Eliminating 19 Classifiers

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  • Bosshoss

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    Anyone who has skill has gotten there through work. There is no easy button to GM. No C class shooter is going to make GM in Revolver with an 8 shot.

    I have to disagree Coach several shooters tested this last fall and proved it out. Some of the classifiers that were retired had 8 shot strings with a mandatory reload after 8 shots. 6 shot guns have to do 3 reloads vs. 1 for a 8 shot gun. IIRC one shooter at a match that experimented with this was a high C class shooter and they timed his reloads at 3 seconds average. He used a 8 shot gun that he had never shot before and beat his 6 shot run by over 5 seconds and had 2 or 3 points better on target and yes his run would have been 100% nationally.
    Hell I bet I could get 100% on some of these classifiers shooting SHO.


    Someone actually does make GM in revolver and is Master in all others what does that get them. Their ass kicked in every major for the rest of their life.

    ​I would guess the 80% of USPSA shooters don't shoot majors anyway. But they get to be local hero's.


    I think the problem is in your logic.

    Wouldn't be the first time:laugh:

    The concern you expressed is that someone is going to get something without working or without working as hard as we have to work. The rules should exist to make the playing field fair and consistent not to make sure that everyone has to put in the proper amount of work or effort.

    That is what I should have said Coach. I would just like a level and fair playing field. Thank You


    We all have different skills and that means we have to do different amount of work to get the same place. I try to worry about me and not about the other guy. I have no control over him and I don't want to have control over him. Live and let live. I like individual freedom.

    I agree coach I try to worry about my own issues. Which makes me ask why so many shooters are upset that a few classifiers were dropped? Classifiers are retired on a regular basis so this is not like it's the first time. Seems like a lot of people that don't shoot revolver division are worried about a revolver rule change. What happened to live and let live?
    ​A lot of revolver shooters tried to defuse this while it was happening and while the rest of USPSA shooters weren't "worried about the other guy" we could have used the help and support trying to figure a way to make this rule change fair and with minimal impact on everyone else.

    I was not blaming the revolver shooters before but I think I am going to now.

    So much for "live and let live":lmfao:

    Whoever pushed this 8 shot thing has made a mess.

    + 1000000000000000000000000

    Make a change for/in the smallest division and screw it all up. I have usually one revolver shooter at my match a month and he has been shooting Production for a year. But now there are 19 classifiers not available for the match of 35 to 60 people. That is what we call Bull****.

    FWIW Coach our area director was against the 8 shot as Jake has stated and I thank him for that. As for the rest of this mess pointing fingers NOW is not going to fix it.
    You are right what a mess.
     

    Coach

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    FWIW Coach our area director was against the 8 shot as Jake has stated and I thank him for that. As for the rest of this mess pointing fingers NOW is not going to fix it.
    You are right what a mess.

    How about we just start two petitions. 1 to be rid of 8 shot revolver. 2 put the classifiers back in place. They will respond to large public pressure like they did with Productions trigger pull.
     

    Bosshoss

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    How about we just start two petitions. 1 to be rid of 8 shot revolver. 2 put the classifiers back in place. They will respond to large public pressure like they did with Productions trigger pull.

    The production trigger thing never got passed as a rule did it? If I remember right it was purposed and never made it to the vote.
    The revolver change was passed and is now in effect.
    They told me that if this didn't work out that it couldn't be changed back for 2 years and even then it would have to go through the whole process that it just went thru to change it back.( Open for discussion and voted on by the board etc.)
     

    Coach

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    The production trigger thing never got passed as a rule did it? If I remember right it was purposed and never made it to the vote.
    The revolver change was passed and is now in effect.
    They told me that if this didn't work out that it couldn't be changed back for 2 years and even then it would have to go through the whole process that it just went thru to change it back.( Open for discussion and voted on by the board etc.)

    Nothing is permanent and that includes constitutional amendments.
     

    JJJ

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    I guess I'm the odd one out here, because I really don't care about the classifers getting dropped. As soon as I get my hands on a 929 I'll shoot revolver, and not so I can make GM as a c class shooter. I'm looking forward to having a competitive gun for every division that I want to shoot in a caliber that I reload for 9mm. When I first started I was thinking I'd reload .40 & .45 also, but I just don't like reloading and fiddling with reloading stuff that much! The expense of stocking components for other calibers is a sticking point for me as well. I guess I'm just a big fan of uniformity, I want all my handguns to shoot the same load.
     

    Rob377

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    The classifiers getting dropped doesn't bother me all that much either. There are still 60-something active classifiers to use. USPSA members ain't happy unless they're *****ing about something.
     

    BillD

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    I guess I'm the odd one out here, because I really don't care about the classifers getting dropped. As soon as I get my hands on a 929 I'll shoot revolver, and not so I can make GM as a c class shooter. I'm looking forward to having a competitive gun for every division that I want to shoot in a caliber that I reload for 9mm. When I first started I was thinking I'd reload .40 & .45 also, but I just don't like reloading and fiddling with reloading stuff that much! The expense of stocking components for other calibers is a sticking point for me as well. I guess I'm just a big fan of uniformity, I want all my handguns to shoot the same load.
    hard to fault you for that JJ.

    I really don't care about the classifiers being dropped either. It's not like one of them was going to move me up a class. I'll just shoot the classifiers that are presented.
    It really shouldn't make that much difference.
     

    riverman67

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    I don't care about classifiers at all.
    I figured out a few years ago that it does no good to bust your ass practicing stand and shoot classifers.
    Let's face it,most of the classifiers require little movement. If you have a bum knee,a bad back or are just fat and can't move quickly(like me). It is not in your best interest to be classified high on the classifiers we typically see at club matches.
    I get it,clubs want to shoot the easiest to set up classifiers and spend time getting the field courses right. I agree with that philosopy because, the match is going to be decided on the field courses.
    When more than 50% of classifiers require more than a few steps of movement I will worry about shooting them better than I do. Until then it is not in my best interest to try and move up.I don't sandbag,but I don't drill classifiers either.
    I just shoot what's there the best I am able that day.


    If I ever go crazy and buy a revolver it will be an 8 shot 9mm.
    That is now the revolver division and a slap in the face to the guys that have been shooting it all this time.
    What a dick cheese move.
     

    Coach

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    The mindset and lack of leadership are a bigger deal than dropping of the classifiers themselves, and this perception of fair.
     

    jakemartens

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    The mindset and lack of leadership are a bigger deal than dropping of the classifiers themselves, and this perception of fair.

    Classifiers come and go, as Coach points out it is the way that this has been handled and how it was rolled. There is alot going on here more than just retiring classifiers
     

    rvb

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    Don't feel neglected rvb, I have sent him a couple emails also with no response.. **** poor communication! I'm glad our Area rep is on the ball!!!

    I received a response last night. He's fwd'ing my suggestion about the bylaw change requiring rules being available to members some time ahead of their effective date on to the BoD.

    -rvb
     

    rvb

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    The mindset and lack of leadership are a bigger deal than dropping of the classifiers themselves, and this perception of fair.

    Classifiers come and go, as Coach points out it is the way that this has been handled and how it was rolled. There is alot going on here more than just retiring classifiers

    agree with these comments. that's the frustration.

    I also don't like the implied rule for classifiers for 6-round neutral stages.
    I worry about the slippery slope it creates... what next, will 1.2.2.3 change to 6round neutral? There's NO WAY a 6-shooter can beat an 8-shooter in a 8-R-8 speed shoot. If we change 1.2.2.3, then should we change 1.2.1? I always assumed the 8-round array came from 1) not wanting stand and shoot hose-fests and 2) 1911 capacity limits. Changing 2) to revolver limits seems like a natural progression of this train we are on. 1.2.2.1 is already 6-round friendly... why?

    -rvb
     
    Last edited:

    jakemartens

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    What the BoD needs to do is-
    -actually use the uspsa.org/forum (you have to be a current uspsa member to access and make post)
    -set up a survey in there when things like this type of ruling come up to have a 60-90 day window for current members to respond to a survey or poll on what they feel should happen
    -the results should be for member review before BoD voting
    -minutes for the BoD should include all comments, not just the generic way it is set up now

    AD's should be soliciting input from the members in their area to make voting decisions.
     

    BillD

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    What the BoD needs to do is-
    -actually use the uspsa.org/forum (you have to be a current uspsa member to access and make post)
    -set up a survey in there when things like this type of ruling come up to have a 60-90 day window for current members to respond to a survey or poll on what they feel should happen
    -the results should be for member review before BoD voting
    -minutes for the BoD should include all comments, not just the generic way it is set up now

    AD's should be soliciting input from the members in their area to make voting decisions.

    Well that would make it the most transparent administration in history. Fat chance.

    Do you ever notice that people in a position of power, whether they be Senators or forum moderators, like to utilize that power as they see fit?
     

    smith52

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    What the BoD needs to do is-
    -actually use the uspsa.org/forum (you have to be a current uspsa member to access and make post)
    -set up a survey in there when things like this type of ruling come up to have a 60-90 day window for current members to respond to a survey or poll on what they feel should happen
    -the results should be for member review before BoD voting
    Besides having an actual poll/survey that is what they pretty much did for the rule changes that just went into affect Feb. 1, 2014. The problem being the USPSA forum sucks, as I am a current member have registered for the forum and have never been able to post. When I have asked, I'm told the administrator will have to authorize. Since I never was able to post on the forum I emailed AD's, the Pres, and Amidon. There were lots of post on there regarding all the latest rule changes (prior to them canning the classifiers)
     

    Jesse Tischauser

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    All this for a little change in Revo division? This is pretty ridiculous! Should have thought that one thru further.
     
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