Finally got my own lathe...

[CountryBoy19]

I've been looking for a deal on a lathe for a while now and found a 14X48 southbend I liked on craigslist. I called my dad to see if he would help me move it if I bought it and he told me to wait. He said there was an auction coming up where they were selling the last Southbend lathe from my high-school shop class. It's a 9X42 model A with the quick change gears and the cabinet/stand. The ways look pretty good, 1 tooth missing off the high-speed headstock gear but that's not a major deal. It didn't come with much tooling, but it did come with the taper-turning attachment and thread-dial which are 2 big pluses for me. I figured it was worth $500; I bought it for $340 + the cost of a single-phase motor (don't know what that is just yet but can't be too bad for a small lathe).

I would have liked to have a bit larger lathe, but I'm happy with my purchase. This will fit in my garage much better than a 14X48. I can probably do 90% of what I would want to do on this lathe. I can patiently wait for a larger garage and larger budget for that other 10%.

Projects you can expect from me in the future (next couple years).

Sig 556 SBR in 300 BLK
Oversize .22lr suppressor for my Spikes ST22
Possibly an integral Ruger 22/45, but I may decided to just go with a .22 can and thread the 22/45 barrel.
Maybe a .223 can, but that's a big maybe.

Update: 8/14/12
I discovered that it's not a 9X42, but rather a 10K with the 3 1/2' bed. The 10k was built on the frame of the 9" lathes but the headstock, tailstock, and compound rest are all slightly higher to give a 10" swing. So basically it's 9" lathe for all intensive purposes but it can handle a slightly larger swing which does no benefit for gunsmithing, but still good to have "slightly better". I also discovered that the taper attachment alone is worth much more than I paid for the whole lathe. Which should offset the motor replacement. Speaking of which, I asked my dad to go to the local electric motor shop and buy me a 1/2 Hp 110V motor that can be reversed. He didn't exactly do that, what he did do was go to the shop, tell them I wanted a 1/2 Hp 110V electric motor wired with a reversing switch on it. So what I got was a motor with a bunch of extra wires and switches I had to remove. The motor was $170, the extras were $120. I only wanted the motor. With all the extras it created extra work & expenses for me. I ended up removing the switch because I liked the factory switch better (it was already mounted on the lathe in a convenient spot) and I had to made a lot of changes to get the wiring they installed to work with the existing set-up. I know dad was trying to do me a favor, but he made my life harder and cost me an extra $120. He did take the switch back home with him so he could ask if they would take it back. That will save me $40 of that $120, but the wiring job they did was NOT worth $80. I had to pretty much redo it because the insulation was cut/stripped/missing in places it shouldn't be, looked to me like somebody was a bit careless when stripping the outer sheath off the wire.

Started tearing her apart last night. I had planned to just use her as she sat, but excessive backlash in the cross-feed led me to perform exploratory surgery. #1 thing to mention is that some retard (this came from a HS shop class) welded the ball-crank retaining nuts in place. Those are used to adjust the back-lash in the cross-feed and compound-feed. Upon closer inspection I discovered that the retaining nut on the compound was on back-wards which is why the compound had a lot of backlash as well. I was able to use a dremel to remove most of the crappy weld and a nice whack to the nut with a punch knocked it free. Needed new nuts anyways, so may as well get them out that way vs ruining the ball cranks. Pulled it all apart and everything looked nice and cruddy inside. Compound rest was actually in pretty good shape, about 2 hrs cleaning gunk out and put it back together and it's smooth as butter. I won't be able to measure backlash until I get the new retaining nuts (ordered today for $9 ea).

The cross-feed is another story. The brass nut is almost completely stripped and the feed-screw is heavily worn. Compared to the rest of the lathe I don't see how this is possible. The lathe has been used VERY lightly since it was new in '72 (my dad confirmed that this is one of the lathe's he used for shop class in the mid 70's so I'm certain they were purchased new or nearly new by the school). My only thought is that it's because of the taper attachment. Unlike most taper attachments that have a telescoping cross-feed screw, the 9/10k lathes have a screw in the top of the cross-feed that releases the cross-feed from the nut when using the taper attachment. My thought is that being a shop class, enough new guys forgot to do this and put excessive strain on the nut/cross-feed screw causing wear. No worry, this is a simple fix. $15 worth of 7/16-10 LH precision ground ACME screw stock (only 1 source that I know of), $35 nut, and a few machining operations will fix this.

Further inspection has revealed a missing gib for the taper attachment (easy to make my own if I had a mill) and tight quill on the tail-stock. At this point I've ordered the manual on how to rebuild the lathe and a rebuild kit (felt wipers, oil wicks, gaskets etc) and I've decided to do a full rebuild. Depending on my schedule, this may take a while. I'll be doing a lot of travel for work in the next few months so my time may be limited.

I think I'm going to hold off on the FFL thing for now. I want to get comfortable with the lathe and fully test my abilities with a couple custom gun projects for myself before I start up a side-job. The worst thing I could do is start up, realize I'm not up to par, and disappoint a lot of people.

By the time I get this thing built up I will be into it about $1k w/o tooling, but at that point it will be very tight, and last many more decades.

 

[japartridge]

I've been looking for a deal on a lathe for a while now and found a 14X48 southbend I liked on craigslist. I called my dad to see if he would help me move it if I bought it and he told me to wait. He said there was an auction coming up where they were selling the last Southbend lathe from my high-school shop class. It's a 9X42 model A with the quick change gears and the cabinet/stand. The ways look pretty good, 1 tooth missing off the high-speed headstock gear but that's not a major deal. It didn't come with much tooling, but it did come with the taper-turning attachment and thread-dial which are 2 big pluses for me. I figured it was worth $500; I bought it for $340 + the cost of a single-phase motor (don't know what that is just yet but can't be too bad for a small lathe).

I would have liked to have a bit larger lathe, but I'm happy with my purchase. This will fit in my garage much better than a 14X48. I can probably do 90% of what I would want to do on this lathe. I can patiently wait for a larger garage and larger budget for that other 10%.

Projects you can expect from me in the future (next couple years).

Sig 556 SBR in 300 BLK
Oversize .22lr suppressor for my Spikes ST22
Possibly an integral Ruger 22/45, but I may decided to just go with a .22 can and thread the 22/45 barrel.
Maybe a .223 can, but that's a big maybe.

I'm also considering getting my FFL and doing a little side-work like barrel threading & gun finishing. I'm already set up for KG gunkote, just need my ffl to start taking work...

What says the hive? Get my ffl and start up a business?

If you can swing it, yep, get that FFL and start up a biz. on a side note if you need a lackey, I'd love to learn lathe, CNC, gunsmithing in general, so if you find yourself needing a (large) body around to assist, I'm open.

 

[Spazstick87]

i would go ahead and get your ffl.. You can start small and then pick up a mill or larger lathe and the possibilities are endless when it comes to machining. I do it everyday.

 

[Kedric]

I would definitely go for it. There is a shortage of good skilled gunsmiths!

 

[shibumiseeker]

You have the beginnings of the shop, go for it! This county needs a decent FFL and machining guy.

 

[Zoub]

What says the hive? Get my ffl and start up a business?

I would wait and see if Romney has any incentives or tax breaks for you to start a new business. In the mean time, just "hone" your skills.

 

[jeremy]

I think you need to move up closer to me then open a shop...

Just saying...

 

[the1kidd03]

I would HIGHLY recommend repairing that gear before doing work as a biz

and you can probably expect to pay just a little less than what you did for the unit for the replacement motor (in most cases)

 

[ghitch75]

good buy on the lathe......i have a small Sherline lathe and mill....i'm just waitin' for a interview for my FFL.....new shop will be in the old post office in Koleen....there is enough work out there...

 

[CountryBoy19]

I would HIGHLY recommend repairing that gear before doing work as a biz

and you can probably expect to pay just a little less than what you did for the unit for the replacement motor (in most cases)

If you know anything about SB lathes I'll try to explain where it is. It's in the head stock, it's the gear on the spindle that drives the gear-reducer. It has 4 teeth engaged at once and the location of the gear means that any time it will be used it will be spinning high-speed, low torque. Anymore than I will be using the lathe (probably about once/wk) I will just see how it does for now.

I can understand if it was a gear in the lead-screw gearbox but on the gear reducers for the spindle doesn't concern me near as much.

You have the beginnings of the shop, go for it! This county needs a decent FFL and machining guy.

That's my concern. I don't want to open up and it quickly become something I can't handle. I love my job and this is just something I want to do as a hobby. I'm afraid with the lack of good shops around here I'll have to open up a shop and either quit my job or hire somebody very knowledgeable. Hey, I know a guy.

 

[jrainw]

When I picked up my old lathe at auction, monarch 10ee, I built a static phase converter for it. Was cheaper and easier than swapping motors, seems like I was under $50 to get it throwing chips.

 

[CountryBoy19]

When I picked up my old lathe at auction, monarch 10ee, I built a static phase converter for it. Was cheaper and easier than swapping motors, seems like I was under $50 to get it throwing chips.

Need 220 for that though don't you?

I'd have to run a sub-panel to my garage to wire 220 into it. The motor is only 1/2 hp which can easily be run on 110 and it will be much more convenient to just do it that way. I figured the motor cost into my purchase and I'm willing to pay for it.

 

[Libertarian01]

CountryBoy19,

It sounds like you have a great concept for a viable business.

You should make up a full business plan ON PAPER to really look at it and determine its true viability.

I would suggest starting w/ a list of all costs, both fixed and variable.

Fixed costs are expenses you will pay irregardless of a customer. As an example say you walk into a local store like a Walgreens. They have to pay for electricity, water, insurance, property taxes, their janitorial service, etc etc etc. These are expenses they must pay without selling you a single product.

For you an example of a fixed cost will be your FFL license. You will need to pass that cost on in some way or another to your customers, otherwise you are loosing that money. So if the FFL is $200 / 3 years then you are spending $67 per year just to stay in business. If you have 67 sales / services per year you will need to charge $1 each to pay for the license. Don't think everything will need to be that detailed but don't kill yourself with a 1000 cuts from little costs that you must pay as those can add up if you are not paying attention.

The variable costs would be all of the things on the shelf at Walgreens. So if I go into Walgreens to buy a bottle of shampoo Walgreens is charging me the money for the cost of that bottle (the variable cost to them) PLUS all of the fixed costs they have to pay just to allow me to pick it up.

By coming up with all of the costs this will help you determine the price of your work and avoid guessing. That way you can avoid the common mistake of not taking into account certain expenses and wondering why you are loosing money every month. Sadly, this happens to many beginning business owners.

Another concept you will have to consider is; as a business you will no longer be doing a favor for a friend or a friend of a friend, you will be working for a customer who expects a product delivered in a timely fashion! This means coming up with a set routine that both you and your customers should be able to depend on. If you are just starting slow then you may have only 10 or 20 hours per week you are available, but try to keep them consistent. That will keep you dependable.

A massively important thing will be to find a local CPA you can trust and work with! Bounce ideas off of this person and get to know how to think about your business AS A BUSINESS, not just a cool idea to make money. The reason is that a CPA will be able to help you maximize your business earnings by helping you get tax discounts AND avoiding common mistakes. For example, did you know that if you hire a convicted felon you could receive a substantial credit on you taxes? My CPA had a small business owner tell him about hiring a felon several monthes after the fact. By then it was too late to receive any credit. Big businesses have accounting departments that will leave no credit uncollected. A good CPA will be a great asset to your building a long term profitable business. My CPA doesn't charge anything for an initial sit down and consultation so don't think that it would be expensive to talk to one.

To get a good idea of what to expect you will want to talk to other FFLs who are doing now what you want to do. If locals are not cooperative find others in similar population centers or demographic areas to do you research. This will help you get a better estimate of what to expect.

Also start and do a SWOT analysis. That stands for Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats. The first two (2) are internal. What are your strengths and weaknesses. Say a lot of people want a certain service performed but you don't know how to do it. That would be a weakness that is easily corrected by educating yourself. However, you should be aware of the weakness not to be self critical but to remove it.

Opportunities and Threats are external. You cannot control these but you can prepare for them by coming up with contingency plans for "just in case." Say the Federal Government begins talking about raising the FFL fee from $200 / 3 years to $2,000 / 3 years. You cannot control that but you can start socking away more money so that you aren't caught with your pants down. At the same time that could also be an opportunity as other FFLs near you close down due to inability to pay.

Another example would be "Bob" one (1) mile down the road opening another FFL store at the same time you are. This could be a Threat to your business as the customer base is spread thinner. So the question would be, "What can CountryBoy19 do to keep the maximum number of customers and not loose them to Bob?" Or perhaps you could turn that Threat into an Opportunity to cooperate with Bob to each focus on a different niche market and maximize both stores potentials.

Most new businesses loose money or barely break even for the first five (5) years. So you will want to create a five (5) year plan and review it every six (6) monthes. At the same time you will probably want to create a one (1) year plan and review it every month to be more detailed.

Be prepared to consider that you have a great business idea but that it won't work in your location. In a business class of mine we did a hypothetical study of someone who wanted to open a boutique grooming salon. In one high rent area the foot traffic was tremendous but the cost was high. In the other choice rent was far lower but foot traffic was almost nonexistent. As the business required (by previous analysis) a lot of foot traffic we determined that neither location would be viable long term. Consequently we determined that the store would fail in both locations. We were not given other choices to look at, but you should consider thinking about such variables before committing to any major investment.

I hope I haven't bored you to death with a long post or terrified you with TMI.

I wish you all the success in whatever course of action you choose to pursue.

Regards,

Doug

 

[CountryBoy19]

CountryBoy19,

I hope I haven't bored you to death with a long post or terrified you with TMI.

Nope, all very good points, although I don't think I'll be hiring a convicted felon to help with my gunsmithing business to save some tax money.

Just to clarify for anybody wondering, I don't plan to open a shop, this will be home based. No firearm "sales" but I will offer affordable transfers. The main focus will be more towards one-off type custom work.

I currently have no experience chambering a barrel but I hope to learn soon. Once I accomplish that I can start doing barrel jobs etc which is what I'd really like to do.

 

[jrainw]

Yes you would need 220 for a static converter.
Whatever it takes to get it running go for it, single point threading is fun! I cut down my 9mm ar down to 5.5" and threaded it 1/2-36.

"Need 220 for that though don't you?

I'd have to run a sub-panel to my garage to wire 220 into it. The motor is only 1/2 hp which can easily be run on 110 and it will be much more convenient to just do it that way. I figured the motor cost into my purchase and I'm willing to pay for it."

 

[Disposable Heart]

Tell ya how you could make a TON of money for a little effort: comparatively...

Cut Novak sights. God only knows how many smiths can do it, yet the cost of shipping, plus the actual factual work, etc... Best estimates I can always get run anywhere from 200-300 bucks for a decent sight cut.

Imagine how many people bought RIA GIs and want better sights, but can't swing Novak cutting? Seriously, they bought an inexpensive 1911 to build up slowly, but the sights are always last or a PITA monetarily to do.

Just sayin'...

 

[Caleb]

I'd love to get a lathe and mill to make flashlights

 

[CountryBoy19]

Update in OP... I've decided to rebuild her from ground up before I proceed.

I don't plan to do any paint work though. It's a machine, I like the patina, and paint is a LOT of work for a machine I plan to use. Still debating replacing the broken gear. Looks like about $50 to do so with a used cone pulley/gear combo.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Good luck with your endeavor. I started on the same road w/ an 13x40 SB and rebuilding it became such a vacuum that i gave up the idea. I had similar intentions as you (chambering and threading) but the tooling cost alone for anything worthwhile was going to be over a thousand.

I have since given up my endevour and it has soured me ALOT to the gunsmithing industry as a whole because people never want to pay what you really should be charging.

On a side note, i have a southbend lathe halfway through full restoration for sale for real cheap.

 

[Caleb]

Good luck with your endeavor. I started on the same road w/ an 13x40 SB and rebuilding it became such a vacuum that i gave up the idea. I had similar intentions as you (chambering and threading) but the tooling cost alone for anything worthwhile was going to be over a thousand.

I have since given up my endevour and it has soured me ALOT to the gunsmithing industry as a whole because people never want to pay what you really should be charging.

On a side note, i have a southbend lathe halfway through full restoration for sale for real cheap.

Price?