Granger Community Church to become gun free zone.

[critter592]

Just a heads up but if you attend GCC (and you probably already know this) they are going to become a licensed school in the fall offering preschool. This would make it a GFZ. Sucks that one day I'm legal and the next calendar day I'm a felon for carrying. Love the church. Do not like that I will not have otherwise legal means to defend myself.

 

[TaunTaun]

My response would be:

"I'm sorry that you feel you must bow to government rules and regulations on schooling. Unfortunately, that means that my entire family will now have to find a new church. Good luck to you. Remember to pray for their souls as you are being threatened and shot at."

 

[critter592]

Well I don't think they are wanting to be anti-gun. They just want to serve the community more and are expanding. It's the State of Indiana that is causing the change in our rights.

 

[Mike.B]

Our church had considered starting a daycare. If the same entity at different buildings does it change? For example we are planning on building a new chapel and we would do the daycare in the fellowship building.

 

[critter592]

My understanding is that if the same entity owns the property and it adjoins then it's an exclusion to your carry. I'm sure BoR will be along shortly to correct me and lay down some code.


<paging BoR...paging BoR>

 

[Jack Burton]

The pastor or school director can give permission to carry.

 

[protias]

Preschool is not part of the GFSZ.

 

[eldirector]

Preschool is not part of the GFSZ.

In Indiana, yes, it is. All developmental child care programs for pre-k children (pre-school) are part of the "school" definition, and therefor off limits to otherwise legal carry.

 

[protias]

In Indiana, yes, it is. All developmental child care programs for pre-k children (pre-school) are part of the "school" definition, and therefor off limits to otherwise legal carry.

I did not know that. Thanks.

 

[Bill of Rights]

My understanding is that if the same entity owns the property and it adjoins then it's an exclusion to your carry. I'm sure BoR will be along shortly to correct me and lay down some code.


<paging BoR...paging BoR>

Dang pager... have to turn it off at work.

School property includes all buildings they own and the land adjoining or rented in common with the buildings.

Technically, if a school corporation was to buy an indoor gun range, special permission would have to be given to anyone wanting to come shoot there (and anyone coming into the parking lot who exited their car would be an instant felon.)

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property"
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:

(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:

(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
​

(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

Usual disclaimers apply: IANAL, IDPOOTV, IDSIAHIELN, TINLA

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[PA2Ind]

Brings up a concern I had. A lot of churchs have sunday school and are not a gfz. But, they just say xyz church and school. Shouldnt there have to be a sign telling you it qualifies as a gfz?

 

[Bill of Rights]

Brings up a concern I had. A lot of churchs have sunday school and are not a gfz. But, they just say xyz church and school. Shouldnt there have to be a sign telling you it qualifies as a gfz?

No, there shouldn't be a "gun free" zone in the first place, but to answer the question you're really asking, no, there is no requirement in the law that you must break this law knowingly or intentionally. You're expected to know the law.

Personally, I'd love for this to truly be the case, if the law read:
"attempt to create a victim and risk becoming one yourself." or something similar.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Concerned Citizen]

My Church, Connection Pointe Christian Church, has been a GFZ for several years. They have both Sunday School & weekday day care. However, they are very aware of the dangers in this world, & take the safety of their patrons very seriously. At every service are multiple armed, uniformed policemen. It definitely makes me feel better about not being armed.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Just a heads up but if you attend GCC (and you probably already know this) they are going to become a licensed school in the fall offering preschool. This would make it a GFZ. Sucks that one day I'm legal and the next calendar day I'm a felon for carrying. Love the church. Do not like that I will not have otherwise legal means to defend myself.

You still have other legal means to defend yourself!

 

[Mr. Habib]

My church has an unlicensed daycare. I have carried there without issue for several years now. They recently changed insurance carriers to save money. The new insurance company is requiring them to not allow anyone to carry without completion of a crisis management class and authorization by the church board. I would be able to do this if I chose to, instead, I will choose to worship somewhere else. A church that puts money ahead of the safety of its congregates is not one that I choose to worship in. Ironically, taking my tithe to a different church will more than offset their savings from their insurance premium.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Dang pager... have to turn it off at work.

School property includes all buildings they own and the land adjoining or rented in common with the buildings.

Technically, if a school corporation was to buy an indoor gun range, special permission would have to be given to anyone wanting to come shoot there (and anyone coming into the parking lot who exited their car would be an instant felon.)



Usual disclaimers apply: IANAL, IDPOOTV, IDSIAHIELN, TINLA

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Bill

Since this thread is about Churches who also have schools, I have a hypothetical question.

What if a church decides to open a school, but erects a separate building, on a separate property. Lets say that both properties share a common property line, but are still separate parcels of land. The school does not use the church property for any functions, but both properties are owned by "XXX Christian Church."

I have seen several church/school properties set up this way. The church has its own parking lot, and the school, which is right next door in a different building, has its own parking lot. What are your opinions of carrying on the church property? Is this a grey area?

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

My response would be:

"I'm sorry that you feel you must bow to government rules and regulations on schooling. Unfortunately, that means that my entire family will now have to find a new church. Good luck to you. Remember to pray for their souls as you are being threatened and shot at."

It's actually not the Church's fault. They are simply wanting to offer what is likely a better education than public school systems which I applaud. It's the government's fault we can't exercise our rights.

"Shall not be infringed"

Usual disclaimers apply: IANAL, IDPOOTV, IDSIAHIELN, TINLA

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Bill

It might if I spoke jibberish!

 

[jedi]

Our church had considered starting a daycare. If the same entity at different buildings does it change? For example we are planning on building a new chapel and we would do the daycare in the fellowship building.

Depends on how the property is classified.
See more below.

My understanding is that if the same entity owns the property and it adjoins then it's an exclusion to your carry. I'm sure BoR will be along shortly to correct me and lay down some code.

<paging BoR...paging BoR>

Again depends on how the property is classifed.
See more below.

Since this thread is about Churches who also have schools, I have a hypothetical question.

What if a church decides to open a school, but erects a separate building, on a separate property. Lets say that both properties share a common property line, but are still separate parcels of land. The school does not use the church property for any functions, but both properties are owned by "XXX Christian Church."

I have seen several church/school properties set up this way. The church has its own parking lot, and the school, which is right next door in a different building, has its own parking lot. What are your opinions of carrying on the church property? Is this a grey area?

Here is a post where I found an answer for your question which is very similar to the one I had.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...self_defense/76519-where_does_school_end.html

The answer comes down to how is the land zoned? In the case in that link the entire block is zoned as part of the school/church so that entire block is off limits. Now the block across the street only 1/4 of it is zoned to the church/school and the rest is zoned as the town park. So you can carry LEGALLY in the park but as soon as you try to use the monkey bars which belong to the town but happen to be on the "side of the zone that was given to the school/church" you are now an instant felon since you have broken the law.

so it's going to come down to zoning and most towns/cities will just lump all that property into one entry (ie. church property).

-Jedi

 

[Titanium_Frost]

First, I want to say that my Father-in-Law is a pastor, and I shoot with my Pastor every month at IDPA and often at Owensboro Multigun so I think I'm covered even IF either one sets up a daycare.

Second, Sunday School is NOT a school per Indiana Law.

Third, I think it would be a very good idea to put together ALL of the threads in which we have discussed this very issue over the years and send them to our Elected Officials and tell them something needs done about the ridiculousness and ambiguity with this law. There are potentially hundreds or even thousands of normally law-abiding Hoosiers that are unknowingly commiting felonies while not actually doing anything that we generally believe is wrong, i.e. hurting someone. Simply POSSESSING a weapon does not constitute a willingness to use it in an unlawful manner and having laws to that affect do NOTHING to prevent crimes being commited with them.

 

[jedi]

Second, Sunday School is NOT a school per Indiana Law.

Agree but a warning for you.
A church with any type of educational program for children could be considered a "school"
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...0-no_gun_at_church_anymore-3.html#post1695802

-Jedi