Can I loan a gun to an out of state friend? for his CCW test?

[Cygnus]

A friend of mine wants to borrow my pistol for his CCW test. He shoots better with it and wants to use it for the test.
Would either of us be breaking any laws?
He is allowed to use any gun he wants for the test so he wouldn't be breaking the rules there. He does own a gun so he's cleared a FFL check recently as well.

It's in Michigan so I can legally carry there. He will transport it in accordance with MI law to the class and range. .
I would drop it off to his house and he's have it for a few weeks to a month.
Anyone see any red flags here?

 

[kludge]

Yeah, I'm seeing red flags.

 

[Cygnus]

Yeah, I'm seeing red flags.

Like..................?

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Gift it to him via FFL.

And then he can re-gift it to you via FFL.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like that'd be easily done and quite legal.

 

[NateIU10]

It's perfectly legal, according to federal law:

A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law.

I don't know if MI has any laws against it though.

 

[Cygnus]

It's perfectly legal, according to federal law:



I don't know if MI has any laws against it though.

Thanks Nate I'll have to check MI law or have him ask his instructor in advance of the class.
I think this would be no different than me bringing 2 guns to hunt with and loaning him one. I think iof the loan were extended there could be issues though.
Waiting for the lagals to chime in.

Hold on.. Your a a law student aren't you???

Where would I check MI law? Call to the state polic would likely work eh?

Thanks again!

 

[NateIU10]

Thanks Nate I'll have to check MI law or have him ask his instructor in advance of the class.
I think this would be no different than me bringing 2 guns to hunt with and loaning him one. I think iof the loan were extended there could be issues though.
Waiting for the lagals to chime in.

Hold on.. Your a a law student aren't you???

Where would I check MI law? Call to the state polic would likely work eh?

Thanks again!

I am not a law student, I just enjoy law (and will be a law student next year )

State Police websites usually have firearms info, the Michigan Code would be the direct wording, or those NRA PDFs on state laws are usually very helpful.

Good luck in your search

 

[Cygnus]

I am not a law student, I just enjoy law (and will be a law student next year )

State Police websites usually have firearms info, the Michigan Code would be the direct wording, or those NRA PDFs on state laws are usually very helpful.

Good luck in your search

Cool thanks again.
I have a "page" out to Gunlawyer as well.

Good luck with law school. That would be my second calling. Came real close but went a different route for grad school. I have an "inner attorney" though

 

[Cygnus]

Anyone else???

 

[kludge]

Like..................?

You transporting a handgun across state line and loaning it to him for a month or two would be seen as a "transfer" and therefore illegal.

Using an FFL would make it legal 100%.

 

[Cygnus]

You transporting a handgun across state line and loaning it to him for a month or two would be seen as a "transfer" and therefore illegal.

Using an FFL would make it legal 100%.

Yeah,

I'm going to call the ISP and MSP and see what they say. A transfer would just make ot too costly and hassled to do. He'd be better off putting the money into a phoniex .22lr. Although I donl;t know of the step down in caliber would help with the accuracy with one of those

 

[boozoo]

You transporting a handgun across state line and loaning it to him for a month or two would be seen as a "transfer" and therefore illegal.

Using an FFL would make it legal 100%.

No expert at all, either, but I don't agree... the federal law clearly calls out loans across states as legal. If it's legal for his friend to have that particular gun in MI, then I'm having a hard time seeing why he can't be loaned the gun? The sticking point that I haven not researched at all would be the state laws...

I do agree that FFL transfers make you "failsafe" in terms of CYA, but really... unless you're dispositioning it on a bound book or transferring NFA's, why the fuss?

 

[sheepdog]

I do not see an issue with it. As long as the friend has a CCW and or hauls it properly in a vehicle (unloaded and the gun and ammo in different areas of the vehicle).

 

[rambone]

It takes a lot of trust to legally transfer your property to a friend in another state.

Would you register your car in a friends' name? Just sayin.'

 

[kludge]

No expert at all, either, but I don't agree... the federal law clearly calls out loans across states as legal. If it's legal for his friend to have that particular gun in MI, then I'm having a hard time seeing why he can't be loaned the gun? The sticking point that I haven not researched at all would be the state laws...

It appears that you have a point... IANAL, etc.

Sec. 922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful - (1) for any person - (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or (B) except a licensed importer or licensed manufacturer, to engage in the business of importing or manufacturing ammunition, or in the course of such business, to ship, transport, or receive any ammunition in interstate or foreign commerce; (2) for any importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector licensed under the provisions of this chapter to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, except that - (A) this paragraph and subsection (b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector from returning a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received; and this paragraph shall not be held to preclude an individual from mailing a firearm owned in compliance with Federal, State, and local law to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; (B) this paragraph shall not be held to preclude a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer from depositing a firearm for conveyance in the mails to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who, pursuant to the provisions of section 1715 of this title, is eligible to receive through the mails pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person, for use in connection with his official duty; and (C) nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as applying in any manner in the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States differently than it would apply if the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the possession were in fact a State of the United States; (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter; (4) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, to transport in interstate or foreign commerce any destructive device, machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986), short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, except as specifically authorized by the Attorney General consistent with public safety and necessity; (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

 

[Cygnus]

It takes a lot of trust to legally transfer your property to a friend in another state.

Would you register your car in a friends' name? Just sayin.'

Right, But I'd let him borrow it.

I've been to busy to make the calls the MSP and ISP. I 'll report back if I find an answer form them.
Also a link to the federal law would be nice. I believe all who have responded but the link would be nice too....

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Right, But I'd let him borrow it.

I've been to busy to make the calls the MSP and ISP. I 'll report back if I find an answer form them.
Also a link to the federal law would be nice. I believe all who have responded but the link would be nice too....

Wasn't aware of this exemption, but as for the direct-from-the-governmental-server link:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+18USC922

 

[sloughfoot]

Lots of panties getting twisted up over nothing. Loan it to him, don't tell anybody, nobody will care. there is no registration in IN or MI.

This is still America after all....

 

[Arm America]

Lots of panties getting twisted up over nothing. Loan it to him, don't tell anybody, nobody will care. there is no registration in IN or MI.

This is still America after all....

I agree with all of the above.

 

[opus1776]

Lots of panties getting twisted up over nothing. Loan it to him, don't tell anybody, nobody will care. there is no registration in IN or MI.

This is still America after all....

Fail.

In MI they don't call it registration, but a 'safety inspection'. EVERY pistol must be taken to the state police so that they can record the serial number and other info about the pistol. Also I believe in MI one cannot loan a pistol to someone who does not have a CCW.