Cattle.... Upcreek

[CountryBoy19]

Just because you farm you are given a free pass to pollute the creek? Im not saying they cant have cattle, just that the OP may need to make sure they are responsible with runoff, etc. and are being a good, responsible neighbor.

Pollute? What is pollution? Is there a level at which animal dropping in a natural body of water are no longer just a natural part of NATURE and are now pollution?

I completely understand wanting a responsible neighbor and all, but I think the "city folk" are getting a bit carried away here. I doubt there is a body of water in existence in this entire country that is completely free from animal droppings. Animal droppings don't automatically mean pollution and the presence of animals doesn't mean your creek is polluted. Even if the water changes in the creek it doesn't mean it's polluted, it means it's changed.

IGW, I can totally sympathize with you about the situation, but there isn't much that can be done except make a good friend out of the neighbor and express your concerns a little. It's a delicate subject so approach it with "finesse". There are always "city folk" flocking to the countryside where people/families have been making their living for decades in a rural area. They don't take too kindly to those people buying a small plot of land and instantly thinking they have a stake in things. These people have been living a way of life for a while and they don't take kindly to people trying to force things on them. If the land-owner feels threatened or feels like you're being unreasonable he may increase the number of cattle on that property to intentionally change the creek just to spite you.

That being said, don't blow this out of proportion before you even know that there is an issue...

 

[Michigan Slim]

Take pictures now. Make sure they have a date and time stamp. If you see degradation of the stream and banks, IDEM should get a call and your pictures entered as evidence of the degradation. They will contact the landowner and work with him to change the situation. They DO NOT have the right to degrade the waters of the State, ie OUR waters. The State has water quality standards that cover livestock production. No free pass because your a farmer, etc.
Also, is it considered a navigable waterway? I'll wager it is. If so, blocking it with a fence may be a no-no in it's own right. They don't own the creek, WE do, as residents of the State.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Not a navigable waterway.

 

[Michigan Slim]

You would be surprised as to what is considered one. If not, the rest still applies. Good luck buddy, but wait and see. The sky may not be falling.

 

[17 squirrel]

Maybe retraining ??

 

[eldirector]

By your original description, it may very well be navigable. Check it here:
NRC: Navigable Waterways Roster

 

[ghitch75]

IDEM might do something if it is private deal but with a state run deal you might as well forget it!!!!!!!

 

[IndyGunworks]

its not on the list of Indiana navigable waterways.

 

[yote hunter]

I feel safe to say that somewhere up stream there is prob. cattle, horses, sheep or something animal related, even deer, coons using the water as well so the worry of the cows next door have just brought it to light ??? I would just wait to see what happens or go to the new land owner and ask how they are going to use it, and let them know your family swims/plays in the creek and see what they have to say if your really that worried about it ???? As long as your not drinking it you should be ok, the pee or poop will just wash down stream anyway...

 

[Mark-DuCo]

I would talk to him before doing anything, it may be for a few horses or maybe he just wanted to clear the land and keep it clear. I don't know to many millionaires that would decide to start up a cattle farm. I'm sure they are out there, but I know if I was a millionaire I would be buying a big patch of land just to enjoy and not dealing with cattle.

 

[17 squirrel]

Jeesh,., some of you guys are like a bunch of old women here, maybe the new owner will do nothing with the land, maybe he will build a new home on the land, maybe he will plow the land, maybe he will fill it up with cows. Christ its his land. Why run around and wring your hands for most likely nothing. He's done nothing wrong. Most likely he will be a good steward of the land.
I have never heard my GFather or my father ask,., hey did you see all that cow poo floating down the creek this morning. Better tell the kids not to swim today. I own a few acres myself and livestock being upstream has never stopped my fat a$$ from cooling off in the creek, nor have I ever giving a second thought about what happens upstream. I find it interesting you can buy a piece of property and build building and do what you want with your place, but others that have not impacted you at this time are a problem.
I'll give you a word on living outside of the city, in most cases mind your own business, and your neighbor's will mind there's. And harmony will abound.

 

[Dirty Steve]

Doesn't matter if it is navigable, it is still considered "Waters of the State" and as such is a jurisdictional waterway. The only issue of concern will likely be degradation of the stream bank causing erosion. Pee and poop from runoff is unavoidable, even if the cattle are not actually in the creek. You will have to just deal with it. Indian Creek in Morgan Co. near us has a very high level of fecal coli due to farms upstream in Johnson Co. High levels of fecal coli is just part of living in the Country in an area with livestock. Subdivision detention ponds with an abundance of geese have the same issue,...extremely high levels of fecal coli. You don't see people complaining about that behind their suburban houses because they likely have no idea.

Make friends with him and share your concerns. If he says pi$$ off, that's just how it's going to be. If not, you may gain a friend.

Dirty Steve

 

[HamsterStyle]

You should see what I do in the creek a little further up stream.

 

[singlesix]

NIMBY

 

[Michigan Slim]

E. coli and fecal coliform. Both indicators of fecal contamination and normal in all water bodies.

 

[17 squirrel]

E. coli and fecal coliform. Both indicators of fecal contamination and normal in all water bodies.

Momma says, that's the reason a frogs a$$ is water tight..

 

[indygunguy]

Nick - I'm no expert, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but...

IIRC, the general rule of thumb is 1 head of cattle per 2 acres of land, maximum. So if he's bought 64 acres, and he wants to keep the max amount of cattle, that would be roughly 30 head. In my mind, if the stream is 25 yards wide and 4 feet deep, that is a TON of moving water, and I suspect you wont notice 30 head of cattle upstream. --- That's just the way I'm thinking about it.

 

[66chevelle]

I am pretty sure that Caldwell still runs cattle in the creek about 2-3 miles up from you. You never know maybe Mr. Tyner is going to block the cattle from the creek and use a pump system to keep his cows watered. The farmer I used to work for got a big tax credit or grant ( I cant remember now) for blocking his cows out of a stream just north of Greenfield.

 

[sbrville]

I May be bias as I have raised cattle my whole life but just see what he does before getting too worried. If he is using it for a cow/calf herd there won't be that many out there. If he is feeding them out on it I still would say they won't be packed out there. I grew up playing in the creek in a cattle pasture. As long as he is responsible with it you shouldn't even notice anything. If he isn't then there are things you can do(report it). As far as the cattle getting out, it does happen and you are right flooding is hard on the fences, but he should take care of any damages....should. Some farms have a liability insurance policy for such things, but do remember the building and maintenance on the joining fence is half your responsibility. He may just take care of it on his own (most do)but he doesn't have to. I guess my point is I would just give it some time before getting to worked up. Just my two cents. Good luck sb

 

[Aggar]

Go talk to him and and get on good terms with him. Offer to help with some things. This will get you farther with them rather then being a pain In their butt right off the bat. Is way if there is a problem it's better to have a good relationship with him. Don't be the guy that complains every time something little happens.