaded with some decent HP defense ammo.

I am not being confrontational, I seriously am wondering how it can be used effectively.

I know a lot of people advocate for a shotgun for home defense, and I think those arguments make total sense, except that I do not own a shotgun.

The AR platform is harder to maneuver in tight quarters vs. a pistol, there are issues with over-penetration with a small high-speed load, etc.

I keep one of my AR's handy with a couple of loaded magazines close by, but last night as I was laying in bed, I started thinking about what situation short of a zombie or Russian/Chinese invasion that I would actually prefer the AR over a pistol.

I keep a pistol loaded and ready to go at all times by my bed with backup magazines loaded with HP defense rounds, and it just seems like a better solution (short of a shotgun).

I'd love to hear from others that use their AR rifles as a self defense weapon in their homes...

Thanks!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The right ammo over penetrates less than quality self defense loads for pistols.
No comparison in terminal effect.
Easier to use under stress.

While not getting into the CQB vs home defense, I think the AR is extremely effective in the role of a home defense weapon, assuming the user does his/her part.

 

[lovemachine]

There are reasons for each one. What matters the most is which platform you're better acquainted with. Me, I have more training with my pistol than with my rifle or shotgun. So the pistol is my personal choice.

 

[iChokePeople]

In addition to what's above, some people don't intend to go house clearing. Others are well trained in moving and fighting with a rifle. The rifle or pistol or flamethrower (note: I don't recommend this for defending your own home...) is just a tool.

 

[level0]

What matters the most is which platform you're better acquainted with.

+1 on this. It's all about comfort level. Any of these platforms will successfully defend your hearth and home, but it's on you to know how to use them. Go with what you know.

 

[Doublehelix]

Thanks everyone.

The right ammo over penetrates less than quality self defense loads for pistols.
No comparison in terminal effect.
Easier to use under stress.

Hmmmm... this surprises me. I thought a good mushroomed pistol round wouldn't go too far after going through a body (of course there are many different things in the body that it can hit on the way through of course). I have not really seen this same type of expansion with .223/5.56 rounds, but that could just mean I have never really researched it. I do know that a good .223/5.56 self defense round will fragment like crazy, is this what keeps them from over-penetrating as opposed to the mushroomed HP pistol rounds?

There was a thread on self-defense ammo for AR-15's recently in either the General Firearms Discussion forum or Long Guns Forum, but I could not find it after searching.

So what do you recommend for home defense rounds for an AR-15 (.223/5.56)? The gun I have designated for home defense has a 1:9 twist, but I also have 1:7 twist guns available. I think I would like to keep the 1:9 for home defense however. I normally shoot 55 gr. through this gun without issues, although I have shot some of the heavier rounds that the 1:7 barrels prefer, and they seemed to shoot fine as well.

 

[Doublehelix]

There are reasons for each one. What matters the most is which platform you're better acquainted with. Me, I have more training with my pistol than with my rifle or shotgun. So the pistol is my personal choice.

Yep. Me as well.

In addition to what's above, some people don't intend to go house clearing. Others are well trained in moving and fighting with a rifle. The rifle or pistol or flamethrower (note: I don't recommend this for defending your own home...) is just a tool.

+1 on this. It's all about comfort level. Any of these platforms will successfully defend your hearth and home, but it's on you to know how to use them. Go with what you know.

I actually have zero official training on the AR platform, just YouTube (!!!), and times at the range with buddies that are better acquainted with the platform than I am. I would love to take some tactical rifle training sometime. I need to start looking now for something in the Spring as the weather starts to warm.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Hmmmm... this surprises me. I thought a good mushroomed pistol round wouldn't go too far after going through a body (of course there are many different things in the body that it can hit on the way through of course).

They don't. It's misses and those that fail to expand that do. A .40 keeps on chugging through dry wall after a .223 has tumbled/fragmented and turned into a tiny sand blaster in many instances. There's no sure things with bullets, but that's been my observation.

So what do you recommend for home defense rounds for an AR-15 (.223/5.56)? The gun I have designated for home defense has a 1:9 twist, but I also have 1:7 twist guns available. I think I would like to keep the 1:9 for home defense however. I normally shoot 55 gr. through this gun without issues, although I have shot some of the heavier rounds that the 1:7 barrels prefer, and they seemed to shoot fine as well.

Read this and match to what most closely meets your requirements: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4344-5-56-mm-Duty-Loads

 

[jd4320t]

If you try it out you'll probably see that you can actually maneuver easier with a shouldered AR15 than an extended out pistol

 

[cbhausen]

A less experienced shooter will score more hits under stress with a carbine. And my Tavor X95 is shorter than a pistol held at arm's length, probably about the same length with a can on the rifle. My rifle also has a red dot and tactical light and soon will have a laser. My rifle holds 30 rounds and can be used to bludgeon. I keep both close for home defense but given the choice I'll go to the Tavor.

For those who remain unconvinced, check out Friday Night Steel at MCF&G sometime. Carbines (pistol-caliber in this case) rule.

 

[iChokePeople]

I actually have zero official training on the AR platform, just YouTube (!!!), and times at the range with buddies that are better acquainted with the platform than I am. I would love to take some tactical rifle training sometime. I need to start looking now for something in the Spring as the weather starts to warm.

kudos on realizing that you need to get some good training. Do it. YOU are the weapon, the other things are just tools.

 

[cedartop]

I have a fair amount of training in both. I keep an AR and pistol. To make it simple, if it is inside I am grabbing the pistol, outside the AR. (I live on property) Yes, there could be a bunch of variables, that is just a general rule.

I don't by default maneuver with an extended pistol the whole time so the post above mine isn't exactly apples to apples. One benefit of the AR of course would be that it would make a superior striking tool.

I think you and others hit on something important in using whatever you can use more effectively due to your ability to operate said platform.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

What do professionals tasked with going to bad places and then going into buildings to get bad guys prefer to use?
I'm betting whatever it is has a shoulder stock on it.

 

[lovemachine]

What do professionals tasked with going to bad places and then going into buildings to get bad guys prefer to use?
I'm betting whatever it is has a shoulder stock on it.

And they are well trained to do that. The average homeowner is not. I will not clear my house. My plan is to get out of the house if I can. And I will be hiding outside with my wife and my pistol, waiting for the police to come. I'll be sitting, waiting, behind a bush, writing down the bad guys' license plate number as well.

 

[Nam1911]

My reasons concern my wife, 4 yr old son, and 7 week old daughters hearing. Hearing damage is damage and one will never get it back. I have fired pistol rounds indoors with no hearing protection and I can still function while doing so. Firing a .223/5.56 outside is painful for me. I can't imagine firing it indoors with my wife and kids being subject to that hearing damage. I'll take my chances with my low pressure 45ACP rounds from my 1911. Those are manageable.

I understand people in war fire rifle rounds all the time with no hearing protection. But then again none of them come back with the same hearing. My cousin served 3 tours and hes pretty just deaf in one ear and has half his hearing in the other. This is the same reason I will never carry 357 magnum rounds. The muzzle blast/report is painful and causes me to wince and close my eyes. I already have hearing damage and don't want to make it worse than it has to.

 

[Ronn38]

I think size of living space, proximity or other occupied spaces (like duplex or an apt vs SFH or rural), and floorplan (say a "railroad"style apt vrs the home full of nooks) have a barring on choice, in addition to personal experience/training/familiarity with platform. I don't have an AR (FNFAL man myself), but I'm well versed in my various Berettas (71, 38, and 96) and the 12 gauge next to my bed.

Like the post-adolescent I am, I occasionally practice sweeping my Duplex with my 96--but I'd held for the 12 if I actually ever heard the door coming in...

However, all that said, a would agree that in a high-stress scenario (and what else is home invasion), I think a short barreled AR provides one an easier sighting plan, higher mag capacity, and a certain "intimidation" factor that would be an advantage in a home invasion. I'd still take a shotgun over the AR hands down. But I see how the AR is easily a better platfrom for home defense.[h=2][/h]

 

[rhino]

I know this topic comes up often enough, but I am still stumped as to why and when someone would want to use an AR-platform rifle for home defense (CQB) vs. a pistol loaded with some decent HP defense ammo.

I am not being confrontational, I seriously am wondering how it can be used effectively.

I know a lot of people advocate for a shotgun for home defense, and I think those arguments make total sense, except that I do not own a shotgun.

The AR platform is harder to maneuver in tight quarters vs. a pistol, there are issues with over-penetration with a small high-speed load, etc.

I keep one of my AR's handy with a couple of loaded magazines close by, but last night as I was laying in bed, I started thinking about what situation short of a zombie or Russian/Chinese invasion that I would actually prefer the AR over a pistol.

I keep a pistol loaded and ready to go at all times by my bed with backup magazines loaded with HP defense rounds, and it just seems like a better solution (short of a shotgun).

I'd love to hear from others that use their AR rifles as a self defense weapon in their homes...

Thanks!

It has already been addressed, but I'll join the choir:

• The terminal effects of a 5.56x45mm dwarf those of any common defensive handgun round.
• Hitting with a rifle is much easier.
• AR holds more rounds.
• You can put more rounds of 5.56 on the target faster than you can a handgun.
• Penetration in building materials with 5.56 is significantly less than the same for pistol rounds.
• It's not that hard to maneuver an AR in close quarters once you learn how to do it, but it's a moot issue if you post-up in the safest spot in your house and wait for any bad people to come to you.

The right ammo over penetrates less than quality self defense loads for pistols.
No comparison in terminal effect.
Easier to use under stress.

While not getting into the CQB vs home defense, I think the AR is extremely effective in the role of a home defense weapon, assuming the user does his/her part.

Agreed.

In addition to what's above, some people don't intend to go house clearing. Others are well trained in moving and fighting with a rifle. The rifle or pistol or flamethrower (note: I don't recommend this for defending your own home...) is just a tool.

Agree again.

So what do you recommend for home defense rounds for an AR-15 (.223/5.56)? The gun I have designated for home defense has a 1:9 twist, but I also have 1:7 twist guns available. I think I would like to keep the 1:9 for home defense however. I normally shoot 55 gr. through this gun without issues, although I have shot some of the heavier rounds that the 1:7 barrels prefer, and they seemed to shoot fine as well.

M193-spec 55gr FMJ is fine, especially at closer ranges where fragmentation after yawing in tissue is more likely. 68, 69, 75, and 77gr OTM bullets in 5.56 loads work even better because they fragment at lower speeds after yawing in tissue. The 75gr Hornady Tap ammo is excellent for defensive use, but you'd want to test it in your rifle to see if it will stabilize it (in case you need to shoot at longer distance). Some 1 in 9 barrels will and some won't.

If you need to penetrate intermediate barriers (less likely in home defense), you may want to make a different choice. The Cor-Bon loads with the all copper hp work well according to our friends and colleagues at DTI.

I actually have zero official training on the AR platform, just YouTube (!!!), and times at the range with buddies that are better acquainted with the platform than I am. I would love to take some tactical rifle training sometime. I need to start looking now for something in the Spring as the weather starts to warm.

That would be a good idea. Even if you choose to not use a rifle for defense, you would have a better foundation for making your decision.

 

[rhino]

My reasons concern my wife, 4 yr old son, and 7 week old daughters hearing. Hearing damage is damage and one will never get it back. I have fired pistol rounds indoors with no hearing protection and I can still function while doing so. Firing a .223/5.56 outside is painful for me. I can't imagine firing it indoors with my wife and kids being subject to that hearing damage. I'll take my chances with my low pressure 45ACP rounds from my 1911. Those are manageable.

I understand people in war fire rifle rounds all the time with no hearing protection. But then again none of them come back with the same hearing. My cousin served 3 tours and hes pretty just deaf in one ear and has half his hearing in the other. This is the same reason I will never carry 357 magnum rounds. The muzzle blast/report is painful and causes me to wince and close my eyes. I already have hearing damage and don't want to make it worse than it has to.

This is why people who keep rifles for defense often keep electronic ear protection with it. You can also use a silencer (aka supressor) and hearing protection.

 

[iChokePeople]

This is why people who keep rifles for defense often keep electronic ear protection with it. You can also use a silencer (aka supressor) and hearing protection.

I know people scoff at the idea of putting on hearing protection in this kind of situation, but I plan on it, and I run a can on what I'd consider my "primary" HD gun. Plan so that you'll get some warning of an intrusion, whether that's alarms, cameras, dogs, legos, whatever and IF IT'S POSSIBLE, get that ear pro on -- it has the additional benefit of making me hear EVERYTHING better. In my OLD house that was a little older and creakier, it was crazy how much I could hear with my electronic hearing protection on.

Back on topic, the rhino put together the most informative, complete post in this thread. Excellent stuff.

 

[Nojoy621]

I love when I hear the argument that an AR isn't good for HD because it's length and then they recommend a shotgun.