Considering a red dot for my defensive pistol

[lovemachine]

With the shattered glass, were you still able to use the back up sights? Or did the shattered glass interfere with that ability?

 

[esrice]

With the shattered glass, were you still able to use the back up sights? Or did the shattered glass interfere with that ability?

I could absolutely still use the irons. The window that shattered wasn't the large main window, but rather a very small one that sits at the back of the optic housing, where the beam first comes out.

 

[Rookie]

When it warms up, you'll have to finish testing...

 

[esrice]

When it warms up, you'll have to finish testing...

By then you should be getting around better and can join me yourself. Then YOU can break it.

 

[Rookie]

By then, I'll have the forward set sear to play with.

BTW, breaking it is one thing. Spitting on it? Pistols at dawn. 100 yards sound good?

 

[esrice]

Spitting on it?

It was supposed to fix it.

 

[Rookie]

I really think it breaking was a fluke. I've never heard of anyone having that problem before. Maybe Cedartop will chime in, he's been around them a lot longer.

 

[lovemachine]

It was supposed to fix it.

James Yeager's spit probably would have fixed it....

 

[phylodog]

That's the first I've heard of that problem with an RMR, that's interesting. I've shot mine in temps well below freezing a couple of times now and fortunately haven't experienced any malfunctions yet aside from the windage knob drifting after a particularly heavy "test" (something like 90 rounds in 3 minutes).

 

[cedartop]

I really think it breaking was a fluke. I've never heard of anyone having that problem before. Maybe Cedartop will chime in, he's been around them a lot longer.

I was very surprised when Evan told me about this. We sell and see a lot of RMR equipped pistols. There are issues from time to time like you would expect whenever a lot of something is out there. However most of what I have heard and seen is electronic related, loose diodes or wiring, I don't know something like that. (Not an electronic engineer here.) Personally I only have about 6,000 rds downrange with mine, but it has led a pretty rough life as it is my EDC. No issues yet.

Evan, I am curious, what do you think would be different about a purpose built for pistols unit? IMHO you can't go much smaller and still be useful.

 

[esrice]

I really think it breaking was a fluke.

Oh I think it was too. There are way too many positive experiences to say the window shattering was anything more than an anomaly.

While I still think the RMR is a fantastic optic, the experience simply gave me a reality check and caused me to slow down long enough to think about waiting for whatever technology is right around the bend.

Evan, I am curious, what do you think would be different about a purpose built for pistols unit? IMHO you can't go much smaller and still be useful.

In a perfect world, I would like to see something where the optic hood and window is integrated into a pistol slide itself. I'd like to see smoother, less boxy lines, and a dot height that didn't require taller-than-normal backup iron sights. Think of a smooth pistol slide with a "bump" behind the ejection port that housed the optic window.

 

[Rookie]

Changes I'd like to see:
-a little narrower width so it would blend into the slide a little better
-lower profile so you could mill and still use standard sights
-rear, adjustable sight integrated into the red dot sight

 

[rwhitmore8]

The gun does look pretty cool. I'm not sure, but I would think that any kind of optic that spends its life on a moving part such as the slide of a handgun would have a hard time holding a true zero due to the constant thrashing it would take from the abrupt stop and go back and forth action from the gun cycling rounds. Not to mention the beating it takes from everyday carrying.

I think it would be more practical to use a laser instead. For me atleast, using a gun for defensive purposes is all about timing. Chances are your not always going to have time to stare down that sight, find the dot, and center it on your target all while hoping its still zero'd from the last time you sighted it in. I think you stand to have a far more succesful out come using something like a crimson trace laser. From the moment your hand touches that grip that laser is working. And with youre adrenaline pumping a million mph, it might be easier for you to look for a red/green dot on your target rather than lining up any kind of sight.

I think people are starting to take video games too seriously when it comes to accessorizing their weapons. What may help you operate faster in Call of Duty doesn't always pertain to real life situations.In the end the whole point of that gun is to save your life, so whatever you can do with it that can better the odds for survival the better.

 

[phylodog]

Lasers slow shooters down. I've tested it several times, with different skill levels and have observed consistent results.

I've tested the RMR. It is no more difficult to use it than the sights on the slide. It does take a bit of getting used to but it becomes instinctive quickly just like using the sights. If the RMR fails, the sights are still there as a backup.

I don't play video games. I test new equipment, keep what works and discard what doesn't. I've tested lasers and discarded them, the RMR remains on my pistol.

Have you tried one?

 

[esrice]

I think it would be more practical to use a laser instead.

Have you ever used a red dot sight before, like on a rifle? It is very different than using a laser sight.

It is MUCH harder to see the dot of a laser on a target than it is to see the dot of a RDS superimposed on a target. Especially when you consider lighting and weather conditions.

I agree that we shouldn't be accessorizing our weapons based on video games, but I think most times video games are following real life technology, not vice versa.

 

[rwhitmore8]

I never said I didnt like red dots. I have several long guns equipped with them. It just didnt seem practical to me on a handgun. Ive shot a full frame revolver with a red dot. It was nice, but it seemed like it slowed me down while firing from a holster draw. Maybe its just me. It was just an opinion. I just think they are nice when your using something that you have shouldered constantly like a tactical rifle. I honestly just use regular iron sights on my carry gun, but i have a smith m&p with the crimson trace and it is very easy to follow the laser from a draw for me. Then again thats just my opinion.

 

[phylodog]

I find them much more practical than a laser. Like your Crimson Trace my RMR is on as soon as I grab the gun but the bad guy doesn't get to see it. It is just as easy to use as a laser, both put a red dot onto my target. The primary difference is with my RMR I'm stabilizing a red dot at the end of my arms versus stabilizing a red or green dot several feet to several yards away.

With either I've got both eyes open and I'm focused on the threat but with the RMR I'm not pointing a line to myself and if the RDS fails I'm still looking across my sights and can use them instantly.

 

[jeepfreek]

I was liking what I seen from these guys.

Work Prices for Templar Custom Arms

 

[FrankTank83]

It's bad juju to rely solely on an electronic sighting system. I ran AR15 rifles with iron sights and pistols with regular sights long before shooting either with a red dot. I still practice regularly with irons on both systems.

First of all, Thanks for the detailed review esrice, I have been curious about the RMRs as well. As far as practicing with backup irons, is there no way to turn the red dot off to practice without it? I have a C-more tactical red dot on my 9mm ar, and like practicing without the dot on for this reason.

 

[phylodog]

Several versions of the RMR are always on. I can turn my RM07 off.