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Debunking Vaccine Myths
- Thread starter rambone
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... and they've been met by self serving "experts", making up factoids and information based on an afternoon on the computer.
No matter how often it's explained that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks, there is a chorus of disapprovers out there – fantasists, conspiratists, but also genuinely thoughtful critics – undermining the government message (which, in the case of H1N1, is rightfully accused of being confusing).
"People make up the facts," Dr. David Butler Jones, head of Canada's Public Health Agency, said last week. "The worst thing that could happen is people listen to these claims. I just saw somebody on the news this morning claiming neurological damage from vaccines. That is just plain not true, but it persists.
Have a safe Halloween folks.
No matter how often it's explained that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the risks, there is a chorus of disapprovers out there – fantasists, conspiratists, but also genuinely thoughtful critics – undermining the government message (which, in the case of H1N1, is rightfully accused of being confusing).
"People make up the facts," Dr. David Butler Jones, head of Canada's Public Health Agency, said last week. "The worst thing that could happen is people listen to these claims. I just saw somebody on the news this morning claiming neurological damage from vaccines. That is just plain not true, but it persists.
Have a safe Halloween folks.
If Canada's doctors have answered those questions and performed those studies, then I'd like to read about them. I personally know 3 people who have had bad reactions to vaccines. One had a seizure following a vaccine, and one spent 3 years relearning to walk. This guy saying "just plain not true" is not good enough. Where is the study?
A Double-Blind, Randomized, Controlled, Multicenter Safety and Immunogenicity Study of a Refrigerator-Stable Formulation of Zostavax -- Gilderman et al. 15 (2): 314 -- Clinical and Vaccine Immunology
Here is one.
Rambone,
Sorry to hear that you know so many people who have experienced "bad reactions" to vaccines. Were any studies performed to prove that the reactions were due to the vaccines they took some indeterminate time before the "reaction" was experienced and not some other environmental factor? I'd be curious to read those.
I'd love to read some CREDIBLE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that flu vaccines are unsafe today. Please provide links.
Note: I'm not sure if a new thread is required on the flu vaccine topic every day... that's just me though.
Bigus_D
Some vaccines work better than others. Flu vaccine to me is quite pointless and cost ineffective. There are too many strains.
There are hundreds if not thousands of studies that show vaccines work. Unless you believe there's some world wide conspiracy and the FDA and CDC are evil government entities, and they have been faking reports about scientific literature on this for decades and every scientist is too scared to conduct studies to disprove the usefulness of all vaccines.
The problem is some vaccinations are mandated by law, on children. People start complaining because the government should stay out of decision making, especially medical ones. I agree. Vaccinations should be optional, and any parent whose kid gets a disease can be found guilty of a crime of child abuse, if it can be proven in a court of law that the vaccine had a good chance of preventing it. Also any other person who contacts said disease from that child, can sue the family for monetary damage and the parent can be charged with distributing a biological weapon.
The main point is this. Vaccines have varying efficacy and have negative side effects. LIKE EVERY OTHER DRUG/MEDICATION. In general, the doctor informs you of the risks of taking a drug and you decide whether to take it. Unfortunately, for some diseases, your decision impacts others. Your right to decide whether to take a drug is balanced by the right of others to life and not get infected by you. This is a complicated situation and every drug and every case is different.
There are hundreds if not thousands of studies that show vaccines work. Unless you believe there's some world wide conspiracy and the FDA and CDC are evil government entities, and they have been faking reports about scientific literature on this for decades and every scientist is too scared to conduct studies to disprove the usefulness of all vaccines.
The problem is some vaccinations are mandated by law, on children. People start complaining because the government should stay out of decision making, especially medical ones. I agree. Vaccinations should be optional, and any parent whose kid gets a disease can be found guilty of a crime of child abuse, if it can be proven in a court of law that the vaccine had a good chance of preventing it. Also any other person who contacts said disease from that child, can sue the family for monetary damage and the parent can be charged with distributing a biological weapon.
The main point is this. Vaccines have varying efficacy and have negative side effects. LIKE EVERY OTHER DRUG/MEDICATION. In general, the doctor informs you of the risks of taking a drug and you decide whether to take it. Unfortunately, for some diseases, your decision impacts others. Your right to decide whether to take a drug is balanced by the right of others to life and not get infected by you. This is a complicated situation and every drug and every case is different.
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7. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification on how bypassing the respiratory tract (or mucous membrane) is advantageous and how directly injecting viruses into the bloodstream enhances immune functioning and prevents future infections?
Is this a retarded question? I hope people who believe this never ever are allowed to take injections for any medication. For the second part of the question, the answer is called "read how vaccinations (supposedly) work".
8. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification on how a vaccine would prevent viruses from mutating?
It doesn't. Who said vaccines prevent viruses from mutating?
9. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification as to how a vaccination can target a virus in an infected individual who does not have the exact viral configuration or strain the vaccine was developed for?
It doesn't, if the immune system cannot recognize that the two strains are similar. That's why flu vaccines only work on particular strains, and are yearly. Each shot contains multiple vaccines for different strains, and doesn't cover all strains. Only what the CDC thinks is the most important strains to immunize against for that year.
Is this a retarded question? I hope people who believe this never ever are allowed to take injections for any medication. For the second part of the question, the answer is called "read how vaccinations (supposedly) work".
8. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification on how a vaccine would prevent viruses from mutating?
It doesn't. Who said vaccines prevent viruses from mutating?
9. What to ask: Could you please provide scientific justification as to how a vaccination can target a virus in an infected individual who does not have the exact viral configuration or strain the vaccine was developed for?
It doesn't, if the immune system cannot recognize that the two strains are similar. That's why flu vaccines only work on particular strains, and are yearly. Each shot contains multiple vaccines for different strains, and doesn't cover all strains. Only what the CDC thinks is the most important strains to immunize against for that year.
(sarcasm on)
Don't you dare bring you facts and data into this! What a buzz-kill! My brothers neighbor had an uncle who took tamiflu and burst into flames!! And after my wife got her shots this year, I lost my best huntin dog the
next day to a bad cough. It had to be related to those darned shots!!
(sarcasm off)
Good post. Have a safe Halloween folks.
redneckmedic
Grandmaster
Good Read Rambone, everyone should know all the information out there before moving forward with treatments. BTW there has been no double blind studies on water either.
If you don't trust medicine, the FDA, Doctors, and so forth, no bother calling 911 if you get hurt/sick or coming to my Trauma Class. Its just going to end up in evidence based medicine. As a paramedic I give people medication all the time that aren't 100% proven. Medications I gave just a few years ago have either been removed or swapped out with something new. BTW there has been no double blind studies on water either.
Most people don't understand that practicing medicine is just that. All people have the possiblity of reacting differently to each treatment pattern. But we play the % rule. Do the best for the most amount of people.
With that said... I am not getting a H1N1 vaccine, however I will get the standard influenza shot this year, as it has killed more people this year than pig flu.
Hmmm, the unilateral deafness from nerve damage that I sustained immediately after receiving a vaccination at age 10 must not actually exist. Also, the diagnosis of it being caused by the MMR vaccine by the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN must also have never happened.
Funny also that the federal gov't has established a no-fault settlement system for those injured by vaccines. See Below"
HRSA - National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
Additionally, it is astounding that they specifically compensate for neurological conditions like "Brachial Neuritis." See Below:
HRSA - National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
I'm not trashing all vaccines or even saying you should not get them. I still get them but only when I consider it truly necessary. However, pretending that this isn't an issue or doesn't happen is IMO willful blindness.
Joe
public servant
Grandmaster
Good Read Rambone, everyone should know all the information out there before moving forward with treatments. BTW there has been no double blind studies on water either.
If you don't trust medicine, the FDA, Doctors, and so forth, no bother calling 911 if you get hurt/sick or coming to my Trauma Class. Its just going to end up in evidence based medicine. As a paramedic I give people medication all the time that aren't 100% proven. Medications I gave just a few years ago have either been removed or swapped out with something new. BTW there has been no double blind studies on water either.
Most people don't understand that practicing medicine is just that. All people have the possiblity of reacting differently to each treatment pattern. But we play the % rule. Do the best for the most amount of people.
With that said... I am not getting a H1N1 vaccine, however I will get the standard influenza shot this year, as it has killed more people this year than pig flu.
Use credible information to make informed decision. Internet forums, in my opinion don't qualify as such for medical advice. They are however, great sources of opinions.If you trust your family doctor...ask their advice. But know there is always the possibility of a negative reaction to any medication. How many people each year die from a reaction to simple aspirin or other NSAID meds? Approximately 20 to 25 per million.
Relax folks, nobody is taking away your vaccines. Just trying to raise the wool a little bit.
The simple fact is that the "credible" sources are the ones that want you to get vaccines for everything. The "credible" sources are the backed by the patent holders and the companies standing to make billions of dollars. You can base your decisions off what the Government tells you, or on things you read on the internet. It's a personal decision. If you want to hear more than what is shown on the back of a prescription label, then read on.
Vaccines, in my opinion, should only even be considered for the most dire of diseases. If you want to get a vaccine for the chicken pox, the annual flu, genital warts, skinned knees, and hurt feelings, then you are opening up a larger window for problems to you and your family.
Everybody keeps saying that all medicines are dangerous.
Are you the type of person who takes a drug for everything and anything under the sun, or are you guys the kind who go to the doctor when you are actually sick? Do you try out dozens of prescription medications on yourself to see when one of them will finally have a reaction on you? I'm guessing you guys are relatively normal folks who just take meds when something is wrong. Vaccines work the opposite way. And when they fail, it is usually blamed on your genetics.
How long do you reckon a new medicine takes to develop? CNN reports that human trials of the H1N1 vaccine began in August 2009. So we have the comfort of knowing that our loving Government caretakers diligently spent a couple weeks testing their new moneymaker. These are the credible sources that have verified all the other vaccines you continue to have faith in as well.
The "credible" sources say that neurological damage is just not true. But I have seen numerous cases that speaks the contrary. Yes guys, even sources that were from offline!
My own sister had a seizure after taking the Gardasil vaccine. Within seconds of getting injected she started having violent spasms and blacked out. The doctors blamed the episode on what she ate for breakfast.... :wtf:
Also, I have a friend who spent time in the Air Force. Being in the military, she has no say as to what she received in terms of vaccines, they are used as guinea pigs. She received a set of vaccines that gave her 3 years of misery and forced her to change her career. Within days of receiving her required vaccine cocktail she had a seizure and lost all use of her body. It was determined that she developed Guillain-Barre Syndrome (a common syndrome that coincidentally shows up after taking vaccines). She spent the next 3 years slowly regaining control of her body, relearning to walk, relearning to write, relearning to do everything we take for granted. She will never fully recover, and still has lost sensation in her feet and hands. She stumbles a lot and slurs her speech if she doesn't make an effort to overcome the lack of feeling in her body. She was an air-traffic controller, and due to physical requirements placed on the job-title, she will never qualify for her chosen career-choice again, thanks to vaccines. Oh, and they gave her an experimental pneumonia vaccine, which ironically, gave her a nasty strain of viral-pneumonia for a full 12 months - as she was bedridden and paralyzed. Of course, her Government doctors denied that the vaccines caused these things. Must be genetics.
Oh, and Fargo spoke up and told us of his reaction to vaccines as well. There are plenty of recent newspaper headlines as well. None of these articles were formally approved by the CDC or President Obama, so I don't know if they are worth posting.
This is the chemical structure of Thimerosal, a preservative that is used in the majority of all vaccines used today. The symbol "Hg" stands for Mercury, a toxic heavy metal element.
Nobody has a problem admitting that Mercury is a toxin, a poison, a carcinogen. But for some reason, the "credible" sources have trouble condemning the use of Thimerosal in vaccines. Someone tell me why you would want to inject your infant child with a dose of mercury to prevent them from getting an sexually-transmitted disease?!?
You guys can mock and naysay all day long. It surely isn't going to put me or my loved ones in line to get our Government-recommended injections. I'm just here to provide a little info to those who aren't too threatened by hearing the un-approved side of the issue.
Talking vaccines is as touchy as talking politics. Things change when you get "mugged."
The simple fact is that the "credible" sources are the ones that want you to get vaccines for everything. The "credible" sources are the backed by the patent holders and the companies standing to make billions of dollars. You can base your decisions off what the Government tells you, or on things you read on the internet. It's a personal decision. If you want to hear more than what is shown on the back of a prescription label, then read on.
Vaccines, in my opinion, should only even be considered for the most dire of diseases. If you want to get a vaccine for the chicken pox, the annual flu, genital warts, skinned knees, and hurt feelings, then you are opening up a larger window for problems to you and your family.
Everybody keeps saying that all medicines are dangerous.
Are you the type of person who takes a drug for everything and anything under the sun, or are you guys the kind who go to the doctor when you are actually sick? Do you try out dozens of prescription medications on yourself to see when one of them will finally have a reaction on you? I'm guessing you guys are relatively normal folks who just take meds when something is wrong. Vaccines work the opposite way. And when they fail, it is usually blamed on your genetics.How long do you reckon a new medicine takes to develop? CNN reports that human trials of the H1N1 vaccine began in August 2009. So we have the comfort of knowing that our loving Government caretakers diligently spent a couple weeks testing their new moneymaker. These are the credible sources that have verified all the other vaccines you continue to have faith in as well.
The "credible" sources say that neurological damage is just not true. But I have seen numerous cases that speaks the contrary. Yes guys, even sources that were from offline!
My own sister had a seizure after taking the Gardasil vaccine. Within seconds of getting injected she started having violent spasms and blacked out. The doctors blamed the episode on what she ate for breakfast.... :wtf:
Also, I have a friend who spent time in the Air Force. Being in the military, she has no say as to what she received in terms of vaccines, they are used as guinea pigs. She received a set of vaccines that gave her 3 years of misery and forced her to change her career. Within days of receiving her required vaccine cocktail she had a seizure and lost all use of her body. It was determined that she developed Guillain-Barre Syndrome (a common syndrome that coincidentally shows up after taking vaccines). She spent the next 3 years slowly regaining control of her body, relearning to walk, relearning to write, relearning to do everything we take for granted. She will never fully recover, and still has lost sensation in her feet and hands. She stumbles a lot and slurs her speech if she doesn't make an effort to overcome the lack of feeling in her body. She was an air-traffic controller, and due to physical requirements placed on the job-title, she will never qualify for her chosen career-choice again, thanks to vaccines. Oh, and they gave her an experimental pneumonia vaccine, which ironically, gave her a nasty strain of viral-pneumonia for a full 12 months - as she was bedridden and paralyzed. Of course, her Government doctors denied that the vaccines caused these things. Must be genetics.
Oh, and Fargo spoke up and told us of his reaction to vaccines as well. There are plenty of recent newspaper headlines as well. None of these articles were formally approved by the CDC or President Obama, so I don't know if they are worth posting.
This is the chemical structure of Thimerosal, a preservative that is used in the majority of all vaccines used today. The symbol "Hg" stands for Mercury, a toxic heavy metal element.
Nobody has a problem admitting that Mercury is a toxin, a poison, a carcinogen. But for some reason, the "credible" sources have trouble condemning the use of Thimerosal in vaccines. Someone tell me why you would want to inject your infant child with a dose of mercury to prevent them from getting an sexually-transmitted disease?!?
You guys can mock and naysay all day long. It surely isn't going to put me or my loved ones in line to get our Government-recommended injections. I'm just here to provide a little info to those who aren't too threatened by hearing the un-approved side of the issue.
Talking vaccines is as touchy as talking politics. Things change when you get "mugged."
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lolz.
rambone, youre posts are hilarious. i wont even bother to attempt to counter any of it or interject logic; its much more fun just to read the crap you post. a naturopathic doctor and cancer researcher? lmfao
this crap is so funny, i almost want to rep you.
You mentioned Thimerosal. It is not a vaccine. It is used in vaccines, and other uses. It was first discovered in 1927.
Thiomersal controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How does this show vaccines are bad inherently? Your first post questions the effectiveness of vaccines, not that their delivery could be coupled with a dangerous agent.
[STRIKE]
The other person asked for links showing the flu vaccine is unsafe today.
Unfortunately there's no Thimerosal in them.[/STRIKE]
But you are right, the government can make mistakes. They do approve drugs that are later found to be dangerous. Not just in vaccines but other medication too. One recent famous one is Vioxx.
Medicine should not be mandatory. I agree. But don't say vaccines are useless as justification. They shouldn't be mandatory because we should be able to decide what we do with our bodies. If the other guy doesn't want a precautionary rabies vaccine after being bitten, well that's his problem. If someone doesn't want the hepatitis vaccine and gets infected, too bad, but at least let us know so we can take precautions to prevent infection from them.
A side note. A lot of people seem to have firsthand vaccine related problems. If true, I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you can get reparation from the vaccine makers.
The CDC in 1999 asked vaccine makers to remove Thimerosal as a precaution because of some evidence it was dangerous. They removed it soon after.
Thiomersal controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How does this show vaccines are bad inherently? Your first post questions the effectiveness of vaccines, not that their delivery could be coupled with a dangerous agent.
[STRIKE]
The other person asked for links showing the flu vaccine is unsafe today.
Unfortunately there's no Thimerosal in them.[/STRIKE]
But you are right, the government can make mistakes. They do approve drugs that are later found to be dangerous. Not just in vaccines but other medication too. One recent famous one is Vioxx.
Medicine should not be mandatory. I agree. But don't say vaccines are useless as justification. They shouldn't be mandatory because we should be able to decide what we do with our bodies. If the other guy doesn't want a precautionary rabies vaccine after being bitten, well that's his problem. If someone doesn't want the hepatitis vaccine and gets infected, too bad, but at least let us know so we can take precautions to prevent infection from them.
A side note. A lot of people seem to have firsthand vaccine related problems. If true, I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you can get reparation from the vaccine makers.
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Thimerosal... bad.
I got a seasonal flu vaccine this year. I believe it contained Thimerosal. They offered Thimerosal free vaccines, but they were more expensive.
My pregnant wife will get an H1N1 vaccine as soon as possible (probably wednesday at the marion county clinic). We will double check that the vaccines are Thimerosal free before she gets it (as thimerosal is not approved for pregnant women).
When I asked for some credible studies, I wasn't asking for the CDC or presidential sign off... just something credible. I think everybody agrees that Thimerosal has negative effects, so that link doesn't really provide much additional information.
I got a seasonal flu vaccine this year. I believe it contained Thimerosal. They offered Thimerosal free vaccines, but they were more expensive.
My pregnant wife will get an H1N1 vaccine as soon as possible (probably wednesday at the marion county clinic). We will double check that the vaccines are Thimerosal free before she gets it (as thimerosal is not approved for pregnant women).
When I asked for some credible studies, I wasn't asking for the CDC or presidential sign off... just something credible. I think everybody agrees that Thimerosal has negative effects, so that link doesn't really provide much additional information.
My mistake. There is still some flu vaccines with thimerosal.
I'm sure the recent 2009 study will further hasten the disuse of thimerosal. From the FAQ it seems until recently there has still been no evidence of causal linkage between thimerosal and autism.
Thimerosal in Vaccines Questions and Answers
I'm sure the recent 2009 study will further hasten the disuse of thimerosal. From the FAQ it seems until recently there has still been no evidence of causal linkage between thimerosal and autism.
Thimerosal in Vaccines Questions and Answers
"Its curious how nowadays, 1 in 150 kids have autism. I wonder if it could be linked to our obsession with vaccinating kids for everything imaginable...." or obesity, or cell phones, or lead in the chocolate, or soft drinks. Are we losing more kids to FAT than drugs?
"Rambone- I'm just here to provide a little info to those who aren't too threatened by hearing the un-approved side of the issue."
"RNMedic- Most people don't understand that practicing medicine is just that. All people have the possiblity of reacting differently to each treatment pattern. But we play the % rule. Do the best for the most amount of people."
Two sides of the same story, you keep digging for the flyers, but please remember that this does not have to be all-or-nothing.
"Rambone- I'm just here to provide a little info to those who aren't too threatened by hearing the un-approved side of the issue."
"RNMedic- Most people don't understand that practicing medicine is just that. All people have the possiblity of reacting differently to each treatment pattern. But we play the % rule. Do the best for the most amount of people."
Two sides of the same story, you keep digging for the flyers, but please remember that this does not have to be all-or-nothing.
SavageEagle
Grandmaster
- Apr 27, 2008
- 19,568
- 38
Rambone, it's a losing battle with these people. Let them say what they will. People are going to take the shot. No matter that most people who do get sick anyway. It doesn't matter to them because they trust the FDA. 
I would love to argue with you all in this thread but I know that no matter what I say you will come back with some internet based response and not prove to me that Natural Cures are a waste of time or less effective than man-made drugs. It doesn't matter to you that people's immune systems are being annihilated due to man-made drugs and that people beat these diseases for centuries using NATURAL MEANS.
Believe what you want. Take the shots. Take the drugs. It's your body.
I would love to argue with you all in this thread but I know that no matter what I say you will come back with some internet based response and not prove to me that Natural Cures are a waste of time or less effective than man-made drugs. It doesn't matter to you that people's immune systems are being annihilated due to man-made drugs and that people beat these diseases for centuries using NATURAL MEANS.
Believe what you want. Take the shots. Take the drugs. It's your body.
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