Gun rights revoked for no reason in Marion Co.

[Delmar]

Good attorney and a change of venue are needed.

A lot of times change of venue is tough to come by in child custody kinds of things. They like to keep it in the court where the divorce occured for some reason.

 

[Ashkelon]

How did it get into family court in the first place? Family Court is usually reserved for those situations wherein there are multiple issues and seperate cause numbers that can be consolidated. Example: divorce with a chinz and a protective order issue following a domestic.

What a mess. Venue will not change but change of Judge may be possible.

 

[jboritzki]

How did it get into family court in the first place? Family Court is usually reserved for those situations wherein there are multiple issues and seperate cause numbers that can be consolidated. Example: divorce with a chinz and a protective order issue following a domestic.

What a mess. Venue will not change but change of Judge may be possible.

It's all got to do with custody. That is the ex's strategy, to make up stories of dangerous men that have evil guns and threaten poor little single mothers. The ex makes it an issue. It is not an issue in the real world, just in the family court arena and only when she is trying to get custody of our son.

 

[jboritzki]

If any attorneys would like to give me some insight, I think the 2nd Amendment doesn't really govern the state of Indiana, but just congress and the federal government. If I am right, then the judges in Indiana are only bound by the Indiana State Constitution, namely article 1 section 32: The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

Am I correct on this? Maybe there are some private property clauses as well?

 

[Libertarian01]

Jboritzki,

This is just a thought I want to pitch at you, but as you have a better feel for this Judge you are in a better position to know how to "sell" this.

First, thank her for her concern for your sons safety. Explain that you too are very concerned and want to do everything possible to keep accidents from occurring.

Second, ask the judge to reconsider keeping the guns outside of your house. Explain that you will keep all of your guns locked in your respective gun safes.

Now, comes the part where you go above and beyond: Take pictures of the safes! Show the judge just how thick the walls are. Take pictures with a measuring tape! Then take pictures of the combination lock. Show the Judge the lock.

Third, as you don't want you son getting into the gun safes ask the Judge to choose a new combination for each safe! Ask the Judge to send a Sheriff's deputy to reset the combination. Promise the Judge two (2) things: #1) You will not write this combination down anywhere in the home, only you, the deputy and the Judge will know the combination, and; #2) You will never open the safes while your son is in the room! This way there is no statistical chance for him to open the safes. Do the math and multiply all the various numbers to show that there is a 1 in 3,946,238,552 chance for him to "pick the lock."

Fourth, explain to the Judge that should everything stay safe you may ask her in two (2) years to review the decision and loosen it up, but until then you think this is reasonable.

You can also show statistics on home break ins and how you don't think it is unreasonable to want to be able to defend your family and loved ones.

I believe that it won't come to this! Once the Judge sees the safes and understands the combination possibilities she will realize how silly it is to be afraid of a child having access to these weapons.

Do NOT misunderstand me: I entirely disagree with this judges ruling! However, I must consider an old saying, "There is nothing closer to God on earth as a General on a battlefield." Whoever said that forgot about, "...A Judge in a courtroom." In the endgame you are trying to make your ex look like a loon and the judge like an idiot, but you cannot attack the judge directly. Attacking the Judge should be your last option, as you have alternative, potentially productive choices before leaping over the cliff.

Rather, convince the Judge that you are the nice guy willing to be "reasonable." Your ex will then appear to be "unreasonable." Once the judge starts seeing her in this new light everything your ex does and/or says will also be viewed in this light. You win, she looses before you even step in front of the judge!

Heck, you could even offer to take your son to a firearms safety class and ASK the Judges permission to submit his training results to the court. Going over the top on courtesy and reasonableness only makes you look like a good guy and the ex like bat****. (Can I say that???)

Also, you could offer to have a deputy bring your guns to the Judge and have her inspect them. Submit a safety report from the manufacturer showing how the safety works, how they cannot go off if they are dropped, etc.

In short, you are trying to hold the Judges hand and lead her from A - Z illustrating every single detail along the way.

Just my .

Regards,

Doug

 

[rich8483]

sounds like that ex wife of yours was a keeper

 

[Bill of Rights]

The ACLU believes that the 2nd Amendment protects a collective right.



Now, does that mean it's not worth reaching out? Of course not; one is often surprised from what ranks his allies (and enemies) come.

I pray for sanity to re-enter your life soon, jboritzki.

The national ACLU believes that, yes. Check the link I posted.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jboritzki]

Marion County. Nuff said. ISP will NOT revoke your permit based on the information you provided.

I sure hope not, but they have done it in the past.

 

[jboritzki]

Moberly? See my post about fingerprinting. She completely ignored the law in that case. As far as I'm concerned, Republicans are anti-gun scum.

What's she doing in Family Court? I thought she was in Civil Court? She loves to meddle and substitute her judgment for the law, so she'll be happy there.

Oh, Judge, if you're reading, this is an exercise of the First Amendment, that basic right we all have to criticize public officials, so give pause before indulging those retaliatory impulses.

lol, What makes you think she wouldn't just love to revoke my 1st amendment right too? The attempted home invasion from a year ago was my gf's ex husband ( a violent man), but he has only done this once in the 7 years I have been here. The judge actually said that I should just kick my gf and her kids out of the house to prevent it from happening again. Didn't that judge set up something for abused women, domestic violence or something? And her answer is to kick a woman and her children out into the street? Pathetic, moronic answers from a witless control freak. Shame on her.

 

[oldfb]

Criss cross Owen criss cross

How did ex find out you were keeping the gun in the house?

Someone needs to have a very well hidden and secured safe for personal papers and valuables. Inside a box spring behind a false breaker box or something. Until this al gets worked out legally. An afternoon alone in the basement with a demo hammer 4 bags of quickcrete and a quality safe or something else creative but inside your house in a locked safe I am not sure how without a warrant anyone could force u to open and reveal the contents.

Again a welded in gunsafe inside an alarmed vehicle eliminates your son ever seeing the gun in the other locaation.

This flys in the face of many OC advocates but until your son is of age or this order is overturned deeep concealment or unarmed are your primary options. Less than lethal or tasers, bows or blades are the others. If you are having property theft issues your security is too lax. Trained dog in the backyard will keep the punks out of the shed if it isn't backed up to the edge of the property like most are.

There are about 5 seperate ideas I have for you if u want to have a private discussion and I have a reasonable lawyer if you need one in NWI or for anyone else that needs one. Just in case you need one for self defense or family legal issues.J

 

[jboritzki]

Jboritzki,

This is just a thought I want to pitch at you, but as you have a better feel for this Judge you are in a better position to know how to "sell" this.

First, thank her for her concern for your sons safety. Explain that you too are very concerned and want to do everything possible to keep accidents from occurring.

Second, ask the judge to reconsider keeping the guns outside of your house. Explain that you will keep all of your guns locked in your respective gun safes.

Now, comes the part where you go above and beyond: Take pictures of the safes! Show the judge just how thick the walls are. Take pictures with a measuring tape! Then take pictures of the combination lock. Show the Judge the lock.

Third, as you don't want you son getting into the gun safes ask the Judge to choose a new combination for each safe! Ask the Judge to send a Sheriff's deputy to reset the combination. Promise the Judge two (2) things: #1) You will not write this combination down anywhere in the home, only you, the deputy and the Judge will know the combination, and; #2) You will never open the safes while your son is in the room! This way there is no statistical chance for him to open the safes. Do the math and multiply all the various numbers to show that there is a 1 in 3,946,238,552 chance for him to "pick the lock."

Fourth, explain to the Judge that should everything stay safe you may ask her in two (2) years to review the decision and loosen it up, but until then you think this is reasonable.

You can also show statistics on home break ins and how you don't think it is unreasonable to want to be able to defend your family and loved ones.

I believe that it won't come to this! Once the Judge sees the safes and understands the combination possibilities she will realize how silly it is to be afraid of a child having access to these weapons.

Do NOT misunderstand me: I entirely disagree with this judges ruling! However, I must consider an old saying, "There is nothing closer to God on earth as a General on a battlefield." Whoever said that forgot about, "...A Judge in a courtroom." In the endgame you are trying to make your ex look like a loon and the judge like an idiot, but you cannot attack the judge directly. Attacking the Judge should be your last option, as you have alternative, potentially productive choices before leaping over the cliff.

Rather, convince the Judge that you are the nice guy willing to be "reasonable." Your ex will then appear to be "unreasonable." Once the judge starts seeing her in this new light everything your ex does and/or says will also be viewed in this light. You win, she looses before you even step in front of the judge!

Heck, you could even offer to take your son to a firearms safety class and ASK the Judges permission to submit his training results to the court. Going over the top on courtesy and reasonableness only makes you look like a good guy and the ex like batsh!t. (Can I say that???)

Also, you could offer to have a deputy bring your guns to the Judge and have her inspect them. Submit a safety report from the manufacturer showing how the safety works, how they cannot go off if they are dropped, etc.

In short, you are trying to hold the Judges hand and lead her from A - Z illustrating every single detail along the way.

Just my .

Regards,

Doug

I can pretty much tell ya that this won't work with this judge. Honestly, even if it would, I am to the point where I would refuse anything less than my rights. I won't take extra steps to prove that I will be just as afraid of guns in my home as the judge is. I have the right to have them. It is not the judge's place to tell me how many I can have, what room to keep them in, or how to store them. I am not a baby. I am a grown man and I know, without the judge's help, how to be safe and store my own property. Thanks for the suggestion. I think with a reasonable judge something like that may work, but I'm done with being told what to do by this damn court. You know, I have even been told by this court that I was not allowed to let my son ride his 49cc motorcycle because it was too dangerous? I'm just done with being told what to do.

 

[AFA1CY]

Good. Either dump your party, or fix it. Ballard, Brizzi, Moberly, Goldsmith, Lugar, Coats, and hundreds of others, are hostile to gun owners.

So you are calling me "anti-gun scum"?

Your words with no qualifications.

"As far as I'm concerned, Republicans are anti-gun scum."

 

[E5RANGER375]

I can pretty much tell ya that this won't work with this judge. Honestly, even if it would, I am to the point where I would refuse anything less than my rights. I won't take extra steps to prove that I will be just as afraid of guns in my home as the judge is. I have the right to have them. It is not the judge's place to tell me how many I can have, what room to keep them in, or how to store them. I am not a baby. I am a grown man and I know, without the judge's help, how to be safe and store my own property. Thanks for the suggestion. I think with a reasonable judge something like that may work, but I'm done with being told what to do by this damn court. You know, I have even been told by this court that I was not allowed to let my son ride his 49cc motorcycle because it was too dangerous? I'm just done with being told what to do.

yeah good choice!! once you invite "the man" in he might not knock the next time and you might have to shoot someone in the darkness and confusion . isnt no way im inviting the govt into my home either.

 

[jboritzki]

Criss cross Owen criss cross

How did ex find out you were keeping the gun in the house?

Someone needs to have a very well hidden and secured safe for personal papers and valuables. Inside a box spring behind a false breaker box or something. Until this al gets worked out legally. An afternoon alone in the basement with a demo hammer 4 bags of quickcrete and a quality safe or something else creative but inside your house in a locked safe I am not sure how without a warrant anyone could force u to open and reveal the contents.

Again a welded in gunsafe inside an alarmed vehicle eliminates your son ever seeing the gun in the other locaation.

This flys in the face of many OC advocates but until your son is of age or this order is overturned deeep concealment or unarmed are your primary options. Less than lethal or tasers, bows or blades are the others. If you are having property theft issues your security is too lax. Trained dog in the backyard will keep the punks out of the shed if it isn't backed up to the edge of the property like most are.

There are about 5 seperate ideas I have for you if u want to have a private discussion and I have a reasonable lawyer if you need one in NWI or for anyone else that needs one. Just in case you need one for self defense or family legal issues.J

The courts order really is not enforceable. If I want, I can hide the guns from my son so he can't tell his mother when she is grilling him for information. I could lie and say that I have no guns in the house when I really do. I could do that and never have to bother with this issue in court. I don't want to though. This isn't just about me and what has been ordered in my home. It's about every Hoosier's rights. If this judge is not stopped, she will continue to order things like this. She wont' stop at gun rights either. She will take away parental rights, speech rights, property rights, or whatever else she sees fit to deprive us of. She is not the only judge in Marion Co. doing this either. A clear message needs to be sent to the elected officials, the police departments, and the court system that we will not tolerate their abuse of power any longer. They exist to serve us, not rule us. They acquire their power from us and with our consent, not because of us and not because we need to be protected from ourselves. In my opinion, this judge broke the law that she swore to uphold. She violated the restrictions placed on her by the Constitution. She agreed when she swore to uphold the law that she would be governed by that document. She currently ignores the boundaries that are placed before her for the purpose of taking away the rights of the very people that put her in power. The judge is wrong, her order is illegal, and she dares any of us to do anything to stop her.

 

[88GT]

Good. Either dump your party, or fix it. Ballard, Brizzi, Moberly, Goldsmith, Lugar, Coats, and hundreds of others, are hostile to gun owners.

If I knew what group you belonged to, I could say the same about them. You are no credit to your cause, whatever that may be.

 

[E5RANGER375]

The courts order really is not enforceable. If I want, I can hide the guns from my son so he can't tell his mother when she is grilling him for information. I could lie and say that I have no guns in the house when I really do. I could do that and never have to bother with this issue in court. I don't want to though. This isn't just about me and what has been ordered in my home. It's about every Hoosier's rights. If this judge is not stopped, she will continue to order things like this. She wont' stop at gun rights either. She will take away parental rights, speech rights, property rights, or whatever else she sees fit to deprive us of. She is not the only judge in Marion Co. doing this either. A clear message needs to be sent to the elected officials, the police departments, and the court system that we will not tolerate their abuse of power any longer. They exist to serve us, not rule us. They acquire their power from us and with our consent, not because of us and not because we need to be protected from ourselves. In my opinion, this judge broke the law that she swore to uphold. She violated the restrictions placed on her by the Constitution. She agreed when she swore to uphold the law that she would be governed by that document. She currently ignores the boundaries that are placed before her for the purpose of taking away the rights of the very people that put her in power. The judge is wrong, her order is illegal, and she dares any of us to do anything to stop her.

sounds like you got it.

 

[Indy317]

Here is a similar case involving religious freedoms/rights. Basically, a judge said that a son of two divorced Wicca parents can't have their son around anything Wiccan. The ACLU took this case to the appeals court and won.

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/08170503par.pdf

If I were you, I would see if the ACLU will take the case. If they won't, try to find a lawyer, give them a copy of the above, and ask if they believe they can get the court to say you having firearms isn't a danger to the child. The danger issue is what was decided in the above case. The court made some comment about a rights violation argument not something they would get into.

If all else fails, I would go public. At least give this judge some publicity. I also would get a safe, put a gun in it, and be done with it.

 

[rambone]

MOLON LABE, YOUR HONOR!!

 

[Zimm1001]

Local Judges (not all but most) consider themselves demi-gods. From my experience local judges could not care less what the law says. They will order anything they want and say if you do not like it then appeal it. Well that takes a lot of money which most people cannot afford so the ruling stands. I know of one Judge, Duane Huffer of Kosciusko County tells people come into his court Pro Se that he does not like it when people come in pro se because it cheats his fellow attorneys out of a fee. He says this in open court Judges also get quite upset when people do appeal and they get overturned. If you did so and then had to come back into court with this same judge you would probably be go to jail in contempt just because she can send you.

 

[indykid]

The exact reason I never cared to date again after losing my wife to cancer. The laws are all against honest people in these days of political correctness. That judge would probably have had a heart attack if she found out that when my daughter turned 18, she got her pink slip of protection (PSP) from Indiana and a Sig 239 for her birthday.

All my prayers for you getting your rights and life back!