Do you believe in other life in the Universe?

[BugI02]

Ethics: the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation

Sure. Let's toss them to the wayside. That seems productive

Might wanna reference the who, what, when, where of that quote (in #479) for a fuller understanding

 

[BugI02]

Reckon that was a part of the plan?

"You gotta' keep 'em separated"

 

[hog slayer]

You mean all the way back to Hindu texts? Or were you referring to atomic bomb scientists? I'm playing, a bit. I get your aim. It doesn't change the idea that to progress without ethics isn't really progression. Now, this may have taken us too far off topic of life elsewhere. Although, there could be an interesting tie in from the Hindu side.

 

[churchmouse]

"You gotta' keep 'em separated"

Now that danged song is looping in my weak little mind.....

 

[seedubs1]

So.....anybody here watch “undocumented” on Netflix? Pretty well all debunked, but a fun watch none the less.

 

[BugI02]

You mean all the way back to Hindu texts? Or were you referring to atomic bomb scientists? I'm playing, a bit. I get your aim. It doesn't change the idea that to progress without ethics isn't really progression. Now, this may have taken us too far off topic of life elsewhere. Although, there could be an interesting tie in from the Hindu side.

Yep, J Robert is why I referenced necessity; he did what he felt he had to do but was then appalled at the results. He knew all that development wouldn't have gone into a weapon that would never be used

Teller is a scarier example. He pushed to develop ever more powerful weapons not because we needed them but because he found the area of research interesting. Now we talk megatons instead of kilotons

As to "intelligent" life, have we really found that anywhere (even here)? Do we qualify, or are we just clever?

 

[2A_Tom]

But, the grants!

Here's where we'll have to disagree. Answering the questions of how and why is what gives us the world we live in. If knowledge is power, then we have an interest to make sure we get as much of that knowledge as we can, before others do. Of all the things we spend money on, research and exploration are not of those I disagree with.

We can disagree amicably, please consider this.

Of what value is it to find a virus, microbe or a germ, before the ________? (Insert foreign power of choice.)

Of what good is it to know that there is a planet orbiting a sun that is of the proper magnitude, the correct distance and relatively correct length of orbit lightcenturies away? Does it also have the correct tilt, rotation, atmosphere, water &t?

We will never be able to verify any of this. How does it benefit mankind?

Now if we are talking inteligent life that is capable of interstellar travel, that is a different story. We need to meet them before ________.(Insert foreign power of choice.)

We need to get their technology first so we can wipe out ________(Insert foreign power of choice.) before they wipe us out.

On a saner note. Do we not benefit from world wide advancements, why do we have to be the "one"?

 

[Alpo]

The problem with industrial capitalism is that it has a tendency to optimize the value of yesterday's ideas. Certainly, that is better than the communists, but it isn't a system or culture that improves the lot of mankind as a whole in an optimal manner.

We make a mistake in monetizing the value of all things. That's a post 18th century attitude initiated by the British. It's been around so long now that we think it is the "natural order of things". It isn't.

 

[2A_Tom]

The problem with industrial capitalism is that it has a tendency to optimize the value of yesterday's ideas. Certainly, that is better than the communists, but it isn't a system or culture that improves the lot of mankind as a whole in an optimal manner.

We make a mistake in monetizing the value of all things. That's a post 18th century attitude initiated by the British. It's been around so long now that we think it is the "natural order of things". It isn't.

Please this is not meant as a personal atack, so please do not take it that way.

That statement sounds so communist to me.

May I have one of your AR's? Preferably an AR 10. Since it has no intrinsic value I know you would gladly gift it to me.

ETA I just googled that statement and find it to be a common thread in Nihilistic thought.

 

[BugI02]

BF I don't think he's saying it has no intrinsic value, he's saying some things cannot be bought/valued in dollars. The only way I can value my wife or my freedom is to say it is priceless, meaning no possible price can ever be enough. To evaluate everything in terms of dollars is to imply that they can be bought; a useful method of comparison sometimes but meaningless in others

What was the work of Descartes or Newton worth to mankind in dollars? I'll allow you a pretty broad latitude in confidence but still expect any answer will be ... suspect

 

[Alpo]

Please this is not meant as a personal atack, so please do not take it that way.

That statement sounds so communist to me.

May I have one of your AR's? Preferably an AR 10. Since it has no intrinsic value I know you would gladly gift it to me.

ETA I just googled that statement and find it to be a common thread in Nihilistic thought.

The communist system was developed in the 19th Century, although ideas were borrowed from earlier periods. It was a response to industrial capitalism which is an 18th Century idea....WHICH I STATED.

I also stated "monetization of ALL THINGS". Not some things. ALL things.

With respect, you are expressing ideas which appear natural to you, but perhaps not to non-Western cultures.

Edit: I googled my text that you highlighted. The first entry to come up was a piece by Robert Heilbroner. I'm glad you put me in such fine company. He was a distinguished philosopher and economist. The article "The Future of Capitalism" has a number of ideas worth reflection.

 

[2A_Tom]

I am speaking of expendatures in the trillions of dollars.

The science has yielded immesurable advance in tecnnology here on earth, digital everything has come lightyears from the 1960s when the space race began.

And we have footprints on the Moon and [STRIKE]have found water on Mars[/STRIKE].

 

[bulletsmith]

We can disagree amicably, please consider this.

Of what value is it to find a virus, microbe or a germ, before the ________? (Insert foreign power of choice.)

Of what good is it to know that there is a planet orbiting a sun that is of the proper magnitude, the correct distance and relatively correct length of orbit lightcenturies away? Does it also have the correct tilt, rotation, atmosphere, water &t?

We will never be able to verify any of this. How does it benefit mankind?

Now if we are talking inteligent life that is capable of interstellar travel, that is a different story. We need to meet them before ________.(Insert foreign power of choice.)

We need to get their technology first so we can wipe out ________(Insert foreign power of choice.) before they wipe us out.

On a saner note. Do we not benefit from world wide advancements, why do we have to be the "one"?

Hopefully my comments did not sound otherwise.

By themselves, I think I probably agree with most of your comments there. But as a whole, I think there is benefit to being the ones. The search for life has precipitated the development of new technology that we benefit from. It's doubtful that we even know about all of it. It's probably easier to sell the search for life as the reason for exploration than "lets see if we can do it" as well.

I guess I like being the ones that are out there figuring this stuff out. It's part of the need to understand everything...

 

[2A_Tom]

Nearly 40 years ago I saw some 26 megapixle digital photos.

Maybe 20 years ago I purchaced a 1.5 megapixil "state of the art" camera for one of my daughters.

There is a LOT of technology that we do not know about.

I agree that we should be on the cutting edge of technology.

But I believe that when alot of people talk aboyt life in the universe they are not thinking of single cell organisms.

 

[jamil]

People who explore the stars and look for life out there do so because they’re curious. Maybe they believe there will be some great discovery that benefits humans. Whatever value that has should be monetized. If YOU think that research has value for you then YOU sould spend YOUR money on it.

Roads. Bridges. National defense. Administration of government. Okay. Those things arguably have a communal value. To the extent that we watch the heavens for dangers, that has a communal value. But the value of looking for life in the universe is really subjective. Fund it privately if you’re interested in it too.

 

[bulletsmith]

Before we digress too far, I'll just say that I appreciate the fact that no single opinion is what determines how tax money is spent.

For a little reading on what we have learned while exploring outside our atmosphere : https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2017/toc_2017.html

 

[2A_Tom]

Before we digress too far, I'll just say that I appreciate the fact that no single opinion is what determines how tax money is spent.

For a little reading on what we have learned while exploring outside our atmosphere : https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2017/toc_2017.html

That list is truly amazing, but everything on it could have been discovered through normal terrestrial research. Save something that requires low gravity. That could be done in proximity to earth.

People who explore the stars and look for life out there do so because they’re curious. Maybe they believe there will be some great discovery that benefits humans. Whatever value that has should be monetized. If YOU think that research has value for you then YOU sould spend YOUR money on it.

Roads. Bridges. National defense. Administration of government. Okay. Those things arguably have a communal value. To the extent that we watch the heavens for dangers, that has a communal value. But the value of looking for life in the universe is really subjective. Fund it privately if you’re interested in it too.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jamil again.

This is my point. That form of welfare is acceptable to Bulletsmith and many others.

 

[bulletsmith]

This is my point. That form of welfare is acceptable to Bulletsmith and many others.

Hmm, I never thought of scientific research as welfare before. I searched a definition and I still don't view it as welfare. For sure we have a different view of how money is spent on this matter. As to how those discoveries could have been developed, I agree, but isn't that a bit easy to say after the fact? Sometimes we require a reason to go looking for a solution first.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm a stickler for the term "believe", but I figure there probably is life on other planets.

I wonder how long after first contact one of us will eat one of them or vice versa.

Do you suppose they will taste like chicken?

 

[Wolfhound]

Do you suppose they will taste like chicken?

I call dibs on the first Kentucky Fried Alien chain. Regular or extra tentacles.