Are the Anti's finally starting to listen and think?

[femurphy77]

Quick search didn't reveal another thread elsewhere: How to Understand Georgia's 'Guns Everywhere' Law: Four Blunt Points - Businessweek

Bloombergs rag prints an anti gun story that might make sense.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Quick search didn't reveal another thread elsewhere: How to Understand Georgia's 'Guns Everywhere' Law: Four Blunt Points - Businessweek

Bloombergs rag prints an anti gun story that might make sense.

You really want to make a difference? How about the "pro-gun" forces and the "anti-gun" forces team up, ignore the gun, and focus on what neither of us like... CRIMINALS! Lock the sunzab****es up and keep them that way.... Stop tying the hands of the good people who just want to not be victims, and let the lawbreakers take their chances.

Georgia had great success (for many reasons) with a law about 32 years ago. It was a law that had no "teeth"... that is, there was no penalty prescribed for breaking it, and it was a law with which those affected were mostly in compliance, anyway. In short, it was a "feel good" law, and it had the purpose of thumbing a nose at a community in Illinois of similar size and demographic that had passed an "opposite" law...As most of you know, the law passed in IL was that no one in the small community of Morton Grove was permitted to have a gun, not even in their home. In contrast, Kennesaw, GA passed an ordinance that *required* every head of household (with some notable exceptions) to have a gun and to maintain it.
Prior to the law's passage, both communities had crime rates in excess of the national average. The last article I saw, which was about 6 or 7 years ago, showed that Kennesaw's crime rate plummeted and Morton Grove's skyrocketed, and Kennesaw's was STILL lower, 25 or so years later, than it had been before the law passed, despite the population quadrupling. Morton Grove's population dwindled and their crime rate stayed high.

Now... none of this surprises anyone here, of course, but the point is that the criminals, knowing that the community had even made a symbolic gesture toward its own safety, sought safer hunting grounds. Kennesaw found something that worked for them. Will it work everywhere? We can't know that for sure, but we've seen that getting tough on criminals and presenting them with immediate consequences for their actions (you know, like dying) makes them consider whether what they intend to do is worth the risk. I think that's a good strategy. I'd love to see more places (with different demographics) try the Kennesaw experiment as well.

If the author of this Bloomberg article doesn't want to go to a synagogue where his fellow worshippers are likely to be lawfully armed, that is his choice. Me.... if I went to an organized house of worship, I'd be very happy to sit next to people who took their responsibilities for their own safety seriously.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Hornett]

Is violent crime really down in New York City?
I, too, would like to know how they did that.

 

[indiucky]

Is violent crime really down in New York City?
I, too, would like to know how they did that.

They banned large soda's which eliminated the need for folks to try to find a public bathroom....Less people "holding it in" and having to approach shop owners to use their facilites naturally lowered the crime rate...


You know the Old saying, "An empty bladder makes the crook gladder"......

 

[Captain Morgan]

Is violent crime really down in New York City?
I, too, would like to know how they did that.

Yeah, I'd like to see some fbi stats on this one.

 

[buckstopshere]

Is violent crime really down in New York City?
I, too, would like to know how they did that.

The guys who wrote freakanomics attribute it to abortion. Less unwanted kids means less future criminals.

 

[throttletony]

The guys who wrote freakanomics attribute it to abortion. Less unwanted kids means less future criminals.

haha, yes.
Point 4 in the article was actually REALLY good and had me going... until the last sentence.

 

[sb0]

Yeah, I'd like to see some fbi stats on this one.

A quick google search will get you some stats. Crime has plummeted in New York City since the 90s, to an insane degree.

The reasons are plenty, but all of the research I've done indicates that it has had little if anything to do with gun laws. New York has been one of the most innovative and aggressive locales in recent history when it comes to crime reduction, so there are many factors at play.

Crime in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bill of Rights]

IIRC, Giuliani started the practice of increasing the number of police officers out patrolling, looking for any criminal activity or any reasonable facsimile thereof. He shut down street vendors and started charging the guys who'd run out and try to wash your windows so you'd pay them... Way back when, we used to call that "capitalism", someone trying to make a buck by actually working for a living, rather than sucking at the big gov't teat.

Considering NY, and NYC in particular, has had some strong gun laws for a long time, these same officers cracked down on those, too, thus making themselves the only ones who could stop a crime in progress, IF they were around. In spite of that, crime is still down, because of all the other stuff they did, regardless of whose liberties were trampled in the process. The end justifies the means, right? Right?

I have family there that I will never visit. I'd like them to leave and the whole da*n place fall off into the ocean or just burn.

I wouldn't do anything to make that happen even if I could... but I wouldn't mourn the City if it was gone.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jwh20]

[h=2]Are the Anti's finally starting to listen and think?[/h]

Simply put: NO!

They are simply biding their time waiting for the next opportunity to fuel the emotions that give them their power. Remember, the anti-guns forces are NEVER going to change their stand. Guns are merely one thing that stands in the path of their ultimate objective to reshape our society into their vision of Utopia.

 

[billt]

NO, the anti's will never "listen & think" in regards to guns. The reason is because their "thinking" has nothing to do with guns, and everything to do with CONTROL. The sooner all pro gun people understand this, the better off the Second Amendment will be. The anti's HATE the Second Amendment, along with every other guaranteed right, because it prevents them from further achieving CONTROL.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Rather than engage with the NRA on the cultural battlefield, where gun-rights advocates have the upper hand, liberals should focus on the most-pressing problem related to firearms—that their prevalence in American society makes our violent crime more lethal.

Though I think the article made some decent points, the author is still looking at the wrong point in the timeline of a crime. A murder or shooting that takes place, lethal or not, it is still the gun's fault according to Barrett. No, it's not any inanimate object's fault. There is something that drives people to take their anger, delusions, sicknesses to such ends...and those things are difficult, if not impossible to address. Those issues are messy and complicated. Pointing to and blaming guns is easy and non-personal...it's easier to fix things than people.

 

[Mark 1911]

I have family there that I will never visit. I'd like them to leave and the whole da*n place fall off into the ocean or just burn.

I am of the same mind as you as when it comes to visiting that place. I have family in NY and also in NJ. I won't be visiting those states any time soon unless they reform their carry laws. I would like to visit the Twin Towers site some day, Statue of Liberty as well. But that is not likely any time soon. The only thing I would make an exception for is to attend a wedding or a funeral of a family member.

 

[cosermann]

The anti's are just in a position of weakness right now. If they're ever again in a position of strength and the issue comes up, they'll do whatever they want.

 

[jgreiner]

Quick search didn't reveal another thread elsewhere: How to Understand Georgia's 'Guns Everywhere' Law: Four Blunt Points - Businessweek

Bloombergs rag prints an anti gun story that might make sense.

Fat chance of them learning anything. Until they get assaulted.

 

[Smokepole]

Are the Anti's finally starting to listen and think?

No they are just adjusting their rhetoric and modifying their line during a time when they are losing badly.

Is violent crime really down in New York City?
I, too, would like to know how they did that.

A quick google search will get you some stats. Crime has plummeted in New York City since the 90s, to an insane degree.

The reasons are plenty, but all of the research I've done indicates that it has had little if anything to do with gun laws. New York has been one of the most innovative and aggressive locales in recent history when it comes to crime reduction, so there are many factors at play.

Crime in New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IIRC, Giuliani started the practice of increasing the number of police officers out patrolling, looking for any criminal activity or any reasonable facsimile thereof. He shut down street vendors and started charging the guys who'd run out and try to wash your windows so you'd pay them... Way back when, we used to call that "capitalism", someone trying to make a buck by actually working for a living, rather than sucking at the big gov't teat.

Considering NY, and NYC in particular, has had some strong gun laws for a long time, these same officers cracked down on those, too, thus making themselves the only ones who could stop a crime in progress, IF they were around. In spite of that, crime is still down, because of all the other stuff they did, regardless of whose liberties were trampled in the process. The end justifies the means, right? Right?

I have family there that I will never visit. I'd like them to leave and the whole da*n place fall off into the ocean or just burn.

I wouldn't do anything to make that happen even if I could... but I wouldn't mourn the City if it was gone.

Blessings,
Bill

If I remember correctly, one of the policies that Guiliani instituted (that garnered a lot of the credit) was the "Broken Windows" policy of enforcement. Put more cops on the beat for a greater enforcement presence and ACTIVELY look for crimes in progress and/or about to be committed. You take care of the small things as well as getting to know the people and the neighborhood and you will come across the big things (and many times head them off) in the process and the people will feel more invested and help stop and/or solve local crime. A policy that makes complete sense. And works just about everywhere it is tried. But it requires "MANPOWER" and the willingness to DO IT when put into action and corruption in the police force must be aggressively prosecuted with prejudice. It would likely work here too. But the city's gotta put up the manpower and stick to the policy. It they can do that it should work here too.

 

[SteveM4A1]

If I remember correctly, one of the policies that Guiliani instituted (that garnered a lot of the credit) was the "Broken Windows" policy of enforcement. Put more cops on the beat for a greater enforcement presence and ACTIVELY look for crimes in progress and/or about to be committed. You take care of the small things as well as getting to know the people and the neighborhood and you will come across the big things (and many times head them off) in the process and the people will feel more invested and help stop and/or solve local crime. A policy that makes complete sense. And works just about everywhere it is tried. But it requires "MANPOWER" and the willingness to DO IT when put into action and corruption in the police force must be aggressively prosecuted with prejudice. It would likely work here too. But the city's gotta put up the manpower and stick to the policy. It they can do that it should work here too.

Yea, let's implement NYPD's policies to lower crime here. I personally love to be stopped and frisked on sight. Only one request: their hands must be warm.

 

[sb0]

And yes, let's all keep in mind that this is a group of people that will ***** and moan about "compromise" (which doesn't mean what they think it means) when they're losing, but the second they have any power, they'll steamroll you.

Screw them.

I am of the same mind as you as when it comes to visiting that place. I have family in NY and also in NJ. I won't be visiting those states any time soon unless they reform their carry laws. I would like to visit the Twin Towers site some day, Statue of Liberty as well. But that is not likely any time soon. The only thing I would make an exception for is to attend a wedding or a funeral of a family member.

I lived in the DC metro, was born there and lived there for ~24 years. Left 6 months ago, never stepping foot back there. Ever. For any reason. And I grew up there.

 

[Smokepole]

Yea, let's implement NYPD's policies to lower crime here. I personally love to be stopped and frisked on sight. Only one request: their hands must be warm.

Let's not add things that I didn't say please. Stop and Frisk wasn't part of Broken Windows (it came later under Doomburg) and I neither referenced nor suggested it. Let's try not to follow the Chris Matthews/Piers Morgan playbook please.

 

[armedindy]

Is violent crime really down in New York City?
I, too, would like to know how they did that.

they made the rent too high for low-lifes to be able to afford living within the city