Glock switch language

[ESSEX]

IMPD sent this email to all news outlets this afternoon. So you will most likely hear reporters, anchors and the like using the following language.


Good afternoon. I wanted to share with you IMPD is planning to use the term “Machine Gun Conversion Device” when referring to the devices that convert semi-automatic guns to automatic gun (machine guns). This terminology covers the variety of devices that serve that purpose and it describes what the device is/does (as opposed to “switch” or “sear”). Additionally, Glock does not make “Glock switches” so, while they are used on Glock handguns, it can potentially be misleading to use their name when referring to the specific device.



Please see the attached fact sheet from the ATF regarding these terms. As we educate people about this terminology, we may say “commonly referred to as a Glock switch” or something like that so people understand these terms.

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

Does that mean they are not calling it the 'giggle switch' on the news?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[KellyinAvon]

IMPD sent this email to all news outlets this afternoon. So you will most likely hear reporters, anchors and the like using the following language.


Good afternoon. I wanted to share with you IMPD is planning to use the term “Machine Gun Conversion Device” when referring to the devices that convert semi-automatic guns to automatic gun (machine guns). This terminology covers the variety of devices that serve that purpose and it describes what the device is/does (as opposed to “switch” or “sear”). Additionally, Glock does not make “Glock switches” so, while they are used on Glock handguns, it can potentially be misleading to use their name when referring to the specific device.



Please see the attached fact sheet from the ATF regarding these terms. As we educate people about this terminology, we may say “commonly referred to as a Glock switch” or something like that so people understand these terms.

An MGCD? I like it! That is much more accurate as to what these devices actually do.

Glock does make handguns. Semi-automatic handguns with the exception of the Glock 18 (selective fire version of the Glock 17 full sized 9mm. An MGCD makes it a machine gun, not a selective-fire weapon.) If this thread devolves into a Glock v 1911 argument? That is par for the INGO course.

Not all handguns are Glocks. Much like all black long guns are not AR-15s.

Speaking as a staff member here at INGO: If ANYONE attempted to sell an MGCD here? They would be banned for life from this site. Banned for life because that's as long as we can ban someone.

 

[indykid]

Do they refer to them as illegally banned constitutionally legal devices?

 

[2tonic]

Does that mean they are not calling it the 'giggle switch' on the news?

That's right. From now on the "giggle switch" shall be referred to as the "personal vibrator".

That is all.

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

Do they refer to them as illegally banned constitutionally legal devices?

Nice catch all phrase. Better patent it before the ATF hears it or that will be the next rule name to make more people felons.

 

[manifest destiny]

I was curious how long it would take Glock (TM) to request/demand their name not be associated with a device they don't manufacture. To me, the term MGCD seems reasonable. A few more syllables, but more accurate descriptor. Now if IMPD would quit using the term "illegal gun" to describe guns found in the possession of illegal possessors... On a different note, I think ESSEX has contributed to this site in a very positive way in his limited time as a member.

 

[bwframe]

Glad to see that we are getting this language right...

It looks like these gadgets are here to stay, without much penalty or prosecutorial enforcement.

Almost like the more prevalent these MGCD's are the easier it is to make all pistols the problem???

.

 

[hooky]

Glad to see that we are getting this language right...

It looks like these gadgets are here to stay, without much penalty or prosecutorial enforcement.

Almost like the more prevalent these MGCD's are the easier it is to make all pistols the problem???

.

The plans to 3D print this stuff are all out in the wild. You can't stop the signal.

Gun control and regulations, in the way they've traditionally approached it at least, is dead.

 

[bwframe]

The plans to 3D print this stuff are all out in the wild. You can't stop the signal.

Gun control and regulations, in the way they've traditionally approached it at least, is dead.

The anti's are building the narrative, with folks like Ryan Mears and Joe Hogsett leading the way.

"We" let them get away with this, then join into the negative narrative to gun owners ourselves...

..."gun violence"
..."assault weapon"
..."assault pistol"
...“Machine Gun Conversion Device”

Next thing you know, we are not only fighting for our Second Amendment rights, we are fighting a generation of naive folks just wanting "common sense gun laws" and "gun safety laws." We all know what that really is, but a lot of them don't and they don't care to do anything other than repeat the narrative.


.

 

[tgeorge21]

This makes sense. It's important to distinguish the offending modification from the gun. The glock itsself is not illegal, the mod is.

 

[jason867]

Speaking as a staff member here at INGO: If ANYONE attempted to sell an MGCD here? They would be banned for life from this site. Banned for life because that's as long as we can ban someone.

Even if it was legally made/registered with the NFA before 1986, and all NFA laws followed in the sale of it?

Not Glock compatible ones, cause they're all post 1986. But like registered AR15 DIAS's, lightening links, H&K FA trigger packs, etc?

INGO still has an NFA classifieds sub-forum, right?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Even if it was legally made/registered with the NFA before 1986, and all NFA laws followed in the sale of it?

Not Glock compatible ones, cause they're all post 1986. But like registered AR15 DIAS's, lightening links, H&K FA trigger packs, etc?

INGO still has an NFA classifieds sub-forum, right?

So how many of these were made pre-ban? You're comparing Ice Cream to Tuesday.

Also, INGO has something called Rule #9

9. No sales of anything unlawful. This includes such things as suppressors and SBR/SBS unless you have an FFL to permit such, and the buyer is to obtain a tax stamp on it. It also includes but is not limited to alcohol or anything else requiring licensing to lawfully sell. As "trades" are a gray area, we are going to err on the side of caution and disallow that also. If you have a question, please PM a mod and ask. INGO is the conduit by which you make contact with each other, and the responsibility for compliance with applicable law falls upon you, the buyer, and you, the seller.

 

[jason867]

So how many of these were made pre-ban? You're comparing Ice Cream to Tuesday.

Also, INGO has something called Rule #9

9. No sales of anything unlawful. This includes such things as suppressors and SBR/SBS unless you have an FFL to permit such, and the buyer is to obtain a tax stamp on it. It also includes but is not limited to alcohol or anything else requiring licensing to lawfully sell. As "trades" are a gray area, we are going to err on the side of caution and disallow that also. If you have a question, please PM a mod and ask. INGO is the conduit by which you make contact with each other, and the responsibility for compliance with applicable law falls upon you, the buyer, and you, the seller.

I don't know how many were made pre-ban, but I'd wager not enough.

Sorry, it sounded like you were making a blanket statement prohibiting the sale of legal NFA items. I mentioned NFA laws being followed, this implies going through a FFL dealer that can do NFA items. I would assume the owner would advertise here, accept an offer, and then do all the NFA legal stuff through an appropriate FFL dealer.

If I am mistaken, i am sorry and await correction.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I don't know how many were made pre-ban, but I'd wager not enough.

Sorry, it sounded like you were making a blanket statement prohibiting the sale of legal NFA items. I mentioned NFA laws being followed, this implies going through a FFL dealer that can do NFA items. I would assume the owner would advertise here, accept an offer, and then do all the NFA legal stuff through an appropriate FFL dealer.

If I am mistaken, i am sorry and await correction.

We are monitored by a certain 3-letter agency. This site provides way more than a classifieds section and will not be put at risk.

LEOs here on INGO have commented on the numbers of these ILLEGAL devices (which is what we are discussing here, not pre-ban UZIs) and there is/are bill(s) moving forward at the Statehouse (HB 1365 passed the House today.) These are not only illegal at the Federal level, but probably will be in Indiana at the State level before 1 July.

Want to sell a suppressor? A pre-ban Uzi? A Thompson SMG from the Prohibition era? We have a sub-forum in the classifieds (with it's own set of rules.)

Want to sell something ILLEGAL? Not here.

Again, the subject being discussed is ILLEGAL devices.

 

[Denny347]

I was curious how long it would take Glock (TM) to request/demand their name not be associated with a device they don't manufacture. To me, the term MGCD seems reasonable. A few more syllables, but more accurate descriptor. Now if IMPD would quit using the term "illegal gun" to describe guns found in the possession of illegal possessors... On a different note, I think ESSEX has contributed to this site in a very positive way in his limited time as a member.

I don't understand the consternation regarding the term "illegal gun". Can guns be "illegal"? Sure. Ser# removed, modified gun to full auto, etc. Guns that the only recourse is destruction. They are illegal to exist, let alone possess. Is it overused? Sure. But it is a distinction that few people outside of these forums understand or care about. IMPD is using common vernacular used across the US in political, law enforcement, and media. It's just not that deep.

 

[jason867]

We are monitored by a certain 3-letter agency. This site provides way more than a classifieds section and will not be put at risk.

LEOs here on INGO have commented on the numbers of these ILLEGAL devices (which is what we are discussing here, not pre-ban UZIs) and there is/are bill(s) moving forward at the Statehouse (HB 1365 passed the House today.) These are not only illegal at the Federal level, but probably will be in Indiana at the State level before 1 July.

Want to sell a suppressor? A pre-ban Uzi? A Thompson SMG from the Prohibition era? We have a sub-forum in the classifieds (with it's own set of rules.)

Want to sell something ILLEGAL? Not here.

Again, the subject being discussed is ILLEGAL devices.

Once again, you make it sound like all auto-sears, switches, etc, are all illegal.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are legal ones (not Glock ones though), registered before 86, that can be legally sold, as long as one follows the specific NFA laws to do so.

Are the legal ones likely to be advertised for sale here? Probably not I assume. I would guess auctions would get most of that business.

The question I'm trying to get you to answer is:
Hypothetically, could a legal owner advertise for sale here, their 100% legal NFA registered-before-86 DIAS/LLink/switch/etc, provided they follow the NFA law and do the extra FBI/ATF background check stuff at an NFA FFL dealer?

Or does INGO flat-out prohibit this category of legal NFA items?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Once again, you make it sound like all auto-sears, switches, etc, are all illegal.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are legal ones (not Glock ones though), registered before 86, that can be legally sold, as long as one follows the specific NFA laws to do so.

Are the legal ones likely to be advertised for sale here? Probably not I assume. I would guess auctions would get most of that business.

The question I'm trying to get you to answer is:
Hypothetically, could a legal owner advertise for sale here, their 100% legal NFA registered-before-86 DIAS/LLink/switch/etc, provided they follow the NFA law and do the extra FBI/ATF background check stuff at an NFA FFL dealer?

Or does INGO flat-out prohibit this category of legal NFA items?

First off, look at the subject of THIS thread. Read the OP, read my reply in that context.

Aside from that, we are done here. Link to the classifieds rules are below.

WTS: - The Rules of the INGO Classifieds! -> You MUST READ before posting!

In order to participate in the classifieds section, (post in the Market Place and use the conversation/PM system) you must have a quality post count of 50 or more. Businesses (sponsors, FFLs, etc) need to be an advertiser or Local Business supporter. You can also bypass the 50 posts by BECOMING...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[manifest destiny]

I don't understand the consternation regarding the term "illegal gun". Can guns be "illegal"? Sure. Ser# removed, modified gun to full auto, etc. Guns that the only recourse is destruction. They are illegal to exist, let alone possess. Is it overused? Sure. But it is a distinction that few people outside of these forums understand or care about. IMPD is using common vernacular used across the US in political, law enforcement, and media. It's just not that deep.

I agree fully with your sentiment. I also think the word consternation is fair and fitting of my view of the term "illegal gun". The highlighted is my main issue. I believe the term does misrepresent the situation to those outside of these forums. It presents the problem as the gun not the person. Those not that deep into the nuances of guns may come to view the problem as the gun. I'd prefer they care about the criminal, not the gun. I note that when other weapons are involved they are referred to as weapons. Not illegal knives, illegal nunchaku, etc.