Black powder revolvers

[Delmar]

my daughter really likes the 1858 but doesn't like the high polished trigger guard or the frame in high polish brass either. I figure antiquing it wouldn't be too hard.

I was thinking of polishing the trigger guard on my 58, want to trade? Or you could take the trigger guard off and let it sit in the rain overnight.

What does the wedge do? Is that how you remove the barrel?

Correct, on the Colt clones (51 & 60) The barrel/loading lever assembly comes off by removing the wedge. The 1858 barrel is threaded and screws in.

You guys are determined to turn a 250 day into 600 aren't you?
Unless accuracy really will suffer I am not really looking for a big boom. Especially for her.

Sounds to me like she will really love that 1851 Sheriff model then. It should be very accurate with 17 grains of BP an a little corn meal filler, and It's on sale for $130 right now! You can't beat that with a club.

I really need to find someone local with a home range that will barter usage for brass and steel targets or other shooting setups like a shooting stand or similar.

Start a thread about it. I bet you can find sombody on this forum that can hook you up.

We just never have time to shoot when my back or her leg isn't giving her grief everything is closed or not open yet.

Any private ranges besides porter county cc close to chesterton?

PCCC sounds nice but I just am too embarrassed about trying to join without being able to meet their service requirements and I can't handle sitting through their monthly meeting to find a sponsor.

 

[WLW]

The Colt design is plenty sturdy in a steel frame model, if the parts fit together right, as they did in the original Colt. Problem is that the Italian reproductions are not know for that kind of fit. I would have zero problem with a steel frame 1860 or 1851 but you need be willing to do your homework and make sure any problems with the wedge/arbor fit are corrected right away. If not the 1858 is a better choice. I happen to think the 1858 is a prettier gun as well, but not everyone agrees.

Mine is an Italian clone and the wedge doesn't stay in worth a darn! Any advice on how to remedy that?

 

[Delmar]

Mine is an Italian clone and the wedge doesn't stay in worth a darn! Any advice on how to remedy that?

Define doesn't stay. Does it fit tight but come loose? Does the wedge seem to be wide enough? Is the arbor long enough? By that I mean is the hole that the arbor slides into too deep? One way to check this is to get some small washers, just smaller than the diameter of the arbor and drop one in the hole before you put the barrel on. If the barrel still goes on far enough to get the wedge in the arbor is too short. If the arbor is too short drop another one or two washers in to see how much too short.

 

[buzzard pickins]

I bought all 7 bp revolvers from Cabelas BARGIN CAVE. They do not restock, hence good deals abound,drawback? You have to scrounge.

Second the emotion on Ruger old armys. Since they Quit making them,
value has gone up, but still see them at $250-300 at auctions.
If you want to educate yourself and have a great time go to the fall or spring shoot at Friendship. Dixie gun works is there with a complete line of revolvers. The Root side hammer is a gas. Estate auctions offer good deals on bp. Seems people get these firearms as gifts from loveones and really don't like the "MESS". I have seen Walkers sell at $150-250 and full retail is around $550-600.
Beware once you walk on the DARK side,going back seems mundane.
BP cartrage will consume you from 25-35 to 45-90.
255gr lead over 33gr swiss 1 1/2 FG in 44-40 mucho recoil. and smoke

 

[WLW]

Define doesn't stay. Does it fit tight but come loose? Does the wedge seem to be wide enough? Is the arbor long enough? By that I mean is the hole that the arbor slides into too deep? One way to check this is to get some small washers, just smaller than the diameter of the arbor and drop one in the hole before you put the barrel on. If the barrel still goes on far enough to get the wedge in the arbor is too short. If the arbor is too short drop another one or two washers in to see how much too short.

The wedge will not go all the way in... what stops it is a screw in teh barrel that I assume is suppose to land in a notch in the top of the wedge. I cannot make it happen so the wedge can shake loose. If I remove the screw from the barrel then the wedge goes all the way in!

 

[prtrrssll]

Ive never really givin black powder handguns a chance .I own a couple of 50 cal muzzleloaders and i love them .Does a hand gun reach out to 100 yards are father

 

[oldfb]

Wow thanks for all the insight and link everyone.

I am going to have to decide if I should try the mp n ball or cartridge route. I am assuming the bp reloads would be easier to deal with but not as back to basics.

Does anyone pre load paper chargers instead of flask n funneling? Just tear the paper n pour or does that pose a risk with static or other safety issues?

I am not talking factory preloaded but diy b4 shooting?

 

[Delmar]

The wedge will not go all the way in... what stops it is a screw in teh barrel that I assume is suppose to land in a notch in the top of the wedge. I cannot make it happen so the wedge can shake loose. If I remove the screw from the barrel then the wedge goes all the way in!

Try just leaving the screw out, but if you do that you really need to make sure your arbor is not to short. I have an Uberti that has the arbor too short. I put a washer it the hole every time I put the barrel on to fill the gap. I may eventually add some weld to the end to make it long enough. that would be the permanent fix.

 

[Delmar]

Ive never really givin black powder handguns a chance .I own a couple of 50 cal muzzleloaders and i love them .Does a hand gun reach out to 100 yards are father

If you are asking about hunting, cap and ball revolvers are a no go in Indiana. I'm not that good of a shot but I have heard of people hitting what they aim at from 75 yards pretty well with an 8 inch and if you went with one of those 12inch "buffalo revolvers" I bet you could really have fun from a distance.

 

[Delmar]

Wow thanks for all the insight and link everyone.

I am going to have to decide if I should try the mp n ball or cartridge route. I am assuming the bp reloads would be easier to deal with but not as back to basics.

It all depends what you are looking for. To me cap and ball is a very social thing. It's more fun if you can get a buddy interested, with you. Load and shoot, load and shoot. Cartridge converters are fine, but you are talking more than doubling the cost of the pistol, in many cases. In my opinion you might as well just get a 45 LC that was built for that.

Does anyone pre load paper chargers instead of flask n funneling? Just tear the paper n pour or does that pose a risk with static or other safety issues?

I am not talking factory preloaded but diy b4 shooting?

I just pur it from the flask. Never tried anything else.

 

[Claddagh]

I've dabbled with making paper cartridges off and on over the years. FWIW, back in the C&B revolver's heyday there were a great many of them sold commercially, most with a conical bullet of some sort. IIRC, during the War Between the States both factions purchased and issued hundreds of thousands of them.

It's not necessary to tear the end off a paper revolver cartridge like it was with musket loads. Most were made from "nitrated" cloth or paper and were designed to be inserted directly into the chamber. These materials were highly combustable and wouldn't impede ignition from the cap flash. They were also usually fragile enough to split when compressed in the chamber as the bullet was seated.

I found that cigarette papers were a very inexpensive alternative to the much more costly purpose-made nitrated cartidge paper and a whole lot less hazardous and troublesome than trying to create your own.

The process of putting the cartridges together isn't complicated, but it's time consuming and can get pretty tedious. I always included a treated felt wad between the powder charge and the projectile in mine, just so I could avoid the mess of having to either fill the chamber mouths with grease or deal with ruined cartridges when the soft, low-temp lube on a conical melted and 'killed' the charge.

The Dixie Gun Works catalog has illustrated instructions on making them, and lots of other fascinating stuff, too. Well worth the $5.00 price, IMO!

Reloading metallic cartridges with BP requires some special precautions and procedures. NEVER try to charge them from the same "regular" powder measure you use for smokeless propellents, as the danger of generating a 'spark' from static electricity that will detonate the entire reservoir, with disasterous consequences, is very high. Much safer to use a flask with a tube of the correct volume or buy a specially made BP measure from Lyman, etc.

Mike Venturino, who has an abiding passion for shooting BP cartridges in both rifles and revolvers (and probably has learned as much or more about how to do that successfully as anyone alive) has written extensively on the subject. His books are entertaining, highly informative and well worth reading if this is something you'd like to get into.

These days, I'm like Delmar. It's just a whole lot easier and less trouble to use a flask. No funnel is necessary, and tubes for throwing about any charge volume you'd prefer are cheap and readily available.

 

[Delmar]

The wedge will not go all the way in... what stops it is a screw in teh barrel that I assume is suppose to land in a notch in the top of the wedge. I cannot make it happen so the wedge can shake loose. If I remove the screw from the barrel then the wedge goes all the way in!

OK I have been talking to some of the smart guys about you wedge issue and they say the problem is that your wedge is too narrow. They say that the wedge is not designed to stick out the other side more than a couple tenths of an inch and suggested you need a new wedge. I have a 51 that was badly damaged and the wedge was too narrow I had a buddy ad some metal to the edge of it with a wire feed welder. It worked for a while but the new metal is softer so I had to beat it wider again. I'm told I can harden the steel by heating it cherry red and dropping it in oil.
My wedge was much too narrow. Perhaps you could put yours on an anvil and beat it a few times if it only has to widen a tiny bit.

 

[WLW]

OK I have been talking to some of the smart guys about you wedge issue and they say the problem is that your wedge is too narrow. They say that the wedge is not designed to stick out the other side more than a couple tenths of an inch and suggested you need a new wedge. I have a 51 that was badly damaged and the wedge was too narrow I had a buddy ad some metal to the edge of it with a wire feed welder. It worked for a while but the new metal is softer so I had to beat it wider again. I'm told I can harden the steel by heating it cherry red and dropping it in oil.
My wedge was much too narrow. Perhaps you could put yours on an anvil and beat it a few times if it only has to widen a tiny bit.

Excellent advice...much obliged sir! I own an anvil and forge so I now have a "tweaking" project to work on someday soon (in grad school so time is a bit limited these days). I appreciate your diligence and follow up.

 

[WLW]

If you are asking about hunting, cap and ball revolvers are a no go in Indiana. I'm not that good of a shot but I have heard of people hitting what they aim at from 75 yards pretty well with an 8 inch and if you went with one of those 12inch "buffalo revolvers" I bet you could really have fun from a distance.

Ya know its hard to find a BP handgun that is legal to use while hunting in Indiana. I asked a CO when I was in a NRA reloading class as to why we are not allowed (he was my partner on projects). He said very few C&B's have enough powder capacity to put a projectile down range effective enough to kill a deer humanely unless the hunter were right up on the deer. He told me the single shot guns where you can put 50-100 grs (maybe even more dunno on that) are effective enough. I thought that we pretty enlightening along with a lot more he had to say about guns.

 

[Jack Ryan]

OK I have been talking to some of the smart guys about you wedge issue and they say the problem is that your wedge is too narrow. They say that the wedge is not designed to stick out the other side more than a couple tenths of an inch and suggested you need a new wedge. I have a 51 that was badly damaged and the wedge was too narrow I had a buddy ad some metal to the edge of it with a wire feed welder. It worked for a while but the new metal is softer so I had to beat it wider again. I'm told I can harden the steel by heating it cherry red and dropping it in oil.
My wedge was much too narrow. Perhaps you could put yours on an anvil and beat it a few times if it only has to widen a tiny bit.

If that doesn't make it hard enough then put some charcoal dust on it while it's red hot and you are working it. Then drop it in salt water while it's red hot. Use at least a gallon and the colder the better.

Heating it over and over can take the carbon out and keep it from getting as hard each time you heat it up.

I'd try to work it cold first.

 

[rex soldier]

i've been wanting a black powder pistol for awhile . is this one ok ?

Cabela's -- 1851 Confederate Navy .44-Caliber Sheriff

 

[Delmar]

i've been wanting a black powder pistol for awhile . is this one ok ?

Cabela's -- 1851 Confederate Navy .44-Caliber Sheriff

As brass frame repos go that one should be a lot of fun for a little $$
Just remember you can't load it like you would a steel frame. If you want to shake the whole valley spend another $40
Cabela's -- 1860 Army Steel Sheriff .44-Caliber Revolver and Starter Kit

 

[Delmar]

I don't know why they don't tend to offer the long barrel cap and ball guns in a steel frame, but if you relly wand a uniuqe great shooter, buy this one Cabela's -- 1860 Army Steel Sheriff .44-Caliber Revolver and Starter Kit and this one Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.
and swap the barrels. Sell the brass frame 60 on gunbroker and get your money back and you will be left with a steel frame 1851 with a 12" barrel. Now that's a heck of a pistol!

 

[WLW]

I don't know why they don't tend to offer the long barrel cap and ball guns in a steel frame, but if you relly wand a uniuqe great shooter, buy this one Cabela's -- 1860 Army Steel Sheriff .44-Caliber Revolver and Starter Kit and this one Dixie Gun Works muzzleloading, blackpowder and rare antique gun supplies.
and swap the barrels. Sell the brass frame 60 on gunbroker and get your money back and you will be left with a steel frame 1851 with a 12" barrel. Now that's a heck of a pistol!

Hadn't thought of doing something like that... but dang... that's a great idea!

 

[rex soldier]

all right i just bought a 1860 Army Steel Sheriff .44-Caliber Revolver , should be here in a week so i went a head and bought the ball ammo , the caps and snag some powder off my old man . only thing i don't have is the paper wads , sooo can i just use some tough paper cloth instead ? ya know jerry rig some thing up . i'm also thinking about buying the R&D .45 LC cylinder for it too .