Carl Sagan And Government

[mrjarrell]

Mr. Sagan was right and the Know Nothings are even more firmly in control than they were when he was still with us. The populace is uninformed and the people who are supposedly the movers and shapers of government are reveling in their ignorance. It's no wonder we rate so far behind other countries when it comes to the sciences.

[video=youtube_share;_iyFw8UF85A]http://youtu.be/_iyFw8UF85A[/video]

 

[gstanley102]

Few truer words have come from a scientist in the last couple of decades.

 

[Denny347]

I just watched this from a posting on Facebook. What a vision into the future.

 

[Twangbanger]

It's a good clip of a good interview. Wherever you stand on the political spectrum, you need to think about it. His comment that, without scientific skepticism, "...we're up for grabs, by whatever charlatan...comes ambling down the pike..." is being played out every day on a number of topics. Think about global warming. Think about certain sects of XXXXX (edit..deleted) out there, which are hammering into their believers' minds that you can't be a good XXXXX(edit..deleted) if they think the Earth is older than 6,000 years old, and that carbon dating is a lie and the mathematics of exponential decay were made up for the purpose of duping people...etc, etc, etc.

People are getting dumber, on both ends of the spectrum, and we'd better reverse that. (Rant-fest about public schools may now ensue...)

 

[TiminMishawaka]

The last I checked, Christians don't tax you for their age of the earth theory. Stick to topic, which is Government leaders. Don't use it as an opportunity to attack faiths.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

If we maintained our skepticism rather than elevate science and scientists near religious and high priest levels, we might not have wasted all those resources on (among other things) man made global warming and man made ozone hole opening.

 

[pudly]

The science is settled. You must not question it!

 

[Twangbanger]

Timmin,

Actually listen to the clip. The topic is not just about government leaders; it's about the scientific ignorance of the public, and the need for an informed and skeptical public to keep government power in check.

 

[88GT]

ROFLMAO! This is rich. Our population is inadequately prepared to deal with the decisions being made as a result of the advancements of science and technology and it is creating a leverage point for government to assert even more control over the population? Does that about cover it?

I have only one question for you people: who is educating the population?

 

[Denny347]

ROFLMAO! This is rich. Our population is inadequately prepared to deal with the decisions being made as a result of the advancements of science and technology and it is creating a leverage point for government to assert even more control over the population? Does that about cover it?

I have only one question for you people: who is educating the population?

Um, I don't think that is what he was saying at all. If you have a population science illiterate and a governing body science illiterate, you've got a disaster in the making. If the population does not push for it, policymakers are certainly not going to support it.

 

[Denny347]

I have only one question for you people: who is educating the population?

Sigh, we know...we know. Homeschooling is the ONLY way to get quality education. We are all dumbasses if we don't.

 

[88GT]

Um, I don't think that is what he was saying at all. If you have a population science illiterate and a governing body science illiterate, you've got a disaster in the making. If the population does not push for it, policymakers are certainly not going to support it.

Yeah, that's what I said. An uneducated, uninformed populace leaves open a leverage point for government.

Sigh, we know...we know. Homeschooling is the ONLY way to get quality education. We are all dumbasses if we don't.

Nope, didn't say that at all. Is there anything else you'd like to dishonestly misrepresent before we move on? Just so you don't have the excuse of ignorance in the future: I support privately funded education that it chosen by the parents. I don't care how you choose to educate your children. I don't even care IF you educate your children. Just don't ask me to subsidize it, particularly when the administering agent that makes all the decisions is the government. If you want the government responsible for the content of your children's education, that's fine too. You pay for it yourself.

But none of that is really relevant. You didn't address the irony of who is supposed to be educating whom and who benefits from the failure to do a good job.

 

[Denny347]

Yeah, that's what I said. An uneducated, uninformed populace leaves open a leverage point for government.


Nope, didn't say that at all. Is there anything else you'd like to dishonestly misrepresent before we move on? Just so you don't have the excuse of ignorance in the future: I support privately funded education that it chosen by the parents. I don't care how you choose to educate your children. I don't even care IF you educate your children. Just don't ask me to subsidize it, particularly when the administering agent that makes all the decisions is the government. If you want the government responsible for the content of your children's education, that's fine too. You pay for it yourself.

But none of that is really relevant. You didn't address the irony of who is supposed to be educating whom and who benefits from the failure to do a good job.

Look, I honestly know you are a smart lady and I applaud anyone who takes the time to home school their kids. I really do. But when the topic of education comes up, your posts tend to get a tad self righteous. To answer your obvious question, teachers teach my kids. They are guided by state/federal guidelines but teachers are responsible for teaching, while at school. Of course, parents can also nurture scientific curiosity with camps, after school clubs, trips, etc. As to "who benefits". Well, everyone and no one. We do need people to work the menial jobs, their low wages allow cheap services/products to be possible. Political parties love ignorant people, good for both political parties who count on them voting based on sound bites. TV LOVES ignorance. Who else would watch many of these reality TV shows? However, no one REALLY benefits in the long term.

 

[zippy23]

maybe because our "scientists" in this country publics "studies" that are false, and intentionally done so. Our gov't which runs education is more concerned with the voters being raised in public schools where they teach evolution, global warming, tolerance of gays, hatred of christians, hatred of freedom, that the u.s. is bad, etc. they do not teach math, science, english, etc. My daughter is in first grade, i have taught her more in the one hour after school we work together, than the school teachers her daily. Simple things like elementary math, phonics, critical thinking, etc. Our populace is uninformed, and its by design. If you have well educated people that are self reliant, there is very little need for gov't, aside from a military and infrastructure, which is the original intention of the constitution, which the left dearly hates. its very sad, but this is where we are, and trying to rationalize with people brought up this way is harder than changing someone's religion. they will believe it until they die, they will believe the lie even if you prove them wrong. Evidence that you show them is automatically false no matter what since they hate your side. no warming for 16 years admitted by them, life expectancy keeps getting longer, every fact you show them doesnt matter, because they are not educated, they are not free thinkers, they are pure political robots brought up their entire lives as non thinkers, only as followers.

 

[Jludo]

Get out of here Sagan, what with your science and your logic... you kook.

 

[eatsnopaste]

zippy23...did you go to a public school?

 

[jamil]

My only problem with academic science is that it is as political as it is scientific. To think that ethical standards makes them any more honest than politicians ignores human nature.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I read an article yesterday about science and faith. Even though it's not a perfect fit for this topic, the author did hit upon a relevant point that I'll try to summarize. Just like the law, science used to be able to be understood by relatively straight forward observation by reasonably educated people. We can read the US Constitution and the constitutions of our individual states--they're written in fairly readable (though now, somewhat) dated terms. Modern science (string theory, multiple dimensions, etc.) had evolved to the point that no-body necessarily understands it--they rely on "faith" that the theories are correct as many of them are not observable. The law has evolved in a fairly analogous fashion. There are so many laws, regulations, administrative this or that, that we need people with whom we have faith they understand all of its nuances to be able to decipher it for us.

Here's the link, if anybody's interested.
Articles: Faith within Science

 

[Arthur Dent]

Modern science (string theory, multiple dimensions, etc.) had evolved to the point that no-body necessarily understands it--they rely on "faith" that the theories are correct as many of them are not observable.

Theories are believed to be correct until experiments prove them to be true or untrue.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Theories are believed to be correct until experiments prove them to be true or untrue.

I was doing my best to relate what the article said. I would refer you to the provided link.