AZ Sheriff "Our government has become our enemy"

[serpicostraight]

LashcoN, I tried to Rep you, but I am out.....

i got him for you

 

[jedi]

 

[lashicoN]

Is it inevitable? Sometimes I wonder, but I all things considered, I don't believe it is. I think if people are looking for the quick, easily located answer, that's what they'll find, but only because that's what some want to find.

I am an Appleseed instructor. I have the capability of shooting with great precision, but it is my hope and my duty to do everything in my power to ensure that any future battles be fought with a pen or keyboard or a ballot.

I honor our Founders. What so many people fail to understand is that they fought, pledging their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor to each other and the cause. They had but two choices: Live under the rule of the King as subjects, little better than slaves or fight with their very lives, committing treason against the Crown. And why? For what purpose did they raise arms? Just to take a chance at a country and form of government that no one had ever even conceived at the time, let alone tried. No, they fought to change the rules. They fought to add a third option to that choice. We have that option. It will not be easy, certainly not at this stage of the battle. It will not go quickly, and indeed, the battle may not be won in our lifetimes, but this is a battle to be fought with words, with votes, with books and with knowledge. Our Founders were very well-informed and very involved in their government: An old woman approached arguably the most respected "elder statesman" of the day as he was leaving the Continental Congress and asked him, "What kind of government have you given us?" We have no comparison today; few of our politicians qualify as statesmen and fewer still are "elder" in anything but chronological age. Be that as it may, when Mr. Benjamin Franklin was asked this question by an everyday citizen, he answered, "A Republic, if you can keep it!" Now how many do you think would have the stones to even ask the question, let alone the intelligence to understand this answer today?

Education is the key. We need to rework the climate, not just change the weather. The only appropriate casualty of this war is apathy, not the lives of Amercans,

Blessings,
Bill

Bill, thanks for the reply. I used the word inevitable because I'm a student of history. And as they say, history repeats itself. I can't think of any instance throughout history (perhaps apart from the King of England reducing his own power to the point of only being a figurehead in modern day England) where a people were abused and abused over and over again by their own government, it escalated to near revolution, and then the government suddenly changed for the better. It almost always ends with physical fighting, that's why I said inevitable. I truly believe, as history does tend to repeat itself (especially when so many are ignorant of history), that it is inevitable.

How far away are we really from having those two choices you talked about? For the most part, I feel like I'm living my life being choked out by the crown. I've ranted plenty of times about the disappearing act the government does with our freedoms.

They regulate what we can say, what we can hear, what we can watch, what we can read, what we can eat, what we can drink, what we can smoke, when we can drive, what job we can have, what we can defend ourselves with, if they allow us to defend ourselves, how much money we can make, which of us can drive, fly, or use our roads, where we can go.

I agree that education is the key, but it has to be American education. We have to educate people on the spirit of the Declaration of Independence, the greatness of the Bill of Rights and what the Constitution says. We should educate kids by letting them read Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry. "Educated" people from expensive colleges in Chicago and New York are still ignorant of the real world and how our government is supposed to function. Education is the key, but it must be specific education. We have to teach liberty as well as responsibility right next to math, science, and history.

LashcoN, I tried to Rep you, but I am out.....

It's okay, it is the thought that counts.

The popcorn is nearly empty, sir.

 

[jedi]

The popcorn is nearly empty, sir.

Then why did you not bring some more. It's not nice to come to the room empty handed you know.

 

[SavageEagle]

Then why did you not bring some more. It's not nice to come to the room empty handed you know.

Leave the popcorn. I want

 

[jedi]

Leave the popcorn. I want

That ALWAYS gets us in trouble as well as talking about what we are not suppose to talk about in here & thus why just my icon.

Move let the topic get back on course. It's fun to read how some tip-toe type on this issue.

 

[E5RANGER375]

i dont know how we can have a political section, and not occationaly bring up the "forbidden topid" or at least hint at it. But i will do my best to obey the rules here for respect to the site owner. no one wants to admit or realize we have allowed ourselves (over many years) to drop the ball. It is shamefull that we have let such a gift go to waist. but it would be a bigger tradgedy and dishonor to our founders, for us to KNOW this isnt what they intended or documented for America to be like, and then do nothing to change it. Innaction is more dishonorable. I think the whole political process is a failure, and past the point of self corecting itself by the means in place. check and balances that were put into place to assure government would never again get this large and oppressive has been bypassed by large and oppressive govt. we have been infiltrated by communist, socialist, traitors, pacifist, at the highest levels of our government. The people have NO SAY, no matter what your fooled into believing or want to believe to maintain your piece of mind to put off action for another generation to deal with the problems of NOW. I am no word smith, but I am an American in its purist form in my opinion. I have the purist intentions when it comes to protecting this great nation that was left to me by our founders, some of which were my direct blood line. I wont say by what means I believe we will need to use to correct this tyrany that is taking place, all i will say is that by whatever means we use, we must act now, because America cannot live without oxygen for any longer.

 

[dross]

i dont know how we can have a political section, and not occationaly bring up the "forbidden topid" or at least hint at it. But i will do my best to obey the rules here for respect to the site owner. no one wants to admit or realize we have allowed ourselves (over many years) to drop the ball. It is shamefull that we have let such a gift go to waist. but it would be a bigger tradgedy and dishonor to our founders, for us to KNOW this isnt what they intended or documented for America to be like, and then do nothing to change it. Innaction is more dishonorable. I think the whole political process is a failure, and past the point of self corecting itself by the means in place. check and balances that were put into place to assure government would never again get this large and oppressive has been bypassed by large and oppressive govt. we have been infiltrated by communist, socialist, traitors, pacifist, at the highest levels of our government. The people have NO SAY, no matter what your fooled into believing or want to believe to maintain your piece of mind to put off action for another generation to deal with the problems of NOW. I am no word smith, but I am an American in its purist form in my opinion. I have the purist intentions when it comes to protecting this great nation that was left to me by our founders, some of which were my direct blood line. I wont say by what means I believe we will need to use to correct this tyrany that is taking place, all i will say is that by whatever means we use, we must act now, because America cannot live without oxygen for any longer.

We the people still have ALL the say. The problem lies in our inability to convince others to share our point of view. Lots more people want government to be partly socialist than want the rigorous libertarian style government based on our founding. It's as simple as that. We could throw them all out and get citizen/statesmen/politicians, if only we could convince enough people to go our way.

It's possible that someday this will lead to, let's just say, a solution outside of politics. The reason the time isn't right for that right now is simple: If you can't convince people to risk their gravy train for your point of view, how will you ever convince them to risk their lives for it?

 

[E5RANGER375]

We the people still have ALL the say. The problem lies in our inability to convince others to share our point of view. Lots more people want government to be partly socialist than want the rigorous libertarian style government based on our founding. It's as simple as that. We could throw them all out and get citizen/statesmen/politicians, if only we could convince enough people to go our way.

It's possible that someday this will lead to, let's just say, a solution outside of politics. The reason the time isn't right for that right now is simple: If you can't convince people to risk their gravy train for your point of view, how will you ever convince them to risk their lives for it?

how can you convince people of anything when they could care less about anything in American history except for "freedom of speech" you always hear even children quoting that one to their parents, lol. but what truely secures freedom of speech? the second ammendment does, and now we are back at the "forbidden topic". they dont even know that the government is supposed to be by the people and for the people, nor does the government realy want them to know that either, and if they do tell you they make it sound like thats the way its being done now, which is a total lie and they know it. private BANKS own our politicians. If we dumped the federal reserve and congress took over its CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY to print currency and took back control from the federal reserve (which IS NOT part of the federal government for all those of you who dont know, they are a private bank) then i believe we might be able to restore our nation through peaceful means. and i am all for it. but until we hold congress feet to the fire and they get some balls because they are once again afraid of the PEOPLE (like intended by our founders) then nothing will change for the better by political process. the people who control the money, control the country, and right now, congress doesnt control jack crap. they are an impotent body just for show.

 

[dross]

how can you convince people of anything when they could care less about anything in American history except for "freedom of speech" you always hear even children quoting that one to their parents, lol. but what truely secures freedom of speech? the second ammendment does, and now we are back at the "forbidden topic". they dont even know that the government is supposed to be by the people and for the people, nor does the government realy want them to know that either, and if they do tell you they make it sound like thats the way its being done now, which is a total lie and they know it. private BANKS own our politicians. If we dumped the federal reserve and congress took over its CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY to print currency and took back control from the federal reserve (which IS NOT part of the federal government for all those of you who dont know, they are a private bank) then i believe we might be able to restore our nation through peaceful means. and i am all for it. but until we hold congress feet to the fire and they get some balls because they are once again afraid of the PEOPLE (like intended by our founders) then nothing will change for the better by political process. the people who control the money, control the country, and right now, congress doesnt control jack crap. they are an impotent body just for show.

So get enough people who agree with you to vote them out.

 

[E5RANGER375]

So get enough people who agree with you to vote them out.

well i also believe there is funny business going on in the ballot box too, as has been documented by testimony in open court. the 2 major political parties are in it together and will do anything legal or illegal to retain their power. the solution is not through the current electorial process. nor is it through majority vote. this republic needs to be restored by those who will take it back to the original ideals it was founded on. the majority of people in this country are blind sheep who have no clue. but because of their blindness we must not allow ourselves to also follow along or accept it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

well i also believe there is funny business going on in the ballot box too, as has been documented by testimony in open court. the 2 major political parties are in it together and will do anything legal or illegal to retain their power. the solution is not through the current electorial process. nor is it through majority vote. this republic needs to be restored by those who will take it back to the original ideals it was founded on. the majority of people in this country are blind sheep who have no clue. but because of their blindness we must not allow ourselves to also follow along or accept it.

How do we do this? Don't forget the Declaration of Independance speaks of government by the consent of the People (the governed?). If we can't get "blind sheep" to see what is wrong, how do we proceed? What legitimate means, other than education and elections, do we have to change the majority opinion? If we can't convince the majority of the wrongness of their apparent beliefs, what recourse do we have?

 

[Woodsman]

...What legitimate means, other than education and elections, do we have to change the majority opinion? If we can't convince the majority of the wrongness of their apparent beliefs, what recourse do we have?

Unfortunately, this is something the MSM has under control. As in, they control the message. This is something that has gone on for a long time. One way I mentioned in another post is to write letters to the editor on subjects you feel passionate about. Sure, some wackjob will respond with emotional pleas that make it sound like you hate babies, apple pie, and all of that, but we need to be relentless in pursuing this. I've gotten responses like this from my two Senators here. Yeah, yeah...I support that or don't support that. Sometimes they are so far off in left field (aptly named, BTW) they have the issues confused entirely.

An old saying is "all politics are local". Redistricting is one of those ways they try to do this. One person suggested getting involved in local precincts.

Lincoln/Douglas debates should be allowed/used more. During the last presidential debates we saw stuff like YouTube videos!? The moderators (which were questionable in the first place) asked asinine questions on soft topics or those which generated a hit on hot button issues.

We should insist that any legislation is written by Congress, not special interests groups. No lobbyists at all. No earmarks, no junkets, no protection of self interests (as in CongressCritters tyring to keep funding something just because part of it goes to their State).

As it turns out we cannot depend on those elected to do the right thing anymore. The only way out of this is we have to educate ourselves and fight back with every ounce of chutzpa we have.

 

[Prometheus]

So get enough people who agree with you to vote them out.

On a national level it's never going to happen. We are beyond the tipping point.

The only chance the liberty loving people have is to move to the States that actually believe in and are starting to exercise their sovereignty (Arizona, Wyoming ect. ect.) and secede. We can only hope the federal government lets them leave peacefully. Cut off the welfare and the liberal scrounge will move out.

IMO there is no way to reconcile with population bases (read welfare whores) of the blue areas... i.e. Chicago, New York, New Jersey, S. Kali....

 

[E5RANGER375]

How do we do this? Don't forget the Declaration of Independance speaks of government by the consent of the People (the governed?). If we can't get "blind sheep" to see what is wrong, how do we proceed? What legitimate means, other than education and elections, do we have to change the majority opinion? If we can't convince the majority of the wrongness of their apparent beliefs, what recourse do we have?

well govt doesnt currently opperate under the law or consent given it by the people, so how do you recomend we get the federal govts' attention and real it back in? People with unhealthy and complete power do not ever give it up willingly. as long as people fear the federal government then the abuses will continue. and dont think thats an accident. the federal govt knows exactly what its doing by creating letter agencies and storming into your homes and businesses with warrants issued on unconstitutional law violations, by socialist judges comming to the govts side at every whistle with their tongues hanging out ready with their stamp of approval for whatever. Blackhawk, im sorry but i cannot post here the action that i think we must take sooner than later. if our founders were alive then it would already have been in mootion years ago. The only way it will be unavoidable is to abolish the federal reserve. then we can truely own our govt again. but currently the govt IS NOT controled by the people. Its controlled by the banks and super wealthy who allow us to continue to have elections to keep the sheep in the dark and not raise suspician. people have been tricked into thinking that as long as they can vote then they actualy control their govt. and its simply not true now.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

well govt doesnt currently opperate under the law or consent given it by the people, so how do you recomend we get the federal govts' attention and real it back in? People with unhealthy and complete power do not ever give it up willingly. as long as people fear the federal government then the abuses will continue. and dont think thats an accident. the federal govt knows exactly what its doing by creating letter agencies and storming into your homes and businesses with warrants issued on unconstitutional law violations, by socialist judges comming to the govts side at every whistle with their tongues hanging out ready with their stamp of approval for whatever. Blackhawk, im sorry but i cannot post here the action that i think we must take sooner than later. if our founders were alive then it would already have been in mootion years ago. The only way it will be unavoidable is to abolish the federal reserve. then we can truely own our govt again. but currently the govt IS NOT controled by the people. Its controlled by the banks and super wealthy who allow us to continue to have elections to keep the sheep in the dark and not raise suspician. people have been tricked into thinking that as long as they can vote then they actualy control their govt. and its simply not true now.

Well I suggest that Promethius' approach, as outlined above, is more likely to be successful than what you fear is necessary. You still have to resolve the ethical dilemma of forcing others to your will. Face it Ranger, you weren't trained to be a wolf - you (and I) chose to be sheepdogs (in your case, one bad-ass sheepdog), and we have sworn an oath to protect the sheep. That has to figure in there somewhere, too. (I know our oath is to support and defend the Constitution, but our real job is to protect the people as well).

 

[beararms1776]

CNSNews.com - Arizona Sheriff: ?Our Own Government Has Become Our Enemy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoYtnoFn09Y

He's absolutely right. There's no mistaking it. All signs point to it.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Well I suggest that Promethius' approach, as outlined above, is more likely to be successful than what you fear is necessary. You still have to resolve the ethical dilemma of forcing others to your will. Face it Ranger, you weren't trained to be a wolf - you (and I) chose to be sheepdogs (in your case, one bad-ass sheepdog), and we have sworn an oath to protect the sheep. That has to figure in there somewhere, too. (I know our oath is to support and defend the Constitution, but our real job is to protect the people as well).

Thank you for the compliment, and let me extend my appreciation for your loyal and skilled service to country as well.

see and thats the reason i feel compelled to believe the way i do, is to protect the people (among those "people" are my own family, friends, and future family). right now I see my fellow countrymen being led to slaughter. upholding the constitution is also an oath I will never live down. sometimes the masses dont fully know or understand whats good for them, especialy those who have been conditioned by failed govt welfare policies. its like a child that you must force to eat their vegtables because overall its good for them in the long run. We must stop spending money that we DO NOT HAVE!! NO MORE CREDIT FOR THE GOVT!!!! If that means that all non essential services shut down until we catch up then so be it. i truely believe that if this country continues to allow the federal government to take us down this road that the country WILL fall appart on its own in less than 10 years, much like the USSR did. and im as serious as a heart attack.
the first thing i think needs to be dont is for states to exercise their right to sovereignty under the 10th ammendment <<< this is not civil war, its constitutional exercise of rights. see where it goes from there. getting the majority of the states on board is the way the victor will be successful, and hopefully with peaceful means. we may be able to fix it, but i can tell you it will be bumpy. think about all of the people who will rise up because they stop getting their govt handouts every month. those handouts: welfare, unemployement, food stamps, medicare, madicaid, obamacare, will ALL have to cease, we have not got the money. its all borrowed dollars. the scum of today do not care about the hope of tomorrow. they only care about themselves and NOW. once they realize they must work to get food or care then they will become violent, and someone will have to control them. we have allowed the weak to thrive by pumping this welfare into america. the weak will have to either get strong or die. i have no sympothy for people who dont wish to work to earn their survival.

 

[Woodsman]

...it will be bumpy. think about all of the people who will rise up because they stop getting their govt handouts every month. those handouts: welfare, unemployement, food stamps, medicare, madicaid, obamacare, will ALL have to cease...

I think you're right on this. If the payoff's do end as you suggest, which is a darn good start, the people who get cut-off will be where the riots starts.

Getting through this will be tough for a lot of people.

For others it will be as if the sky fell, without warning.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I think you're right on this. If the payoff's do end as you suggest, which is a darn good start, the people who get cut-off will be where the riots starts.

Getting through this will be tough for a lot of people.

For others it will be as if the sky fell, without warning.

standbye Im about to show true feelings, shocker

I realy do feel bad for people who have become conditioned by the system to get these handouts. and I understand that many people have paid into the failed social security system with their own money. but those systems need to be done away with. im paying into social security that i probly will never see paid back to me. i dont wanna pay my money to other people. but also i believe the people who paid into it should be paid back if we end it. sell some more jets to israel or something, i dont care how they get the money back.
If we can finaly end these failed welfare programs then it will be up to communities to bond together and assist those who have unavoidable medical problems and such, that prevent them from working. we must become closer instead of being so distant from each other. and then kick these scum bag illegals out of our country no matter where they are from. Im encouraged to see the republicans talking about changing the 14th amendment to end anchor babies. thats a great move and i encourage all to call in and support it. it discust me that we let the wreches of the world come to our country and spawn their seed and then entilte them to become citizens.