ATF just announced they consider FRT to be Machine Guns

[TrueSeanamus]

Don't go order one from their website either. iirc, the ATF seized it along with all inventory. The website and ordering product is probably a sting operation. I still get the emails and like to view the site. Nothing there mentions the ATF last time I looked.

I have seen them at a few small gun shows & they are jacked way up in price right now.

Can't wait for ATF to get smacked down in court about all these infringements.

We can all dream. Let’s pray the Supreme Court scraps the darn chevron deference nonsense. Letting these agencies make policy out of whole cloth really gets old fast. Especially blatant stuff like surplus kits barrel bans and bump stocks. Obviously, OBVIOUSLY they only work by one shot fired per trigger pull. Yet they determined that it is a machine gun which by legal definition that they are allegedly forced to work under, means more than one round fired per trigger pull. Well, I don’t see more than one round coming out per bump of the trigger. And no bumpstock is actually even needed to bump fire so it’s not like the stocks changed the functionality.

It’s all so tiresome. I just want some BASIC freedoms and not to be stomped down on like I’m a criminal for having fun shooting in my back yard in bfe or at a range in a safe manner.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Gunsngear guy has it spot on... they are trying to bully people into compliance. Fear is their weapon. The people have as many (or more) guns than the government, so the only thing they really have to use... is fear, and intimidation.

You're a racist, you're a traitor, you're a homophobe, you're a white supremist terrorist, you're in possession of an illegal machinegun...

I've never wanted a FRT more.

 

[TrueSeanamus]

the catch is that people really couldn't afford that luxury then.

When I was a kid, I remember my dad dreaming for years about getting an AR15, now days who doesn't have one? There's an unfired one in vault now.


Freedom isn't dead - we just got constitutional carry here in Indiana. You might call that "a bone", but I say it's a big win especially when compared against what it took to carry in the 80s.

Prices on things have just inverted. Gorgeous walnut and steel rifles used to be fairly affordable and “““assault rifles””” or their civilian semi auto clones were very expensive. Now that everyone and their cousin can mill a lower and uppers are thankfully not treated as a gun it’s very cheap and convenient to buy them. And now a well made, pretty, rifle or handgun starts at like 1000$ minimum.

I appreciate us getting constitutional carry for sure. It should have always been that way. But I got my LTCH when I turned 18 so it doesn’t really help me one way or another.

What would make an immense difference in my life would be stuff like ending the Chinese and Russian import bans, or scrapping the Hughes amendment and reopening the MG registry so I could legally get a machine gun without selling a kidney.

Even less likely than that would be just completely throwing out every anti gun, gun control law written. I even have a C&R and wouldn’t be completely opposed to a similar system just for buying regular guns. There are tons of thoroughly modern guns in the C&R list, these days even AR15’s are aging onto the list so there’s no reason we couldn’t be personal FFL’s to buy guns and have them shipped directly to our homes as long as we don’t abuse it and resell a lot which is also frowned upon for C&R holders.

Let’s just hope our momentum in expanding our freedoms continues in our favor.

 

[Altrex]

As much as I dislike them, their definition of a machine gun has always included the ability to fire multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger. Clearly, binary triggers and bumpstocks don't fit that definition. Does the Rare Breed trigger allow that? Or is it just another binary trigger? That was my question. In other words, if you pull the Rare Breed trigger back and hold it, does the gun continue to fire without releasing it? If not, then it's not a "machine gun".

From what I have seen of the design, if you were to pull the trigger back really hard it will bind up the bolt carrier or break the trigger. If you can get off the trigger before the bolt closes then it would only fire a single shot as well. Same goes for a FA as well though.

 

[Jamie-K]

I might need a little help here ... but I don't remember casting a vote for anybody in the ATF "?"

Just another example of "unelected" officials and their "Task Masters" flexing political muscle they shouldn't have.

 

[thelefthand]

Since an FRT can be 3D printed for only a few dollars, I don't concerned myself with the AFT's opinion on this mater.

 

[rrschooter]

We can all dream. Let’s pray the Supreme Court scraps the darn chevron deference nonsense. Letting these agencies make policy out of whole cloth really gets old fast. Especially blatant stuff like surplus kits barrel bans and bump stocks. Obviously, OBVIOUSLY they only work by one shot fired per trigger pull. Yet they determined that it is a machine gun which by legal definition that they are allegedly forced to work under, means more than one round fired per trigger pull. Well, I don’t see more than one round coming out per bump of the trigger. And no bumpstock is actually even needed to bump fire so it’s not like the stocks changed the functionality.

It’s all so tiresome. I just want some BASIC freedoms and not to be stomped down on like I’m a criminal for having fun shooting in my back yard in bfe or at a range in a safe manner.

They're making that determination by using language that isn't found in the statute. The statute says "function", yet their letter very explicitly uses the term "pull". They made the same argument re: bump stocks, which got smacked down on appeal (and I haven't seen anything about it since, likely since the appeals court gutted their chevron defense using the actual precedent from SCOTUS; not sure the ATF is really wanting to push their luck on that one, as it could upset the whole apple cart)

 

[DFacres]

Does owning a home with copper plumbing, while in possession of yeast, corn, sugar & water constitute a distillery?

Well…it does show intent… (-;

 

[indykid]

Ok, so if male swimmers are able to say they are females and compete with real females, can a full auto rifle claim to be a single shot shotgun and therefore be not covered by the unconstitutional bans?

 

[rrschooter]

Ok, so if male swimmers are able to say they are females and compete with real females, can a full auto rifle claim to be a single shot shotgun and therefore be not covered by the unconstitutional bans?

I'd prefer if they identified as a ham sandwich and avoided the GCA as a whole... I'd love a deli counter display case full of full autos, silencers, with a buffet of belt fed ammo you can purchase by the pound

 

[rebase]

I even have a C&R and wouldn’t be completely opposed to a similar system just for buying regular guns.

Thats a registry. Which is turnkey tyranny.

 

[JettaKnight]

[That's] a registry. Which is turnkey tyranny.

It's no more than FFL01 - just that they don't audit it as much.

And it's a PITA to do the logging.

 

[manifest destiny]

It's a weird psychology. So many items I'm unfamiliar with, unaware of or would otherwise not be interested in become 'must haves' simply because ATF says I shouldn't be allowed to have it. I also hate that nothing is ever grandfathered anymore. If something is legal when I purchase it, becomes illegal later, I should be allowed to keep it.

 

[TrueSeanamus]

Thats a registry. Which is turnkey tyranny.

I’d prefer nothing. But we don’t have that. Plus they have no idea what I have until I stop renewing my license. They are already building a registry between the call in NICS checks as well as requiring gun stores to turn over literally decades of sales forms/4473’s.

So I may as well get a better life via direct delivery of guns to my home since they are breaking the law and making a registry anyways. You don’t need a C&R to buy C&R guns. You can still buy privately face to face or in guns stores without them. It just makes it so you can save the money and have it directly delivered without the FFL fees.

 

[TrueSeanamus]

It's no more than FFL01 - just that they don't audit it as much.

And it's a PITA to do the logging.

The logging is super easy if you get a dedicated log book. I got a pleather covered log book with like 80 entry pages for like 20$ off Amazon. Has log in and log out boxes on each page. Very convenient.

 

[Angrysauce]

 

[Bluedragon]

He posted this on social media for people to sign.

Stop the ATF's Unconstitutional Trigger Ban!

Dear Fellow Patriot, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has gone rogue and is operating outside the rule of law by bypassing Congress to unilaterally expand the definit...

oneclickpolitics.global.ssl.fastly.net

 

[rrschooter]

He posted this on social media for people to sign.

Stop the ATF's Unconstitutional Trigger Ban!

Dear Fellow Patriot, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has gone rogue and is operating outside the rule of law by bypassing Congress to unilaterally expand the definit...

oneclickpolitics.global.ssl.fastly.net

Done. It's good to see groups like nagr getting involved, because this whole situation is ********. He's honestly right that if the ATF can flat out ignore the language in the statute and insert their own new terms, there's nothing stopping them from twisting/inventing new language that will classify run of the mill semi-auto ARs as machine guns because they're "readily convertible".

 

[xwing]

I wasn’t familiar with them either until this all blew up…then I wanted one.

+1. I wasn't familiar with this product. Now that I am, I would've liked to try it. Oh well.

 

[Dim Mak]

The ATF always plays dirty. Imagine that.