Cheap VS Expensive

[Route 45]

I've got a Holosun and a couple of Sig Romeo 5 optics on my AR's, they've held zero and have worked fine over 3 years now. I've got flip-up Troy iron back up sights on the rifles, so if an optic goes down unexpectedly, I'm not exactly dead in the water.

Optics on handguns are a non-issue, because my Trijicon HDs and Truglo Tritium Pros always work.

 

[Creedmoor]

I do not spend a lot of time on the range and maybe I am missing something, but I have put a lot of rounds down range and I rarely run into issues. People tell me not to go with a cheaper gun because it is prone to jamming. People tell me cheap optics do not hold zero. Or, that expensive gear is totally worth it. Well, I shoot a lot of cheap guns and I have never had a gun jam on me. I have used cheap optics and they hold zero through rough and tumble situation and I have yet to have a battery run out on me. And, I have both airsoft and military grade equipment and sometimes airsoft gear works and feels just as nice for a fraction of the price. I have the occasional bad round, but that is the extent of my issues. Maybe I am just extremely lucky. So, with my history of smooth operation, I have a hard time justifying dumping money into every little accessory. I guess I will need to borrow some friends gear to compare the quality, but I do not think I can just accept the "Just spend a crap load of money on something because price ensures quality" mindset. Unless someone can drop the blueprints for a Cheap and Expensive optic so I can see for myself what the difference in price is getting me.

Please explain "Your" Rough and Tumble?
I'm going to bet that its a bit different than "mine or my sons"

 

[Creedmoor]

I've got a Holosun and a couple of Sig Romeo 5 optics on my AR's, they've held zero and have worked fine over 3 years now. I've got flip-up Troy iron back up sights on the rifles, so if an optic goes down unexpectedly, I'm not exactly dead in the water.

Optics are a non-issue, because my Trijicons always work.

 

[Bugzilla]

I always try to buy inexpensive but never cheap.

 

[MCgrease08]

I shoot a lot of cheap guns and I have never had a gun jam on me. I have used cheap optics and they hold zero through rough and tumble situation and I have yet to have a battery run out on me.

I find it hard to believe you've never had a gun jam. You're telling us you've never had a stovepipe, failure to eject, double feed or some other stoppage?

Guns jam when you shoot a lot. I don't care if we're talking cheap, middle tier or expensive, they all have the occasional hiccup.

 

[Hohenheim]

Please explain "Your" Rough and Tumble?
I'm going to bet that its a bit different than "mine or my sons"

Dropping, usage, and filth. I will admit I do not go outside shooting when its negative temps out with my optics covered in mud for long durations

 

[Hohenheim]

I find it hard to believe you've never had a gun jam. You're telling us you've never had a stovepipe, failure to eject, double feed or some other stoppage?

Guns jam when you shoot a lot. I don't care if we're talking cheap, middle tier or expensive, they all have the occasional hiccup.

I have seen it happen to others, but I cannot remember a time it happened to me. I like to mag dump a few times towards the end of my range visit so I am shooting with speed as well. Like I said, maybe I am extremely lucky. Kind of like getting smashed or trashed packages from an online store. Never had it happen to me.

 

[Hohenheim]

I always try to buy inexpensive but never cheap.

I agree. I will not argue that milled aluminum or titanium are better than plastic, but if I get aluminum or titanium rails with +-0.01in deviation, then I do not care if they are 20$ or 400$

 

[Creedmoor]

Dropping, usage, and filth. I will admit I do not go outside shooting when its negative temps out with my optics covered in mud for long durations

Thats what I figured, you've never seen things in color, just black and white.

 

[Mgderf]

I'm too poor to be cheap.

I'm so poor I can't pay attention.

 

[88E30M50]

I do not spend a lot of time on the range and maybe I am missing something, but I have put a lot of rounds down range and I rarely run into issues. People tell me not to go with a cheaper gun because it is prone to jamming. People tell me cheap optics do not hold zero. Or, that expensive gear is totally worth it. Well, I shoot a lot of cheap guns and I have never had a gun jam on me. I have used cheap optics and they hold zero through rough and tumble situation and I have yet to have a battery run out on me. And, I have both airsoft and military grade equipment and sometimes airsoft gear works and feels just as nice for a fraction of the price. I have the occasional bad round, but that is the extent of my issues. Maybe I am just extremely lucky. So, with my history of smooth operation, I have a hard time justifying dumping money into every little accessory. I guess I will need to borrow some friends gear to compare the quality, but I do not think I can just accept the "Just spend a crap load of money on something because price ensures quality" mindset. Unless someone can drop the blueprints for a Cheap and Expensive optic so I can see for myself what the difference in price is getting me.

Maybe your kit isn't working as well as you think. I have shot a lot of inexpensive target ammo and yet don't experience 'an occasional bad round'. Could be that you've just come to accept substandard performance out of your equipment.

If you are fine with equipment that has 'an occasional bad round', then more power to ya. I'm not good with that and buy equipment that works when I want, and I trust my families safety to equipment that will work if needed.

 

[Hohenheim]

Maybe your kit isn't working as well as you think. I have shot a lot of inexpensive target ammo and yet don't experience 'an occasional bad round'. Could be that you've just come to accept substandard performance out of your equipment.

If you are fine with equipment that has 'an occasional bad round', then more power to ya. I'm not good with that and buy equipment that works when I want, and I trust my families safety to equipment that will work if needed.

I am not going to use my home defense ammo at the range. It is far more likely that the cheap range ammo I am buying is malfunctioning when there is a clear imprint from the firing pin. As opposed to my H&K guns being the culprit. I have never said I use cheap guns, just that I do not see the point in overly expensive attachments.

 

[russc2542]

I do not spend a lot of time on the range and maybe I am missing something, but I have put a lot of rounds down range and I rarely run into issues. People tell me not to go with a cheaper gun because it is prone to jamming. People tell me cheap optics do not hold zero. Or, that expensive gear is totally worth it. Well, I shoot a lot of cheap guns and I have never had a gun jam on me. I have used cheap optics and they hold zero through rough and tumble situation and I have yet to have a battery run out on me. And, I have both airsoft and military grade equipment and sometimes airsoft gear works and feels just as nice for a fraction of the price. I have the occasional bad round, but that is the extent of my issues. Maybe I am just extremely lucky. So, with my history of smooth operation, I have a hard time justifying dumping money into every little accessory. I guess I will need to borrow some friends gear to compare the quality, but I do not think I can just accept the "Just spend a crap load of money on something because price ensures quality" mindset. Unless someone can drop the blueprints for a Cheap and Expensive optic so I can see for myself what the difference in price is getting me.

Gonna be hard because it isn't in the blueprints. It's in the materials, manufacturing, and QC. It's hard to describe statistical QC in a reasonable length post (and while I understand it, I don't teach it). Parts from 2 companies might both say +/- .01 but one has 80% in that range and catches 90% of the outliers, the other has 90% in that range and catches 80% of the outliers. maybe both have a similar portion +/-.01 but one has 50% within .001 and the other has 90% within .001. Both are good enough but one is measurably better.

Things like the size and distance of the eyebox, focal distance limits, exit pupil diameter, etc are easy but glass clarity is hard to measure, sure there are resolving standards but it's hard to objectively quantify because those standards really come down to a human looking at them. Then there's coatings and color transmission. Glass isn't equally clear to the entire spectrum, even in the narrow bit we call the visible spectrum.

 

[Hohenheim]

Ok, someone give me an expensive brand that they think is worth every penny and I will find their suppliers, mill specs, and patents. Then I will do some calculations to get some ballpark costs and see for myself.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

When I can't afford the good stuff new, I find the good stuff used or on sale. I don't buy cheap new stuff. Even if it's just a range toy, if it failed I would be grumpy. I bought one cheap eotech on eBay they was mis-advertised, it was a knockoff, and it went in the trash before I even mounted it.

 

[Creedmoor]

I am not going to use my home defense ammo at the range. It is far more likely that the cheap range ammo I am buying is malfunctioning when there is a clear imprint from the firing pin. As opposed to my H&K guns being the culprit. I have never said I use cheap guns, just that I do not see the point in overly expensive attachments.

Wait a minute, let us go back a few of your posts.
I wasn't aware that HK built cheap firearms.. LOL

Post #40
I do not spend a lot of time on the range and maybe I am missing something, but I have put a lot of rounds down range and I rarely run into issues. People tell me not to go with a cheaper gun because it is prone to jamming. People tell me cheap optics do not hold zero. Or, that expensive gear is totally worth it. Well, I shoot a lot of cheap guns and I have never had a gun jam on me. I have used cheap optics and they hold zero through rough and tumble situation and I have yet to have a battery run out on me. And, I have both airsoft and military grade equipment and sometimes airsoft gear works and feels just as nice for a fraction of the price. I have the occasional bad round, but that is the extent of my issues. Maybe I am just extremely lucky. So, with my history of smooth operation, I have a hard time justifying dumping money into every little accessory. I guess I will need to borrow some friends gear to compare the quality, but I do not think I can just accept the "Just spend a crap load of money on something because price ensures quality" mindset. Unless someone can drop the blueprints for a Cheap and Expensive optic so I can see for myself what the difference in price is getting me.

 

[Creedmoor]

Ok, someone give me an expensive brand that they think is worth every penny and I will find their suppliers, mill specs, and patents. Then I will do some calculations to get some ballpark costs and see for myself.

Schmidt Bender 3-27x56 PM II High Power
ACOG USMC 4 x 32 TA31RCO-A4CP

 

[Ruger_Ronin]

I have seen this frequently. A company comes in, realizes that they can produce similar quality for a fraction of the cost, kicks the competition's butt, and then joins their competition in coasting on their name recognition. So my question would be this: What is that company that produces quality product for reasonable prices and is yet to price gouge based on their brand recognition?

Primary Arms

 

[88E30M50]

Primary Arms

I'd add Holosun to that list. But, I'm thinking this discussion is more about buying a $69 Amazon sourced, Chinese built knockoff though.

 

[88E30M50]

Years ago, I bought a cheap NCStar scout scope to use to try out a scout concept rifle. It did not hold up well to centerfire rifle recoil. Internally, it broke, and lenses rattle around in there. That's the level of cheap that I think has no place on a weapon that is trusted for the protection of life and country