Assisted opening knives

[Turtle]

Ok, So I visited Indyvets shop and bought a cheap little knife and when I got home I realized it was spring loaded. Yeah its a pretty neal lil guy but the quallity sucks. But for 13$ what would you expect?

But after playing with this thing I really want a good one.
Would this be legal to order? Is it concidered an automatica knife?
I did just buy a cheap one at a gun shop.

I would say this does not apply because there is no button and no opening device at all on the handle. (the thumb opening thing is on the blade not the handle)

Indiana - 35-47-5-2. Knife with automatically opening blade
prohibited. -- It is a class B misdemeanor for a person to
manufacture, possess, display, offer, sell, lend, give
away, or purchase any knife with a blade that opens
automatically by hand pressure applied to a button,
spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.

Who makes a better knife? SOG or S&W?
here are knives im looking at.
Smith & Wesson MP Series Three Spring Assist Knife

SOG TWITCH XL Black Spring Assisted Knife - SOG Spring Assist by Knives4Wholesale

Savannah Spy&

Smith & Wesson MP Series One Spring Assist Knife

Im open to suggestions here?

Could I order one of these carry it and be within the confines of indiana law?

 

[Scutter01]

I have one of these that I'm happy with, although my purposes may not be yours. I think I paid $50 for it at Wal-Mart.

KAI USA : Kershaw Product Details

Also, there are a couple of stickies in The Cutting Edge INGO forum that you might want to read.

ETA: I'm going to move this thread to that forum. It fits here, but we have a whole subforum just for knives.

 

[samrothstein01]

I have also been looking for one of these recently, and ran across this......

SMITH & WESSON HRT OTF ASSISTED OPENING KNIFE TANTO POINT

It was awesome, the mechanics were fabulous, and the very knowledgable gentlemen assisting me indicated it is an "assisted opening knife" not an automatic, so it is perfectly legal to own and posess. It had everything I wanted including a sturdy side clip.

The ONLY reason I did not purchase it on the spot is that the handle seemed flimsy and cheap. (What do you expect with a $40 knife, right?)

So, I am holding off (for the moment) until I can find this exact setup with a better quality handle. No luck yet, so I may have to settle and put it to the test to see if it is really as flimsy as I thought. It may just be that I only got to handle it for a few minutes and rushed to judgement. BTW, the others that are assisted via the blade with the traditional handles felt much better and stronger, just not what I was looking for.

 

[tyler34]

I have also been looking for one of these recently, and ran across this......

SMITH & WESSON HRT OTF ASSISTED OPENING KNIFE TANTO POINT

It was awesome, the mechanics were fabulous, and the very knowledgable gentlemen assisting me indicated it is an "assisted opening knife" not an automatic, so it is perfectly legal to own and posess. It had everything I wanted including a sturdy side clip.

The ONLY reason I did not purchase it on the spot is that the handle seemed flimsy and cheap. (What do you expect with a $40 knife, right?)

So, I am holding off (for the moment) until I can find this exact setup with a better quality handle. No luck yet, so I may have to settle and put it to the test to see if it is really as flimsy as I thought. It may just be that I only got to handle it for a few minutes and rushed to judgement. BTW, the others that are assisted via the blade with the traditional handles felt much better and stronger, just not what I was looking for.

the reason that particular knife is legal is because the actuating mechanism is part of the blade and not a button. I will tell you that knife sucks to open because you have to put the tips of your fingers at the bottom of the knife to pop it up. and for right around that price you can get a much better brand in kershaw with a better actuating system. I know for a fact they will have both knives at the 1500 go try them out and you will see the difference.

 

[tyler34]

Who makes a better knife? SOG or S&W?
law?

SOG PERIOD! S&W knives are not made for anything but light use.

kershaw really has the best selection of assisted opening knives so you might into them as well. or you can go big leagues and get a zero tolerance 0300 like this

 

[samrothstein01]

the reason that particular knife is legal is because the actuating mechanism is part of the blade and not a button. I will tell you that knife sucks to open because you have to put the tips of your fingers at the bottom of the knife to pop it up. and for right around that price you can get a much better brand in kershaw with a better actuating system. I know for a fact they will have both knives at the 1500 go try them out and you will see the difference.

Okay, so does Kershaw or SOG (or insert quality knife mfg name) have OTF (out the front) assisted opening knives? I have been around knives all my life, but have never been a connoiseur, so I am new to this "quality knife" stuff. I haven't found one yet, but I am certainly looking as time permits!

Thanks for the info!!

 

[tyler34]

Okay, so does Kershaw or SOG (or insert quality knife mfg name) have OTF (out the front) assisted opening knives? I have been around knives all my life, but have never been a connoiseur, so I am new to this "quality knife" stuff. I haven't found one yet, but I am certainly looking as time permits!

Thanks for the info!!

OTF? no not that I'm aware of. I'll be honest with you I looked at getting one of those knives for S&G but after handling it and the precarious way you have to open it, it's just not worth buying when it is far too easy to drop while opening and lose some blood, not to mention if you had to use it for self defense.

 

[samrothstein01]

I will tell you that knife sucks to open because you have to put the tips of your fingers at the bottom of the knife to pop it up.

The video below shows the action, "in action" so to speak. Is this what you meant by having to put your fingers at the bottom? When I held the knife, they wouldn't let me actually use the action because of some liability rule....which is another reason I didn't purchase on the spot, but curious if this is what you meant!

Thanks again!

YouTube - Schrade OTF Spring Assist Knife - Legal Out the Front

 

[tyler34]

yes that was exactly what I meant. as you can see you can't get a good/solid grip while opening it.

 

[Scutter01]

Wow. That knife looks like a giant pain in the neck. What was it about the knife that drew you to it? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[lawrra]

I have a Kershaw Leek that I have enjoyed for 7 years, and it keeps an edge fairly well. I won't comment on SOGs or other assisted opening knives because I haven't handled them.

 

[samrothstein01]

Wow. That knife looks like a giant pain in the neck. What was it about the knife that drew you to it? Maybe I'm missing something.

For some reason I have always been drawn to the "out the front" knives, except all that I know of to date have been illegal so I haven't been able to get one. This was finally an OTF that was legal, so it peeked my interest. It also "seemed" quick and fairly "automatic", so watching the gentlemen work the action in person made it appear very cool and much less of a PITA than watching what this video shows.

I am wanting to handle one again where they will let me work the action on my own so I can decide. As always, open to suggestions!

Thanks again!

 

[tyler34]

they will let you work one at the 1500 for sure.

 

[Django]

I was going to pick up a Benchmade tomorrow (last knife died), but found a Kershaw Onion for 20USD today.
I don't care for the opening mechanism (have to hold the knife at an unnatural angle in order to deploy) and the locking mechanism requires you to flip the knife in hand should your other be busy.
If the tip of the knife goes the blade will deploy at the slightest brush, but for 20USD it's a solid little bugger.

 

[Pale Rider]

as far as I'm concerned OTF knives aren't much more than a gag, I've handled some expensive ones and even they don't feel that sturdy... great for scarring people I guess but in a practical application I just don't see it when you have so many other great options out there through Benchmade, Kershaw SOG etc..

 

[Turtle]

Found a good article on knife steel. Enjoy.

All About Steel & Alloys, Tactical Knives, Combat Knives, Military Knives

By: Joe Talmadge
Let me start with my bibliography. I got the knowledge for this FAQ from my own experience as a collector and amateur knifemaker, and from countless conversations with custom makers. I've also read countless articles on steels, but here are the four that I actually had in front of me:
Bob Engnath's Blades and Stuff Catalog. Bob's catalog is a must-see for everyone, even for just collectors, as it contains a wealth of information on all kinds of great knife subjects. There is a section on knife steels. I think this is still $5, so call and order it 818-956-5110. "The Secrets of Steel," by Butch Winter, Tactical Knives, Spring 1995. "What Alloys Do For Blade Steel," by Wayne Goddard, Blade, June 1994. Email conversation with Wayne Goddard, February 1998.

Also worth reading:

• All About Steel
• Steel Type & Alloy Chart

One thing to keep in mind is that there's more to knife performance than the steel. The blade profile is also important (a tanto format isn't the best choice to skin a deer, for example). But perhaps most important is the heat treatment. A good solid heat treatment on a lesser steel will often result in a blade that outperforms a better steel with inferior heat treatment. Bad heat treatment can cause a stainless steel to lose some of its stainless properties, or cause a tough steel to become brittle, etc. Unfortunately, of the three most important properties (blade profile, steel type, heat treatment), heat treatment is the one that is impossible to assess by eye, and as a result excessive attention is sometimes paid to the other two.
Remember also to keep your particular application in mind. 440A is often scoffed at, but I'd rather have my salt water dive knife made of 440A than L-6. Properly heat treated 5160 is wonderfully tough, but if my application is skinning deer, I'm probably more interested in edge holding ala 52100. And on and on.
Steel Alloys: At its most simple, steel is iron with carbon in it. Other alloys are added to make the steel perform differently. Here are the important steel alloys in alphabetical order, and some sample steels that contain those alloys:
Carbon: Present in all steels, it is the most important hardening element. Also increases the strength of the steel. We usually want knife-grade steel to have >.5% carbon, which makes it "high-carbon" steel. Chromium: Added for wear resistance, hardenability, and (most importantly) for corrosion resistance. A steel with at least 13% chromium is deemed "stainless" steel. Despite the name, all steel can rust if not maintained properly. Manganese: An important element, manganese aids the grain structure, and contributes to hardenability. Also strength & wear resistance. Improves the steel (e.g., deoxidizes) during the steel's manufacturing (hot working and rolling). Present in most cutlery steel except for A-2, L-6, and CPM 420V. Molybdenum: A carbide former, prevents brittleness & maintains the steel's strength at high temperatures. Present in many steels, and air-hardening steels (e.g., A-2, ATS-34) always have 1% or more molybdenum -- molybdenum is what gives those steels the ability to harden in air. Nickel: Used for strength, corrosion resistance, and toughness. Present in L-6 and AUS-6 and AUS-8. Silicon: Contributes to strength. Like manganese, it makes the steel more sound while it's being manufactured. Tungsten: Increases wear resistance. When combined properly with chromium or molybdenum, tungsten will make the steel to be a high-speed steel. The high-speed steel M-2 has a high amount of tungsten. Vanadium: Contributes to wear resistance and hardenability. A carbide former that helps produce fine-grained steel. A number of steels have vanadium, but M-2, Vascowear, and CPM T440V and 420V (in order of increasing amounts) have high amounts of vanadium. BG-42's biggest difference with ATS-34 is the addition of vanadium.
Carbon and Alloy Steels (Non-Stainless Steels)

These steels are the steels most often forged. Stainless steels can be forged (guys like Sean McWilliams do forge stainless), but it is very difficult. In addition, carbon steels can be differentially tempered, to give a hard edge-holding edge and a tough springy back. Stainless steels are not differentially tempered. Of course, carbon steels will rust faster than stainless steels, to varying degrees. Carbon steels are also often a little bit less of a crap shoot than stainless steels -- I believe all the steels named below are fine performers when heat treated properly.
In the AISI steel designation system, 10xx is carbon steel, any other steels are alloy steels. For example, the 50xx series are chromium steels.
In the SAE designation system, steels with letter designations (e.g., W-2, A-2) are tool steels.
There is an ASM classification system as well, but it isn't seen often in the discussion of cutlery steels, so I'll ignore it for now.
Often, the last numbers in the name of a steel are fairly close to the steel's carbon content. So 1095 is ~.95% carbon. 52100 is ~1.0% carbon. 5160 is ~.60% carbon.
O-1: This is a steel very popular with forgers, as it has the reputation for being "forgiving". It is an excellent steel, that takes and holds an edge superbly, and is very tough. It rusts easily, however. Randall Knives uses O-1, so does Mad Dog.
W-2: Reasonably tough and holds an edge well, due to its .2% vanadium content. Most files are made from W-1, which is the same as W-2 except for the vanadium content (W-1 has no vanadium).
The 10-series -- 1095 (and 1084, 1070, 1060, 1050, etc.): Many of the 10-series steels for cutlery, though 1095 is the most popular for knives. When you go in order from 1095-1050, you generally go from more carbon to less, from better edge holding to less edge holding, and tough to tougher to toughest. As such, you'll see 1060 and 1050, used often for swords. For knives, 1095 is sort of the "standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It is reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. It rusts easily. This is a simple steel, which contains only two alloying elements: @.95% carbon and .4% manganese. The various kabars are usually 1095 with a black coating.
Carbon V: Carbon V is a trademarked term by Cold Steel, and as such is not necessarily one particular kind of steel; rather, it describes whatever steel Cold Steel happens to be using, and there is an indication they do change steels from time to time. Carbon V performs roughly between 1095-ish and O-1-ish, in my opinion, and rusts like O-1 as well. I've heard rumors that Carbon V is O-1 (which I now think is unlikely) or 1095. Numerous industry insiders insist it is 0170-6. Some spark tests done by a rec.knives reader seem to point the finger at 50100-B. Since 50100-B and 0170-6 are the same steel (see below), this is likely the current Carbon V.
0170-6 - 50100-B: These are different designations for the same steel: 0170-6 is the steel makers classification, 50100-B is the AISI designation. A good chrome-vanadium steel that is somewhat similar to O-1, but much less expensive. The now-defunct Blackjack made several knives from O170-6, and Carbon V may be 0170-6. 50100 is basically 52100 with about 1/3 the chromium of 52100, and the B in 50100-B indicates that the steel has been modified with vanadium, making this a chrome-vanadium steel.
A-2: An excellent air-hardening tool steel, it is known for its great toughness and good edge holding. As an air-hardening steel, so don't expect it to be differentially tempered. Its outstanding toughness makes it a frequent choice for combat knives. Chris Reeve and Phil Hartsfield both use A-2, and Blackjack made a few models from A-2.
L-6: A band saw steel that is very tough and holds an edge well, but rusts easily. It is, like O-1, a forgiving steel for the forger. If you're willing to put up with the maintenance, this may be one of the very best steels available for cutlery, especially where toughness is desired.
M-2: A "high-speed steel", it can hold its temper even at very high temperatures, and as such is used in industry for high-heat cutting jobs. It is an excellent edge holder. It is tough but not as tough as some of the toughest steels in this section; however, it will still be tougher than the stainless steels and hold an edge better. It rusts easily. Benchmade has started using M-2 in one of their AFCK variations.
5160: A steel popular with forgers, it is extremely popular now and a very high-end steel. It is essentially a simple spring steel with chromium added for hardenability. It has good edge holding, but is known especially for its outstanding toughness (like L-6). Often used for swords (hardened in the low 50s Rc) because of its toughness, and is also used for hard use knives (hardened up near the 60s Rc).
52100: A ball-bearing steel, and as such is only used by forgers. It is similar to 5160 (though it has around 1% carbon vs. 5160 ~.60%), but holds an edge better. It is less tough than 5160 however. It is used often for hunting knives and other knives where the user is willing to trade off a little of 5160's toughness for better edge holding.
D-2: D-2 is sometimes called a "semi-stainless". It has a fairly high chrome content (12%), but not high enough to classify it as stainless. It is more stain resistant than the carbon steels mentioned above, however. It has excellent edge holding, but may be a little less tough than some of the steels mentioned above. And it does not take a beautiful finish. Bob Dozier uses D-2.
Vascowear: A very hard-to-find steel, with a high vanadium content. It is extremely difficult to work and very wear-resistant. It is out of production.
Stainless Steels

Remember that all steels can rust. But the following steels, by virtue of their > 13% chromium, have much more rust resistance than the above steels. I should point out that there doesn't appear to be consensus on what percent of chromium is needed for a steel to be considered stainless. In the cutlery industry, the de-facto standard is 13%, but the ASM Metals Handbooks says "greater than 10%", and other books cite other numbers. In addition, the alloying elements have a strong influence on the amount of chromium needed; lower chromium with the right alloying elements can still have "stainless" performance.
420: Lower carbon content (Less than.5%) than the 440 series makes this steel extremely soft, and it doesn't hold an edge well. It is used often for diving knives, as it is extremely stain resistant. Also used often for very inexpensive knives. Outside salt water use, it is too soft to be a good choice for a utility knife.
440 A - 440 B - 440C: The carbon content (and hardenability) of this stainless steel goes up in order from A (.75%) to B (.9%) to C (1.2%). 440C is an excellent, high-end stainless steel, usually hardened to around 56-58 Rc. All three resist rust well, with 440A being the most rust resistant, and 440C the least. The SOG Seal 2000 is 440A, and Randall uses 440B for their stainless knives. 440C is fairly ubiquitous, and is generally considered the penultimate general-use stainless (with ATS-34 being the ultimate). If your knife is marked with just "440", it is probably the less expensive 440A; if a manufacturer had used the more expensive 440C, he'd want to advertise that. The general feeling is that 440A (and similar steels, see below) is just good enough for everyday use, especially with a good heat treat (we've heard good reports on the heat treat of SOG's 440A blades, don't know who does the work for them). 440-B is a very solid performer and 440-C is excellent.
425M - 12C27: Both are very similar to 440A. 425M (.5% carbon) is used by Buck knives. 12C27 (.6% carbon) is a Scandanavian steel used often in Finish puukkos and Norwegian knives.
AUS-6 - AUS-8 - AUS-10 (aka 6A 8A 10A): Japanese stainless steels, roughly comparable to 440A (AUS-6, .65% carbon) and 440B (AUS-8, .75% carbon) and 440C (AUS-10, 1.1% carbon). AUS-6 is used by Al Mar. Cold Steel's use of AUS-8 has made it pretty popular, as heat treated by CS it won't hold an edge like ATS-34, but is a bit softer and may be a bit tougher. AUS-10 has roughly the same carbon content as 440C but with slightly less chromium, so it should be a bit less rust resistant but perhaps a bit tougher than 440C. All 3 steels have some vanadium added (which the 440 series lacks), which will improve wear resistance.
GIN-1 aka G-2 A: steel with slightly less carbon, slightly more chromium, and much less moly than ATS-34, it is used often by Spyderco. A very good stainless steel.
ATS-34 - 154-CM: The hottest high-end stainless right now. 154-CM is the original American version, but for a long time was not manufactured to the high quality standards knifemakers expect, and so is not used often anymore. Late-breaking news is that high-quality 154-CM may again be available. ATS-34 is a Hitachi product that is very, very similar to 154-CM, and is the premier high quality stainless. Normally hardened to around 60 Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that high hardness. Not quite as rust resistant as the 400 series above. Many custom makers use ATS-34, and Spyderco (in their high-end knives) and Benchmade are among the production companies that use it.
ATS-55: Similar to ATS-34, but with the moly removed and some other elements added. Not much is known about this steel yet, but it looks like the intent was to get ATS-34 edge-holding with increased toughness. Since moly is an expensive element useful for high-speed steels, and knife blades do not need to be high speed, removing the moly hopefully drastically decreases the price of the steel while at least retaining ATS-34's performance. Spyderco is using this steel.
BG-42: Bob Loveless announced recently that he's switching from ATS-34 to this steel. Keep an eye out for it, it's bound to catch on. BG-42 is somewhat similar to ATS-34, with two major differences: It has twice as much manganese as ATS-34, and has 1.2% vanadium (ATS-34 has no vanadium), so look for even better edge-holding than ATS-34. Chris Reeves has switched from ATS-34 to BG-42 in his Sebenzas.
CPM T440V - CPM T420V: Two steels that hold an edge superbly (better than ATS-34), but it's difficult to get the edge there in the first place. These steels are both high in vanadium. Spyderco offers at least one model in CPM T440V. Custom maker Sean McWilliams is a big fan of 440V, which he forges. Depending on heat treatment, expect to have to work a bit harder to sharpen these steels -- also, don't expect ATS-34 type toughness. 420V is CPM's follow-on to 440V, and with less chromium and almost double the vanadium, is more wear-resistant and may be tougher than 440V.
400 Series Stainless: Before Cold Steel switched to AUS-8, many of their stainless products were marketed as being of "400 Series Stainless". Other knife companies are beginning to use the same term. What exactly *is* 400 Series Stainless? I always imagined it was 440-A, but there's nothing to keep a company from using any 4xx steel, like 420 or 425M, and calling it 400 Series Stainless.
Non-Steels Used by Knifemakers

Cobalt - Stellite 6K: A flexible material with very good wear resistance, it is practically corrosion resistant. Stellite 6K, sometimes seen in knives, is a cobalt alloy. David Boye uses cobalt for his dive knives.
Titanium: Newer titanium alloys can be hardened near 50 Rc, and at that hardness seem to take something approaching a useful edge. It is extremely rust-resistant, and is non-magnetic. Popular as expensive dive knives these days, because the SEALs use it as their knife when working around magnetic-detonated mines. Mission knives uses titanium. Tygrys makes a knife with a steel edge sandwiched by titanium.
Ceramics: Numerous knives have been offered with ceramic blades. Usually, those blades are very very brittle, and cannot be sharpened by the user; however, they hold an edge well. Boker and Kyocera make knives from this type of ceramic. Kevin McClung recently came out with a ceramic composite knife blade that much tougher than the previous ceramics, tough enough to actually be useful as a knife blade for most jobs. It is also user-sharpenable, and holds an edge incredibly well.

 

[clt46910]

SOG over the S&W everytime. I have a few of both.

 

[Jeremiah]

not a fan of sog, but between the two I would definatley take sog.

Out the fron knives are not a gimmick but you need to handle a good one like microtech, best automatic knife on the market IMHO is the H.A.L.O. series single action out the front knives.

KAI USA : Kershaw Product Details

that is a manual out the front knife but in the gimmicky category as it is nearly usesless without its sheath.

 

[Turtle]

Any one recomend a good assisted opening knife? Preferably under say? 70$

 

[tyler34]

Any one recomend a good assisted opening knife? Preferably under say? 70$

you would be wanting kershaw sir.