ATF Agent Shot

[Cavman]

This will get bad to where they'll put a number on it and say limit ya 2 to sales a year. **** the atf and hope they all get monkey pox

 

[HoosierLife]

Why not? I see nothing outside of rules being made by an unelected criminal agency saying anything about it. I once traded for something I thought I wanted, and traded it again 4 days later because I really didn't like it. Does that mean the AFT should have the right to come to my home, knock down my door and shoot me in the head?

If you really think they care about the numbers you're wrong. If you think they're only going to come for the ones selling a lot, you're wrong. They are coming for ALL of us. PERIOD. WE are the enemy to them and they will stop at nothing to silence us.

Ok so we agree lol. I think you misread my post.

It should fine to do that is what I said.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Does the normal collector seller buy 24 of the same gun? Current production pistols, not out of production, and not likely to go out of production any time soon. And sell at least some less than 24 hrs aft acquiring them? Do they they tell people to tell them what they want and they would try to get it for them?

 

[Ashton1911]

They want an example of "selling without a license" that would scare folks. Trying it in court post bruen is not as certain as they want. So just scare citizens by shooting him in the head.

 

[rosejm]

Do they they tell people to tell them what they want and they would try to get it for them?

Personally, this is the key point of the case.

There can be arguments made for buying multiples of the same model, selling wherever, not *knowing* the buyer was prohibited, etc...

But when a past buyer calls back with a list, including multiples of the same model(s), on multiple occasions, and you act as a middle man... that's doing business as a firearms dealer. Even if you sell them at a loss.
A reasonable person should have some concerns.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Thanks Todd Young, the BS Communities Act (which changed the definition of "engaged in the business" to "doesn't lose money on the sales") strikes again.

Old definition: Included "for primary livelihood" or something like that. This guy made $250-$270K/year as an airport director. This is a hobby for a guy like this since if he CLEARS $250/gun and sells 150/year that's $37,500. Subtract cost per table, fuel costs, etc.

Yeah, thanks Todd Young.

 

[Leadeye]

After listening to the whole video on the warrant and case the ATF had, in my opinion the guy was way over the line. As far back as I can remember there is no hard and fast number of guns sold/time that the ATF uses, but it's obvious his actions and the guns showing up quickly in the hands of criminals got him on the legal radar.

That said, an early morning raid seems way over the top for this arrest. Unlike drugs, you can't easily destroy guns, which would be the physical evidence a raid is supposed to collect. No idea who makes the decisions to carry these actions out, or what their training and experience are, but if they were looking for a big media splash killing the suspect has erased that.

Years ago I thought that after the Branch Dividian horror, changes would be made in policy to affect arrests in better ways. Is serving the warrant where there could be no shooting and bringing the suspect to the search area an option?

 

[Cameramonkey]

Years ago I thought that after the Branch Dividian horror, changes would be made in policy to affect arrests in better ways. Is serving the warrant where there could be no shooting and bringing the suspect to the search area an option?

They will only learn if they want to change. By this time, its intentional. They clearly dont care.

On a related note, somebody on the south side isnt having a good morning. I passed around a dozen Sheriffs deputies (and maybe two related SUVs with limo tint) in a caravan. They were all headed somewhere and being deputies, I suspect its to retrieve a fugitive.

Hopefully those SUVs arent full of fedbois or we could have a dead dog or two too.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Does the normal collector seller buy 24 of the same gun? Current production pistols, not out of production, and not likely to go out of production any time soon. And sell at least some less than 24 hrs aft acquiring them? Do they they tell people to tell them what they want and they would try to get it for them?

And none of that should matter. I am absolutely certain that none of those things should get you executed in your own home.

Are you a subject, serf or a citizen? If the latter then the Constitution matters and most especially the preamble to the bill of rights, and the first second fourth fifth 9th and 10th amendments. All the proceeding set clear restrictions upon the actions of the federal government. The reality that the federal government routinely flaunts those restrictions without consequences is a sad reflection upon us the citizenry.

The bureaucrats and the politicians work for the citizens, not the other way around!

 

[BugI02]

It's as clear as every other amendment in the Bill of Rights.

The Founders of the United States and the Framers of the Constitution were the greatest collection of human intelligence in history.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". - Letter from John Adams to Massachusetts Militia, 11 October 1798

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Thanks Todd Young, the BS Communities Act (which changed the definition of "engaged in the business" to "doesn't lose money on the sales") strikes again.

Old definition: Included "for primary livelihood" or something like that. This guy made $250-$270K/year as an airport director. This is a hobby for a guy like this since if he CLEARS $250/gun and sells 150/year that's $37,500. Subtract cost per table, fuel costs, etc.

Yeah, thanks Todd Young.

I agree with you on Young and that BS act, but I'm pretty sure what he was doing would have required a FFL before the change. It wasn't for "primary livelyhood" I that think it was closer to "primarily for the purpose of livelyhood" which would include doing it as a hobby/side hustle that you intend to make money from. Heck I know a FFL or two that run a brick and mortar store that isn't their primary livelyhood.

And none of that should matter. I am absolutely certain that none of those things should get you executed in your own home.

Are you a subject, serf or a citizen? If the latter then the Constitution matters and most especially the preamble to the bill of rights, and the first second fourth fifth 9th and 10th amendments. All the proceeding set clear restrictions upon the actions of the federal government. The reality that the federal government routinely flaunts those restrictions without consequences is a sad reflection upon us the citizenry.

The bureaucrats and the politicians work for the citizens, not the other way around!

I agree with you but the fact is it sounds like there was a very good chance he was breaking the law, which I stated in the part of my post that hat you left off shouldn't be.

Was this raid idiotic? Oh he'll yes.

 

[BugI02]

Is serving the warrant where there could be no shooting and bringing the suspect to the search area an option?

Good question. If you recall the circumstances of Finicum's death during Malheur the government seems mostly concerned not with 'no shooting' but that the government has a monopoly on shooting and acts accordingly. They also seem to become especially fond of violent resolution when the subject(s) defy them and make them look ineffectual while also gaining support from the public at large as the circumstances of the charges become more generally known

As for what was bought and sold, I doubt that the current government would care if it was safari grade Winchesters and Weatherbys as well as high quality S&W revolvers and 1911s. They do not want firearms changing hands in ways that cannot be tracked, period. That interferes with their efforts to create the comprehensive firearm registry that they also aren't supposed to have

 

[INPatriot]

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". - Letter from John Adams to Massachusetts Militia, 11 October 1798

People cannot be reminded this enough!

 

[firecadet613]

 

[Leadeye]

Good question. If you recall the circumstances of Finicum's death during Malheur the government seems mostly concerned not with 'no shooting' but that the government has a monopoly on shooting and acts accordingly. They also seem to become especially fond of violent resolution when the subject(s) defy them and make them look ineffectual while also gaining support from the public at large as the circumstances of the charges become more generally known

As for what was bought and sold, I doubt that the current government would care if it was safari grade Winchesters and Weatherbys as well as high quality S&W revolvers and 1911s. They do not want firearms changing hands in ways that cannot be tracked, period. That interferes with their efforts to create the comprehensive firearm registry that they also aren't supposed to have

I'll be curious about the answer, if dc is not learning from their mistakes I would imagine the road ahead isn't going to be any better.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Nice looking home. It will be interesting to find out why they thought this guy was up to something.

Dealing without a license.

 

[wagyu52]

So have the manslaughter charges been filed yet?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Thanks Todd Young, the BS Communities Act (which changed the definition of "engaged in the business" to "doesn't lose money on the sales") strikes again.

Old definition: Included "for primary livelihood" or something like that. This guy made $250-$270K/year as an airport director. This is a hobby for a guy like this since if he CLEARS $250/gun and sells 150/year that's $37,500. Subtract cost per table, fuel costs, etc.

Yeah, thanks Todd Young.

Nailed it.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Dealing without a license.

You can always tell when a guy responds to an early post before reading to the end of the thread.

 

[bobzilla]

You can always tell when a guy responds to an early post before reading to the end of the thread.

Probably a runner