Family gatherings, politics, and Mexico?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • spartan933

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 21, 2008
    1,157
    36
    Porter County
    I am a democrat. Don't hate.

    I hate the five or six times a year that I have to hang out with the extended family. Not because I don't like them personally. I don't like the politics and religion discussions. Too volatile. And it can get personal way to easily. My Dad tries to enforce his no politics and no religion at the dinner table. But, that's hard to do when you have Jewish people, Catholics, Lutherans, Agnostics, Democrats, and Republicans all in the same family. And, everybody has a Master's or Professional degree, except me. So, everyone thinks their smarter than the person next to them. Except for my father, he is a cool guy and everyone likes him because he only does and says what is right and is a fair man. Which, I think by default, makes him a good man.

    Aside from my Dad and two other members of the family, the other six are soooooo judgmental in regards to gun rights. They have a puritanical view that private gun ownership should be banned in this country and that private gun owners are the cause of so much gun violence.

    I usually attribute that view to a fear and lack of knowledge of firearms. But, recently, they threw at me the whole Mexico drug violence thing and how the United States is supplying ninety percent of the weaponry to Mexico. Well, I just had to cite a few facts regarding that issue.

    Why? Because I just got back from Mexico. No, I was not vacationing in Cancun. I went to the heart of the country, Michoacan. No beaches and lots of mountains and rugged terrain. I was going to a Mexican college and learning Spanish. By the way, the interior of Mexico is beautiful and the mountains are for the most part, untouched by commercial development.

    Michoacan has not seen a lot of drug violence, but some. The deal with that state is that it is sooooo big and has sooooo many mountains, that drugs travel through there, north, because the Mexican Army cannot patrol it effectively due to lack of resources and the terrain.

    They thought I was nuts when I went, driving, and nuts when I came back, alone. I am a pasty, blonde haired, green eyed white dude with Irish blood. So, I stick out like a sore thumb. (Incidentally, I have never had so many hot women hit on me in my life.) But, the danger is part of the fun.

    I explained that in Mexico, the Federal government oversees all gun sales and purchasing a firearm, rifle or handgun, is extremely difficult. Obtaining a license to carry is also difficult.

    So, in Michoacan, the State Government is starting to issue licenses to carry firearms to the people and relaxing the purchase requirements for private citizens. Why? Because even though there is a lack of VIOLENCE in Michoacan as compared to the border states, there IS a significant amount of drug trafficking. So, the State Government, on its own, and smartly, began this "relaxation" process in order to stem the violence and to DETER future violence against law abiding citzens. Essentially, what they are doing is heading the Narcos off at the pass.

    Well, my Harvard educated Step-Brother and his wife, who live in the Gold Coast area of Chicago, and are really very nice people, just had to tell me that it wouldn't be necessary if the U.S. would tighten restrictions on gun ownership.

    Well, I just had to remind them that the reason for the drug violence is that the United States consumes 75 percent of all the drugs in the world and the Narcos are fighting for trafficking routes into the U.S. so people can buy their drugs. The drug violence is not because of the guns. Criminals will get guns one way or another. They are very enterprising in that way. The reason for the violence is the consumption of drugs.

    Reduce the demand and you will reduce the violence.

    They conceded that I had a valid point. But, they were unswayed on the gun issue. We ended the discussion in order to avoid further escalation of tempers. I later, offered to take them shooting on Easter Sunday. They politely declined.

    Anyways, sorry for being so long winded. I just wanted to relate that to some like-minded people and get it off of my mind.
     

    Indy_Guy_77

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    16   0   0
    Apr 30, 2008
    16,576
    48
    Not gonna hate...

    But did you vote for the candidate who was going to make life very difficult for private gun ownership?

    -J-
     

    Timjoebillybob

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Feb 27, 2009
    9,421
    149
    Just locking the border down will cost more money and they still will get some through. Legalize the drugs, tax em, then use the tax money to pay for the border security. Legalizing will not stop all the drug traffic but will reduce so our patrols will have less to concentrate on. More money and less border jumpers=win. That is if they will untie the patrols hands and let them do their job.
     

    cosermann

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Aug 15, 2008
    8,393
    113
    They have a puritanical view that private gun ownership should be banned in this country and that private gun owners are the cause of . . .

    Actually, the Puritans were strong supporters of the lawful defense of innocent life and of resisting tyrants as a Christian duty.

    Without this theological influence expressed through the pulpits of America (at that time), the revolutionary war may never have happened.
     
    Last edited:

    El Cazador

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 17, 2009
    1,100
    36
    NW Hendricks CO
    Legalize Drugs;

    To legalize drugs like cocaine, heroin, and even grass, you accept responsibility for it being "OK to use". That means you'll have to regulate the making of it by getting the FDA involved. Otherwise there will be lawsuits galore by the ambulance chasers for the families of abusers who die from a "bad batch". So, we double the size of the FDA (at least), with the accompanying taxpayer funding. Since all of the drugs come originally from plants, guess who gets to oversee the growing? Yep, USDA. After all, we can't have the plants over-fertilized, or heaven forbid, hybridized. Double the USDA, with of course the requisite funding. Now we're going to tax the final product. Guess who? IRS! Gotta fund them, including all the extra field officers to chase the street corner sellers. Let's add in the FBI and all the other law enforcement acronyms for enforcement of the new laws and rules concerning the use and abuse of these "legal drugs". Don't forget funding all of the government sponsored "detox" centers, too.

    So now we've:

    Doubled the size of the FDA

    Doubled the size of the USDA

    Quadrupled the size of the IRS

    Doubled the size of the FBI, etc.

    Created massive government healthcare costs.


    I thought Libertarians are for smaller government?
     

    jennybird

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 2, 2008
    1,584
    38
    Martinsville, IN
    it wouldn't be necessary if the U.S. would tighten restrictions on gun ownership

    Where do people get this crap?

    Do they realize that it's not the gun owners that are shipping weapons to Mexico? Do they understand that stricter laws would, in fact, make the criminals most happy that they don't have to worry about being shot by a law abiding citizen?

    I think the next time you have a big family gathering, you should invite all of your INGO friends over! We'll take care of any confusion they might have.
     

    clt46910

    Master
    Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 4, 2008
    1,633
    36
    Akron Indiana
    Don't try to tax or regulate drugs. Just don't make them illegal and drop all the jail time for having them. Make it illegal to drive or be in public while under the influence of them, but make them available and cheap. This would dry up the illegal trade in drugs. There would be plenty and cheap for those that want to use them. In time they will calm down and level out.

    As to the cry that if they was legal that we would have a country of druggies. Look around you. Will your parents, siblings or other family member change their habits and take up drugs? I would bet that if they are not doing them now, they will not start just because they are now legal. Also you will take the thrill out of it for the younger crowd. Drugs are not something you have to hide, anyone can get them. Just let it run its natural course and I would bet we would go back to like it was in the fifties. A few people knew they was around, but nobody really cared because only the losers used them.
     

    CopperWires

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 26, 2009
    327
    16
    Jeffersonville
    spartan933, this might help your case. Gun Facts - Your guide for debunking gun control myth The copyright is setup to encourage the distribution of this material. Feel free to print it out and hand it out at the next gathering. All the statistics are cited from reliable sources and government agencies (scholars that think they are smarter than everyone like this type of reading). If you already knew about this information, maybe I reminded you about it. If not, sorry for the unhelpful post.

    I strongly encourage every to print or at least save a copy of it! Its pretty interesting really. I was thinking about sending a printed copy to all of the representatives, senators, and governor, but wondered if someone else might have beat me to the punch. It might also be good to send it to the editor of the local paper or to your local tv news station. The author highly encourages this type of distribution.
     

    HICKMAN

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Jan 10, 2009
    16,762
    48
    Lawrence Co.
    Just locking the border down will cost more money and they still will get some through. Legalize the drugs, tax em, then use the tax money to pay for the border security. Legalizing will not stop all the drug traffic but will reduce so our patrols will have less to concentrate on. More money and less border jumpers=win. That is if they will untie the patrols hands and let them do their job.

    If they still come through, the border isn't locked down.

    Legalizing drugs is EXACTLY the cop out this stupid administration is looking for, except they are trying to make it appear as OUR decision.

    Which drugs are you going to legalize? Make one legal, they will bitch. What about coke, what about heroin, what about meth...
     

    Go Devil

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 10, 2009
    254
    18
    Fishers, IN
    Leagalizing drugs to stop crime is like setting your house on fire beacause you don't like to clean your floors.

    Retarded.

    How about education, motivation, and inspiration at an early age;
    maybe people won't need to 'medicate' themselves through a ****** day.

    The author of this post needs to drive his family to the SE side of Chicago and drop them off. When their bodies are recovered, my guess is the wounds won't be from firearms.
     

    BloodEclipse

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Apr 3, 2008
    10,620
    38
    In the trenches for liberty!
    If you legalize drugs who will be responsible for the production of them?
    The way we treat tobacco companies, I can't see anyone wanting to set themselves up for the inevitable lawsuits that would be coming from all the money grubbing lawyers. Product liabaility might actually make the drugs much more expensive then they are now. If that happened then there would still be a Black market and no problems solved.
     

    spartan933

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 21, 2008
    1,157
    36
    Porter County
    Actually, Go Devil, the Southwest side is a little more dangerous than the Southeast side. And, I agree, that education at an early age is the best way to encourage young people not to do drugs.

    I have always felt that people who use drugs are pathetic in one form or another. I have always preferred alcohol to drugs for various reasons. I have never felt the need to try a drug for experimental purposes. In my mind, there is a stigma associated with any kind of drug use, marijuana or otherwise. I just don't do it.

    But, I must object to your suggestion that I drop my family off in a rough neighborhood, and the implication that they would be dead from circumstances other than gun violence. It is an unnecessary argument.
     

    Go Devil

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Jan 10, 2009
    254
    18
    Fishers, IN
    Actually, Go Devil, the Southwest side is a little more dangerous than the Southeast side. And, I agree, that education at an early age is the best way to encourage young people not to do drugs.

    I have always felt that people who use drugs are pathetic in one form or another. I have always preferred alcohol to drugs for various reasons. I have never felt the need to try a drug for experimental purposes. In my mind, there is a stigma associated with any kind of drug use, marijuana or otherwise. I just don't do it.

    But, I must object to your suggestion that I drop my family off in a rough neighborhood, and the implication that they would be dead from circumstances other than gun violence. It is an unnecessary argument.


    I do agree with your objection and I do not seek harm for anyone (your family included). My statement was inappropriate and for that I apologize.

    I just seem to get a bit flared by arguments with insanity and as for entering said arguments I appear as the saying goes;

    "Never argue with an idiot, the people watching may not know the difference."
     

    mikea46996

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 28, 2009
    1,750
    38
    Winamac
    Leagalizing drugs to stop crime is like setting your house on fire beacause you don't like to clean your floors.

    Retarded.

    How about education, motivation, and inspiration at an early age;
    maybe people won't need to 'medicate' themselves through a ****** day.

    The author of this post needs to drive his family to the SE side of Chicago and drop them off. When their bodies are recovered, my guess is the wounds won't be from firearms.

    You know i was just sitting here thinking. Damn I have to mop the kitchen floor later, awww to hell with i think I'll just burn it down.:rockwoot:

    That just earned you some rep.
     
    Top Bottom