Eliminating 19 Classifiers

[jakemartens]

All this for a little change in Revo division? This is pretty ridiculous! Should have thought that one thru further.

That they were retired isn't a big deal, why they were retired is
The stages are not illegal based on the rules, but they were retired because of the advantage created by 8 round minor
So going forward stages (speed shoots and standards stages which are what 99% of classifiers fall under) will need to be 6 round neutral, otherwise they too will have the same issues as the 19 retired.
Which means that at some point the BoD is going to have to address 1.2 Types of courses and either add classifiers have to be 6 round neutral or change what speed shoots and standard stages are so everything is consistent and now you are changing a hell of a lot more than just letting 8 round minor in revolver.


The reality of it is that it is a big freaking mess, and no easy way to clean it up.
If you just put those back in and continue forward with 8 round minor then the fear of people going and running up GM scores because of the advantage of not having to reload based on what the HHF are now is real
You also can't just tell revolver division that none of your classifiers count for the next year until we reset the HHF, how fair is that to someone


So the decision was very short sighted and the effect is very board and has the ability to change the face of the sport based on how they handle types of courses of fire going forward.

 

[Rob377]

Were there any 10 round classifiers that had to get retired when Single Stack Division was born?

 

[jakemartens]

Were there any 10 round classifiers that had to get retired when Single Stack Division was born?

Not that I am aware, but remember it was provisional for a year before they made it a division and they took the high hit factors from Limited 10 and set them for Single Stack

Just thought of this, they should take the hhf from production and make use them for revolver and put them back in

 

[Rob377]

Not that I am aware, but remember it was provisional for a year before they made it a division and they took the high hit factors from Limited 10 and set them for Single Stack

Just thought of this, they should take the hhf from production and make use them for revolver and put them back in

Wouldn't that hose the 6-shooter crowd that much harder?

 

[Bosshoss]

Wouldn't that hose the 6-shooter crowd that much harder?

Yes it would.
Jake I suggested that they put a check box on the classifiers that were dropped. Check the box if you were shooting 8 shot gun.
We could then have separate HHF for 6 & 8 shot guns.
My suggestion was take the HHF from SS which is the closest division to revolver in capacity and reduce the HHF down by 10% to factor in the slower reloads and longer trigger pull and use that for the HHF for revolver 8. The HHF could be adjusted up or down after a few months of data has been collected.

There is something to think about with the above that is that the classifier is also a stage in the match. That means that the suggestion above will even things up somewhat as far as classifiers that get sent in, it will not make it even in the match standings.
Someone going to a Major match with their 6 shot gun and finds one of these classifiers as part of the match it could cost them the match.
The field courses can be evened out with some thinking and reloading while moving but on these classifiers your match standing will drop with every moonclip you drop(shooting your 6 shot gun).


Others suggested that the classifier WSB should say that: ATTN revolver division ALL guns do a reload after 6 shots.


Lots of ideas were brought up but they went the easy way that wasn't thought out very well.

 

[Coach]

Let's face it the arms race has come to revolver, and this is what happens when things are not thought through. Six shot revolvers are now as obsolete in USPSA as they are in the real world. If you want to compete for a win you will need 8 shots. If the classifiers are as unfair as has been claimed then 6 shot revolvers are obsolete. I hope flood of new USPSA shooters from ICORE are worth the change.

 

[smith52]

Everyone should be a little nicer to the [STRIKE]IDPA[/STRIKE] Revolver crowd. They are shooters. We need to be united as shooters as we have enough enemies.

 

[Rob377]

Everyone should be a little nicer to the [STRIKE]IDPA[/STRIKE] Revolver crowd. They are shooters. We need to be united as shooters as we have enough enemies.

 

[jakemartens]

Everyone should be a little nicer to the [STRIKE]IDPA[/STRIKE] Revolver crowd. They are shooters. We need to be united as shooters as we have enough enemies.

See now that is funny right there

 

[BillD]

I don't make fun of revolver shooters. There's just no challenge.

 

[Bosshoss]

Everyone should be a little nicer to the [STRIKE]IDPA[/STRIKE] Revolver crowd. They are shooters. We need to be united as shooters as we have enough enemies.

+1

 

[Coach]

+1

I think we would have to do some scientific experiments to prove that.

 

[Coach]

Are people born with a revolver affliction or is it something that develops from the environment?

 

[smith52]

I blame it on the environment, all these amish people. The smell of horse sh*t finally got to me...I'm leaving.

 

[jakemartens]

Are people born with a revolver affliction or is it something that develops from the environment?

Has something to do with not being nursed or eating paint chips

 

[CB45]

The thought of 6 shot speed shoots is dumb. Single stack folks will be really confused.

 

[JJJ]

I've had a question on my mind since the start of this thread. So here it is, why do you have to go down to 6 rounds to make it revolver friendly, what would be wrong with 12?

 

[rvb]

are you talking about for designing a classifier stage? for instance, they didn't get rid of el prez. that's still 6-round neutral since it has 12 rounds and a mandatory reload. You could even have between 6 and 12 rounds so long as there is a mandatory reload.

The problem was some classifiers had 8 rounds w/o a mandatory reload (eg fluffy's), so 8 round guns would have to reload and 6 round guns wouldnt. put a mandatory reload in (eg shoot either all paper or all steel, then a mandatory reload before engaging the rest) and the classifier would have become legal again. It's not about reducing classifiers to 6 rounds, it's about being "6-round neutral" (to borrow and idpa term). you can accomplish that w/out simply using multiples of 6.

-rvb

 

[CB45]

I just think its boring to have every speed shoot 6 reload 6. Arrays of 8 provided some diversity with classifiers.


Moving forward, I don't want to be forced to into 6 shot neutral standards and speed shoots. That will be a step backwards.

 

[smith52]

I just think its boring to have every speed shoot 6 reload 6. Arrays of 8 provided some diversity with classifiers.


Moving forward, I don't want to be forced to into 6 shot neutral standards and speed shoots. That will be a step backwards.

I agree Chad, I perferred the 8 round neutral stage even when I was shooting a 6 shot wheel gun. Trying to figure out a stage break down was what made shoot revolver fun and was a big part of the challenge. Everbody in revo division had the same number of required reloads unless you missed of course. All those that pushed for 8 shot minor rule change in revo should have just dropped a set and just shot. If they wanted to be more competitive with their buddies shooting in single stack or production they should have change divisions.