Four Minneapolis officers fired after death of black man part II

[nonobaddog]

I thought OJ was guilty. I didn’t think they had proven his guilt. I thought Zimmerman was guilty. I didn’t think they proved his guilt either. It seems to me, that whenever a trial goes against what people want to believe, the verdict was arrived due to corrupt motives.

Could be. It also seems to me that whenever a verdict is determined by corruption it frequently goes against what other trial observers believe.

 

[Leadeye]

Rural Idaho or Montana?

Nice country.

 

[nonobaddog]

Nice country.

Definitely. It is very tempting to go there but then I think about the process of moving - yuck. But it is still on the table.

 

[jamil]

I can understand but I see that much in the same way as arguing that the guy standing amidships jumping up and down on the deck caused the Titanic to break in two while sinking.

I don’t think the prosecution has effectively established that the restraint was the cause of death beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s very possible that the drugs caused him to lose consciousness. But then, how much did Chauvin’s continual restraint contribute to Floyd’s death? Is it policy for officers to continue to kneel on the person after they become unresponsive? I think that opens up the possibility of a reasonable guilty verdict on 2nd degree manslaughter. The other two, not so much. On the one they have to prove depravity, on the other they have to prove Chauvin knew he was assaulting Floyd and did it anyway.

 

[jamil]

I don't see how anyone could find that after the prosecution witness on use of force pretty much debunked it.

The sergeant from LA? I watched that whole thing and I didn’t see any such thing debunked.

 

[foszoe]

I don’t think the prosecution has effectively established that the restraint was the cause of death beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s very possible that the drugs caused him to lose consciousness. But then, how much did Chauvin’s continual restraint contribute to Floyd’s death? Is it policy for officers to continue to kneel on the person after they become unresponsive? I think that opens up the possibility of a reasonable guilty verdict on 2nd degree manslaughter. The other two, not so much. On the one they have to prove depravity, on the other they have to prove Chauvin knew he was assaulting Floyd and did it anyway.

Will there ever be "the" cause of death though? It seems more like there are contributors to death, paralleling comorbidities.

 

[JCSR]

Will there ever be "the" cause of death though? It seems more like there are contributors to death, paralleling comorbidities.

In the UK this is a possibility. Not in the US

In the United Kingdom a death by misadventure, as recorded by coroners and on death certificates and associated documents, is one that is primarily attributed to an accident that occurred due to a risk that was taken voluntarily. In contrast, when a cause of death is listed as an accident rather than a misadventure, this implies no unreasonable willful risk.[1] Misadventure is a legally defined manner of death: a way by which an actual cause of death (trauma, exposure, etc.) was allowed to occur. For example, a death caused by an illicit drug overdose may be ruled a death by misadventure, as the user took the risk of drug usage voluntarily. Misadventure is a form of unnatural death, a category that also includes accident, suicide, and homicide.

 

[jamil]

Will there ever be "the" cause of death though? It seems more like there are contributors to death, paralleling comorbidities.

At best, yeah, both contributed. But I doubt we’ll even get to that. Chauvin’s 140lbs. His knee wasn’t even directly on the neck. I think the cause of death was the drugs, but I also think it may have been possible to save Floyd if they’d have administered aid as soon as he became unresponsive. So in terms of responsibility, does that make Chauvin guilty of any of the 3 charges? Maybe the 2nd degree manslaughter.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don’t think the prosecution has effectively established that the restraint was the cause of death beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s very possible that the drugs caused him to lose consciousness. But then, how much did Chauvin’s continual restraint contribute to Floyd’s death? Is it policy for officers to continue to kneel on the person after they become unresponsive? I think that opens up the possibility of a reasonable guilty verdict on 2nd degree manslaughter. The other two, not so much. On the one they have to prove depravity, on the other they have to prove Chauvin knew he was assaulting Floyd and did it anyway.

At the end of the day it comes down to this for me; would Floyd still be alive if the incident with the officers hadn’t occurred if you say “no” Chauvin walks. If you say “yes” Chauvin is guilty.

 

[jamil]

What about 'twelve good men and true' who will have to go home and live in the community if they acquit and are likely worried their names will get out if they do

This is the reason I really suspect that this jury can’t render any verdict that acquits Chauvin. I don’t think it’s possible in any Blue state to get a fair trial for a case like this. Too many woke activists willing to commit terrorism for the cause.

 

[nonobaddog]

At best, yeah, both contributed. But I doubt we’ll even get to that. Chauvin’s 140lbs. His knee wasn’t even directly on the neck. I think the cause of death was the drugs, but I also think it may have been possible to save Floyd if they’d have administered aid as soon as he became unresponsive. So in terms of responsibility, does that make Chauvin guilty of any of the 3 charges? Maybe the 2nd degree manslaughter.

I bet if they would have given Floyd naloxone he would be alive today - but there was no way to know that.

 

[nonobaddog]

At the end of the day it comes down to this for me; would Floyd still be alive if the incident with the officers hadn’t occurred if you say “no” Chauvin walks. If you say “yes” Chauvin is guilty.

I bet if they would have given Floyd naloxone he would be alive today - but there was no way to know that.

 

[Leadeye]

Definitely. It is very tempting to go there but then I think about the process of moving - yuck. But it is still on the table.

Southern Indiana where I live is great, and I've not observed any BLM presence in towns like Jasper.

 

[jamil]

I bet if they would have given Floyd naloxone he would be alive today - but there was no way to know that.

I try to put myself in that place, and if it were me, I’m pretty sure I’d have strongly suspected that he was on something. I guess after watching the videos and listening to the testimony, though it’s not the same as being in the situation personally, I want the officers to have asked him what he took. Let him know he needs to tell them so that they can get him the right help.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is the reason I really suspect that this jury can’t render any verdict that acquits Chauvin. I don’t think it’s possible in any Blue state to get a fair trial for a case like this. Too many woke activists willing to commit terrorism for the cause.

And yet plenty of people have walked in Blue states. Philando Castile for instance. History does not support your premise.

 

[nonobaddog]

This is the reason I really suspect that this jury can’t render any verdict that acquits Chauvin. I don’t think it’s possible in any Blue state to get a fair trial for a case like this. Too many woke activists willing to commit terrorism for the cause.

I have to agree with this. I don't want to but it is most likely the truth.

It will be interesting to see how long the jury deliberates. Even one activist can hold up everything trying to get their way.

 

[nonobaddog]

And yet plenty of people have walked in Blue states. Philando Castile for instance. History does not support your premise.

Irrelevant - because BLM was not rioting at that point, which was years ago, and had not burned, damaged and destroyed 700 buildings in the same city and threatening to do lots more. This climate is completely different now in Minneapolis.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Irrelevant - because BLM was not rioting at that point, which was years ago, and had not burned, damaged and destroyed 700 buildings in the same city and threatening to do lots more. This climate is completely different now in Minneapolis.

This is false.

 

[jsharmon7]

At the end of the day it comes down to this for me; would Floyd still be alive if the incident with the officers hadn’t occurred if you say “no” Chauvin walks. If you say “yes” Chauvin is guilty.

I’m not sold that it’s so simple as this. Do you think any of the force used by Chauvin or any other officer was proper? From the time he was initially put in handcuffs until the time he was put on the stretcher, was any part of it acceptable use of force?

 

[nonobaddog]

This is false.