Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man part II

[jamil]

Pathology expert now testifying that the drugs reduced amount of o2 in his system. Died of arterial clogging during the restraint.

The bonfires are gonna get wild.

His testimony did not help all that much in the end. All that buildup on what all could have contributed to Floyd’s death and the punchline is, uh. Idunno

If anything the defense witness contributed to the eggshell precedent. Not that I think Chauvin was going to be acquitted anyway, but by trying to throw more doubt into the mix the expert witness justified the restraint as a potential cause of death.

 

[KLB]

Why?

If such a person poses less of a threat to society with the restrictions than without, then freedom with restrictions is better than the alternative.

How are they less of a threat? The restrictions don't stop them from doing anything.

Either the person is perceived to be a threat or he isn't.

Once a person has paid their "debt" to society, they should return as a full member of that society.

 

[DadSmith]

How are they less of a threat? The restrictions don't stop them from doing anything.

Either the person is perceived to be a threat or he isn't.

Once a person has paid their "debt" to society, they should return as a full member of that society.

And if they are murderers or violent felons they should have been put to death not released back into society to do it again. However, liberals have destroyed the justice system and that is why when a none violent felon does his time he still stays a felon. The justice system is broken. Back in the day murderers were hung or shot, as were violent felons. Some did hard labor for the rest of their lives. Now days everyone gets a pass unless you murder a federal official.

 

[Jaybird1980]

And if they are murderers or violent felons they should have been put to death not released back into society to do it again. However, liberals have destroyed the justice system and that is why when a none violent felon does his time he still stays a felon. The justice system is broken. Back in the day murderers were hung or shot, as were violent felons. Some did hard labor for the rest of their lives. Now days everyone gets a pass unless you murder a federal official.

I don't totally agree with this. I do agree with the statement that the justice system is broken, which is exactly why I can't agree that anyone found guilty of murder gets put to death or never released. Chauvin, Rittenhouse and many others may very well end up with a murder conviction. Do they really deserve life/death sentence

 

[nonobaddog]

How are they less of a threat? The restrictions don't stop them from doing anything.

Either the person is perceived to be a threat or he isn't.

Once a person has paid their "debt" to society, they should return as a full member of that society.

Restrictions are intended to stop them from doing the restricted activities, giving them a chance to hopefully do better, more legal activities and reintegrate.

They have not completed their debt to society. A graduated release is frequently used in the release process. First is full incarceration, then partial release(restrictions), then full release.

If you want to limit all penalties to only full incarceration you are taking away the partial release options. Everything would be black and white - full incarceration or nothing.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Restrictions are intended to stop them from doing the restricted activities, giving them a chance to hopefully do better, more legal activities and reintegrate.

They have not completed their debt to society. A graduated release is frequently used in the release process. First is full incarceration, then partial release(restrictions), then full release.

If you want to limit all penalties to only full incarceration you are taking away the partial release options. Everything would be black and white - full incarceration or nothing.

In practice this turns into a de facto permanent second-class citizenship.

This has expanded sufficiently over time (in addition to felonizing more and more behaviors) to reasonably suggest we are on our way to a neo-feudal society.

 

[nonobaddog]

In practice this turns into a de facto permanent second-class citizenship.

What would you call the prison population?

 

[KLB]

Restrictions are intended to stop them from doing the restricted activities, giving them a chance to hopefully do better, more legal activities and reintegrate.

They have not completed their debt to society. A graduated release is frequently used in the release process. First is full incarceration, then partial release(restrictions), then full release.

If you want to limit all penalties to only full incarceration you are taking away the partial release options. Everything would be black and white - full incarceration or nothing.

I am guessing you are referring to probation?

Convicted felons never get a "full release". They are tagged thus the rest of their lives, with restrictions on voting, owning guns, and other things.

 

[Kutnupe14]

What would you call the prison population?

People paying their debt to society. Once they pass through those gates, back into the world, why should they have reduced rights?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

People paying their debt to society. Once they pass through those gates, back into the world, why should they have reduced rights?

So no parole or probation? All sentences served to the max, incarcerated?

 

[DadSmith]

I don't totally agree with this. I do agree with the statement that the justice system is broken, which is exactly why I can't agree that anyone found guilty of murder gets put to death or never released. Chauvin, Rittenhouse and many others may very well end up with a murder conviction. Do they really deserve life/death sentence

That is up to the jury of 12.

 

[jamil]

How are they less of a threat? The restrictions don't stop them from doing anything.

Either the person is perceived to be a threat or he isn't.

Once a person has paid their "debt" to society, they should return as a full member of that society.

I don’t disagree with the last statement.

 

[Jaybird1980]

That is up to the jury of 12.

I have less and less faith everyday.

 

[DadSmith]

I have less and less faith everyday.

That's because the justice system along with the morality of our country is in disarray.

 

[jamil]

In practice this turns into a de facto permanent second-class citizenship.

This has expanded sufficiently over time (in addition to felonizing more and more behaviors) to reasonably suggest we are on our way to a neo-feudal society.

Not permanent. We’re talking about how it SHOULD be. You might say, just execute people you think are a threat because they committed a violent crime. My preference would be to place restrictions on the person once they’ve paid their just penalties, and if the court deems them a potential threat it restricts the person however. Of course the person can just ignore them. But then there is a reason to lock them up again. Similar to what they do with sex offenders.

 

[nonobaddog]

People paying their debt to society. Once they pass through those gates, back into the world, why should they have reduced rights?

Yeah, we covered that.
So obviously you would be for paying that debt by full incarceration only. No programs of partial release while paying that debt - full lock up or nothing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yeah, we covered that.
So obviously you would be for paying that debt by full incarceration only. No programs of partial release while paying that debt - full lock up or nothing.

You can put them on parole or probation, with the caveat that if they commit some other crime, they get the rest of their sentence, but depriving them of their rights? No. Are there people who aren’t deserving of their ability to defend themselves who are walking around in everyday life?

 

[nonobaddog]

You can put them on parole or probation, with the caveat that if they commit some other crime, they get the rest of their sentence, but depriving them of their rights? No. Are there people who aren’t deserving of their ability to defend themselves who are walking around in everyday life?

Well, it seems that is how the justice system has evolved.

How do you feel about restraining orders? That is about the same thing, people that are under restrictions in certain areas but not all areas. Maybe they should be locked up and no restraining orders ever used.

 

[DadSmith]

You can put them on parole or probation, with the caveat that if they commit some other crime, they get the rest of their sentence, but depriving them of their rights? No. Are there people who aren’t deserving of their ability to defend themselves who are walking around in everyday life?

I believe the 2nd Amendment says shall not be infringed.

If a person is a murderer, or so violent that they should not own a firearm they should be hung by the neck until dead or put to hard labor for the rest of their lives. As for those who do serve their full sentence in prison once out they should have their rights restored.
I do not believe in parole system at all.

OMG I agree with Kut....

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, it seems that is how the justice system has evolved.

How do you feel about restraining orders? That is about the same thing, people that are under restrictions in certain areas but not all areas. Maybe they should be locked up and no restraining orders ever used.

Restraining orders are essentially “do not harass” reminders.