Are the days of good. surplus weapon prices behind us?

[Ingomike]

Cars are a lot more expensive than guns.

You underestimate how popular guns are with younger people.

I think most gun people associate with gun people, and overestimate think pigs like this.

I hope you are right though…

 

[Redhorse]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said my friend. At times I sure am sad I was not old enough to be involved in guns back when the getting was good so to speak.

I had the same problem. By time I turned 21 (handgun laws suck) a lot of the milsurp handguns I was interested in were gone. I'm hoping a bunch of M9s come. through at a good price, but I have my doubts, especially with tensions in Europe on the rise. One. would think the US learned its lesson the last two times not having enough weapons in storage.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Boomers just want a ****ing mint for anything they have, even if it wasn’t earned

I'm not following. If we bought something when it was cheap, and now it's worth more through appreciation and market conditions, how is that not "earned"? The value of most of my guns have increased. I know this by seeing what they're selling for now. I'm not "wanting a mint" for anything, because I haven't been selling, but do you think I should sell them for what I paid for them out of the kindness of my heart if and when I do?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'm not following. If we bought something when it was cheap, and now it's worth more through appreciation and market conditions, how is that not "earned"? The value of most of my guns have increased. I know this by seeing what they're selling for now. I'm not "wanting a mint" for anything, because I haven't been selling, but do you think I should sell them for what I paid for them out of the kindness of my heart if and when I do?

Nobody would. Nobody that bought a house 10 years ago would sell it now for what they paid for it then. It sucks. There are a lot of things (including guns) that I’d like to buy now that I’ve reached the point in my life that I have disposable income but I can’t…at the prices I could have years ago.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Nobody would. Nobody that bought a house 10 years ago would sell it now for what they paid for it then. It sucks. There are a lot of things (including guns) that I’d like to buy now that I’ve reached the point in my life that I have disposable income but I can’t…at the prices I could have years ago.

I may have misunderstood what he was saying, so that's why I was asking. It sounded like he was implying that it's the boomers that caused the milsurp prices to go up out of greed or something.

 

[IUKalash429]

I'm not "wanting a mint" for anything, because I haven't been selling, but do you think I should sell them for what I paid for them out of the kindness of my heart if and when I do?

Kinda splitting the difference between you and the guy you quoted because there's truth to both sides of the discussion. I've handed money to and shot the breeze with plenty of INGO old timers (no disrespect meant, and despite what others say I definitely value my elders) who sell stuff for what I consider a fair price even in our current times. Alternatively, there are boomers here who seek a buck or more a round for surplus ammo that's not moving for half that on other forums.

I don't expect any older fellas to fork over their stuff to us for free - I've even told some INGO members in person when I think they're asking too little for something. But it puts a bad taste in my mouth when some folks spit out of one side of theirs about how the 2A is doomed due to millennials or whatever, only to drool out the other side seeking asinine prices for crap y'all used to literally fish out of gun shop trash cans and shipping containers.

It stinks for younger guys trying to get into milsurp or even current eastern bloc guns today, when supplies and prices have sucked for years and will only get much worse. Especially so when they're chided by older generations with carports full of ammo crates who don't actually shoot any of it, who say "bUy ChEaP sTaCk DeEp." We get it - you guys had it good for a long time. Certainly there can be some more room to meet in the middle.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Kinda splitting the difference between you and the guy you quoted because there's truth to both sides of the discussion. I've handed money to and shot the breeze with plenty of INGO old timers (no disrespect meant, and despite what others say I definitely value my elders) who sell stuff for what I consider a fair price even in our current times. Alternatively, there are boomers here who seek a buck or more a round for surplus ammo that's not moving for half that on other forums.

I don't expect any older fellas to fork over their stuff to us for free - I've even told some INGO members in person when I think they're asking too little for something. But it puts a bad taste in my mouth when some folks spit out of one side of theirs about how the 2A is doomed due to millennials or whatever, only to drool out the other side seeking asinine prices for crap y'all used to literally fish out of gun shop trash cans and shipping containers.

It stinks for younger guys trying to get into milsurp or even current eastern bloc guns today, when supplies and prices have sucked for years and will only get much worse. Especially so when they're chided by older generations with carports full of ammo crates who don't actually shoot any of it, who say "bUy ChEaP sTaCk DeEp." We get it - you guys had it good for a long time. Certainly there can be some more room to meet in the middle.

I've seen the same things (surplus ammo especially!), and I won't pay those prices either. Because I did "bUy ChEaP sTaCk DeEp." You won't see me busting anyone's chops because they didn't have that opportunity because they were too young, or weren't into guns when it was that cheap. I will have sympathy for them.

Heck, I didn't really start getting into guns in any kind of serious way until about 2010, and really ramped it up about 2012, so yeah I missed out on the trash cans full of Enfields and Mausers and $69 SKS's too. I get it. I'm envious of the guys that did! And really, I didn't go nuts and start buying up ammo and guns with the thought of making money in the future. I was just a gun nut! And I took an interest in the older stuff, because I was fascinated by it. I loved the history and the quality and appreciated the guns that were being made for military purposes back then that now seem like works of art compared to an M16 or M4 or Beretta M9 or any modern "weapon of war" really.

Ever see a national crest roll-marked into the receiver or barrel of a modern gun? I haven't. Ever seen a beautiful tiger-striped wood grain stock on any of those guns? Me either! I love that stuff! They've got "soul", if you know what I mean. That's what it's all about for me.

When I do eventually start liquidating my collection (and I will someday), I'm not going to sell them for what I paid. I will sell them at current market price, and maybe slightly lower depending on how quickly I want them gone. Why? Because I'm not stupid. If I listed my $99 Mosin for $200 today, people would think they're getting a bargain when they're going for $300-400 regularly now.

If you had a '32 Ford Coupe that originally sold for $1000.00 or so brand new, would you sell it for that? Or would you sell it for the $30-40K that you could get for it today?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

It's kind of like preferring Victorian age furniture over IKEA crap that is made today...

 

[Warrior1354]

I have been collecting military surplus firearms for close to 15 years now. Started doing it fresh out of high school in 2008, and have built a fine collection thanks to finding good deals out there. Plus not to mention the friendships I have built over these years with fellow collectors. But the military surplus collecting market IMO is not doing well. The ogca shows, and the SOS military show tells me that. The main buyers are between the ages of 40-70. Very few collectors my age. And I'm not some tight budget collector either. I came home with three fine scarce Mausers from that SOS show last month. But lets put the realty of the current situation up. If the new 19 year old young collector attended let's say the Indy 1500 show this weekend. And he wanted just your average of the mill M91/30 Russian rifle. He would pay $450 for one and it comes with nothing. If he wants a HEX receiver well you need to add another $100. Bayonet now $25. Sling $25. Of course you want that pig skin ammo pouch with all the goodies right. Has that bolt take down tool and oiler another $20. Now I want a big spam can of 440 rounds of good old Russian surplus, well that's another $400. Would you like some 5 round stripper clips too? Well that would be $5 a piece sir. Not to mention the $10 for parking, the what $20 to get in, and the $4.25 per gallon to drive there. That's alot of money for a young man. I remember how long it took me to save up a $1000 when I was that age too. But you go to show with $1000 in your pocket. You can buy, maybe one surplus gun? Still at the age of 32 I really do miss the days of buying those wonderful K31 rifles for $275, your typical M91/30 for $180 with all the goodies, Chilean crested 1895 Mausers for $400, Chinese SKS carbines for $300, Russian SKS carbines for $500, CMP correct grade M1 rifles for $950, and so much more. I mean Gewehrs my favorite rifle! I could buy those all day long for under $500 or maybe $750 they were half the cost of the German K98k. Not anymore. The other was the 1886 Lebel. My first one in 2013 cost me $250. That same matching rifle would sell for $2000 now.

Still if someone has to spend close to $1000 with ammo or more for an old Soviet five round bolt action rifle? When they can spend what $600 and build their own AR from a kit. I'm seeing alot more of that now.

I'll be honest I bought my Mausers and my surplus guns because I enjoy the hobby. Not as an investment. Sadly that is what, it has turned into. A really good machine gun owner friend of mine tells me that all the time. I have always wanted a matching papered MP40 like he has. But in 2004 he paid $5000 for his. The same gun would cost close to $30,000. His two MG08/15 Maxims $2500, and with all the items in 2002. Both would cost close to $15,000 a piece now.

 

[Ark]

I think those days are mostly behind us. Just like a lot of things that are getting older, it is hard to "go back". The market is shrinking for milsurp stuff in general. Boomers are rapidly reaching the end of their consumptive years and the following generations are losing interest in anything "old".

This is completely backwards. Prices are skyrocketing because demand has exploded due to younger people watching Forgotten Weapons and playing Battlefield 1. Milsurp stopped being a forgotten niche for old people. Everyone wants cool old guns now, and they blew the remaining stock out in a short couple of years.

Garand Thumb has almost two million subscribers and posted an SKS video today. It'll have a million views by tomorrow morning. That's a million people who now know what an SKS is and want one.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

This is completely backwards. Prices are skyrocketing because demand has exploded due to younger people watching Forgotten Weapons and playing Battlefield 1. Milsurp stopped being a forgotten niche for old people. Everyone wants cool old guns now, and they blew the remaining stock out in a short couple of years.

Garand Thumb has almost two million subscribers and posted an SKS video today. It'll have a million views by tomorrow morning. That's a million people who now know what an SKS is and want one.

But... Boomers!! I'm thrilled that younger generations are interested in the old stuff honestly. And I AM sympathetic that they couldn't get in on the "good old days" pricing. I didn't even get in on the "really good old days" pricing.

I've shown my grandson some of my old milsurp rifles (he's 13 and small for his age). His eyes just get big when I talk to him about soldiers not much bigger than him lugging them through the forests and jungles of WWI and WWII. He's definitely part of the AR-15/light weight weapon generation.

 

[Warrior1354]

Indeed they were all quite young. In times of peace sons bury their fathers, in times of war fathers bury their sons.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

And I feel a little like Crocodile Dundee in the "That's not a knife!" scene when I show him the difference between a 5.56 round and an 8mm Mauser, 7.62x51 or 30-06 round.

 

[Tombs]

I'm not following. If we bought something when it was cheap, and now it's worth more through appreciation and market conditions, how is that not "earned"? The value of most of my guns have increased. I know this by seeing what they're selling for now. I'm not "wanting a mint" for anything, because I haven't been selling, but do you think I should sell them for what I paid for them out of the kindness of my heart if and when I do?

It's a collective ordeal rather than an individual deciding to jack the prices.

TBH, it's more the fault of the buyers. Just like with cars.
Some folks with real money get interested, and force everyone else out.

Just like how a 90's toyota supra in decent condition will fetch $80k+ now, when a decade ago it was $10-20k.

 

[Ark]

But... Boomers!! I'm thrilled that younger generations are interested in the old stuff honestly. And I AM sympathetic that they couldn't get in on the "good old days" pricing. I didn't even get in on the "really good old days" pricing.

I've shown my grandson some of my old milsurp rifles (he's 13 and small for his age). His eyes just get big when I talk to him about soldiers not much bigger than him lugging them through the forests and jungles of WWI and WWII. He's definitely part of the AR-15/light weight weapon generation.

I'm part of the problem. I'm in my 30s and I just spent the afternoon loading 8mm Mauser, .303, and 6.5 Carcano. I bought that stuff because of Forgotten Weapons. "Of course I know him. He's me."

The boomers dying off will free up some guns, but those will go to auction houses and get top dollar. We're all waiting for prices on 1968 Dodge Chargers to tank because the boomers are dying...hasn't happened yet. Demand isn't going anywhere but up, supply isn't going anywhere but down.

 

[Warrior1354]

That is what happened to the machine gun collector market Tombs. Big time buyers with large amounts of cash bought a crap load of machine guns. Why? Better investments to them then stocks and bonds. Machine guns skyrocketed in price after 2009. I use to think $15,000 for a BAR was crazy. Nowadays you couldn't touch one for under $40,000. The big laugh to me M3 Grease guns for $35,000. When they were being made at the Guide lamp factory for under $40. If with inflation costs factored in that is $700 in todays money. Still we can say the same thing about land prices. Price of land is crazy. But guess what their not making anymore land.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I'm part of the problem. I'm in my 30s and I just spent the afternoon loading 8mm Mauser, .303, and 6.5 Carcano. I bought that stuff because of Forgotten Weapons. "Of course I know him. He's me."

The boomers dying off will free up some guns, but those will go to auction houses and get top dollar. We're all waiting for prices on 1968 Dodge Chargers to tank because the boomers are dying...hasn't happened yet. Demand isn't going anywhere but up, supply isn't going anywhere but down.

Well you're out of luck. I'm gonna live forever. So far, so good!

 

[Ark]

Well you're out of luck. I'm gonna live forever. So far, so good!

My will stipulates a Viking funeral with all my cars and guns, so none of y'all getting any of my stuff.

Said funeral may be scheduled with very limited notice...and involve a Predator and a Hellfire...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I'm part of the problem. I'm in my 30s and I just spent the afternoon loading 8mm Mauser, .303, and 6.5 Carcano. I bought that stuff because of Forgotten Weapons. "Of course I know him. He's me."

The boomers dying off will free up some guns, but those will go to auction houses and get top dollar. We're all waiting for prices on 1968 Dodge Chargers to tank because the boomers are dying...hasn't happened yet. Demand isn't going anywhere but up, supply isn't going anywhere but down.

I haven't reloaded any 8mm Mauser yet, but I've reloaded .303 Brit and 6.5 Carcano. The only reason I haven't reloaded 8mm yet is that I've got so much of it (and it's not reloadable). I have reloaded 8mm Lebel though. Hard to find surplus Lebel these days. I'd love to reload my 7.5 Swiss but the GP-11 is Berdan primed and the primers are pretty much unobtanium now. It's such beautiful brass though... makes me sad.

 

[Warrior1354]

I'm part of the problem. I'm in my 30s and I just spent the afternoon loading 8mm Mauser, .303, and 6.5 Carcano. I bought that stuff because of Forgotten Weapons. "Of course I know him. He's me."

The boomers dying off will free up some guns, but those will go to auction houses and get top dollar. We're all waiting for prices on 1968 Dodge Chargers to tank because the boomers are dying...hasn't happened yet. Demand isn't going anywhere but up, supply isn't going anywhere but down.

I wouldn't bet on just auction houses could go through private buyers. Better for the family sometimes. If you send a collection through Rock island they take a percentage of the sale. And then send a 1099 of your cut to the IRS, and you buy taxes on that money. Even Gunbroker is doing that now. If you sell over $600 in sales for the year. Pay those taxes! Those 30 G/K43 rifles that sold at the Tulsa show are a prefect example. They all sold $3000 a piece. That's $90,000 in cash for the family. No auction house, no hassle, no BS, just cash and gone.