are "1911 style" guns in 9mm shooters?

[9rows]

ok, first of all ..... please don't turn this into a "the only 1911 is a .45 1911" thread.

i highly value commonality of ammunition between my firearms. 9mm is my pistol ammunition of choice.

i have been researching 9mm 1911 style guns. this research led me to a podcast ("down range" with michael bane, iirc) where the host indicated most 9mm 1911's were not inherently good shooters. he blathered on with some techno-jargon that bored me about why he felt this was the case.

he was of the opinion that you should plan on spending some time and money with a good 'smith to get one functioning properly. ie, making the gun a 100% shooter.

so i would like to hear any experiences (good and/or bad) from any 9mm 1911 owners.

tia.

 

[jmb79]

My only experience with a 9mm 1911 style pistol is with the Springfield EMP which I recently purchased and which my wife has appropriated as her own.

This pistol has not had a single malfunction and has consistenly fed and fired Blazer Brass, Remington UMC, Winchester White Box and Federal 147 gr. HST. Notwithstanding its 3" barrel, the pistol is extremely accurate.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Yep... +2 on the EMP.

The person you were listening to has obviously not fired one of those.

The EMP is WAY more accurate than it has a right to be...

-J-

 

[dice dealer]

most 1911 style pistol i have had the honor of owning or shooting were good shooters ...
A buddy of mine had a 1911 style .380 that was one of the best .380's i ever shot ...
most 1911 style pistols are awsome

 

[singlestacksig]

yes there are several fine shooting 9mm ones to be found..
with less recoil a follow up shot is quicker..

 

[G McBride]

I have been thinking of an EMP for my wife to try. She has problems with racking the slide on a semi auto and the short barreled pistols usually have stiffer springs to help with the recoil. How is the EMP compared to a full size 9MM to rack the slide?

 

[huawilso]

I think it all depends on what you are comfortable shooting. If it's 45acp, 9mm, or 38 super. You must find the right caliber for you and your shooting abilities and when you find what is best for you, you can perfect your shooting at the range. What works best for me might not be suitable for you. I personally like the 45 acp 1911 specifically my Smith & Wesson PD Commander model.

 

[jmb79]

I have been thinking of an EMP for my wife to try. She has problems with racking the slide on a semi auto and the short barreled pistols usually have stiffer springs to help with the recoil. How is the EMP compared to a full size 9MM to rack the slide?

In addition to the EMP, my wife has a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm (full size). The EMP slide is easier for her to rack than the M&P.

In addition, and most importantly for my wife who has small hands, the grip circumferance of the EMP is a little more than .25" less than the M&P when the small size backstrap is installed on the M&P.

 

[Wesley929]

Kimber 9mm

Kimber has a few of their 1911 models chambered in 9mm. Although they're expensive they release tight, good shooting guns. I give em .

 

[Fenway]

Calling Rhino..... Come in Rhino

 

[ChrisK]

Yep... +2 on the EMP.

The person you were listening to has obviously not fired one of those.

The EMP is WAY more accurate than it has a right to be...

-J-

+1 on the EMP Best 1911 9mm I have ever shot. Thanks for breaking it in for me IndyGuy 77.

 

[rhino]

By popular demand!

I suspect that Michael Bane was referring to reliability issues with the 9mm and 1911-style handguns. He's absolutely right, because it's not easy getting a 1911 to function with 9mm. It's not as bad as .40, but it's not like .38 super or .45ACP. The probalem is that the 9mm (9x19mm) is a little too short compared to the .45ACP and .38 super.

Now, you can not compare the Springfield EMP to 1911s chambered in 9mm. The EMP functions like a 1911 and looks like a 1911, but it was designed from the start as a platform for the 9x19mm round. The magazines, frame/grip, etc. are all sized for the 9mm.

There are two ways to get a 9mm 1911. Either get one already chambered in 9mm or get a .38 super and have a 9mm barrel fitted. I'm not sure which path will be less expensive or less frustrating. It will depend entirely on the specific gun you acquire, its tolerances, and who you get to work on it.

I've seen few 9mm 1911s that functioned 100% as purchased. Those guns I've seen that do work well have usually had significant work done to them, although there are always exceptions. If you purchase a 9mm 1911 new, you should expect it to require some work to get it functional.

So, some might think, why bother with that when I can get a Sig or a Glock in 9mm and it will function perfectly? Well, if that's what you want, that's what you should get. On the other hand, if you want a 1911 chambered in 1911, it's worth the hassles.

My Springfield was a problem child from the beginning. Part of that was due to poor quality control, and part was due to the inherent difficulties in making 1911 reliable in 9mm. I did some of the minor work myself (installed/fitted/tuned an extractor, short trigger, thin grips, for instance). It worked okay after that, but it had horrible problems with accuracy. I had a friend fit an S&A magwell to it. I had Neil Keller Kustom Ballistics take it and he did some work. He welded the lugs and hood on the barrel and refit it to the frame. He also fit a new bushing (one of then new S-V bushings that only has four points of contact), and recut the channels in the frame where the trigger bow rests/slides (they were not cut properly at the factory). He also narrowed the front sight so it's about 0.090 in. wide.

Before it would not hold a full magazine worth of shots on an IPSC target at 25 yards from a rest. Now it will shoot fist-size groups at 25 yards offhand (if you can do it), and probably better from a rest. As of 09JAN09, it had 20,114 rounds through it, with 1811 rounds since the last malfunction. The only maintenance it sees is that when I have failure to go into battery or it just feels too dry, I remove the slide, wipe with a paper towel or napkin, and relube with Kellube. It has not been disassembled and cleaned thoroughly since well before the 1000 round mark. I have a new recoil spring and firing pin spring, but I have not yet installed them.

So, it went from a gun that I would not sell because I would not burden someone else with its problems to a gun I will never sell because I like it so much.

Is all of that trouble worth it? In retrospect, yes. It's the most fun gun to shoot I've owned (other than .22s). When 9mm ammo was less expensive, it was as fun as any .22. It almost feels like shooting a .22 as well, with minimal felt recoil and almost no muzzle flip.

Is it for everyone? No way. Unless you get lucky with a gun that works well out of the box, it can be a long road to getting a good gun. For me it was worth it.

If I were going to buy one now, I would probably get an STI Trojan or other STI single stack in 9mm. That would people be the best chance of getting one that works. If Rock Island Armory/Armscor would import one, it would be a good bet too (and inexpensive). If Taurus would make a PT1911 in 9mm, I'd already have one.

Another issue is magazines. Until recently, 9mm 1911s were finicky about magazines. For most guns, the 9rd Springfield/Metalform mags continue to be the most reliable. In addition, last year Metalform, Wilson, and Tripp all released 10rd 9mm mags. I can verify that the Metalforms work well in my gun. I can also verify that I could not afford to buy them; I got mine as prizes at a match last year.

 

[Bluedragon]

I have seen colt series 70's in government and commander coming in 9mm. also at the 1500 i saw a springfield armory mil spec 1911a1 in 9mm. They are there you just have to look.... also 9mm is my favorite caliber. but for the capacity in the 1911 i prefer the 45acp just for the extra power. but cost of ammo is such a bitch..... >_>

 

[9rows]

By popular demand!

I suspect that Michael Bane was referring to reliability issues with the 9mm and 1911-style handguns. He's absolutely right, because it's not easy getting a 1911 to function with 9mm. It's not as bad as .40, but it's not like .38 super or .45ACP. The probalem is that the 9mm (9x19mm) is a little too short compared to the .45ACP and .38 super.

Now, you can not compare the ~snip~

thank you for a thorough and informative post

rep'd

 

[rhino]

You are welcome, sir!

 

[Substance-P]

In a somewhat ironic twist, the only Kimber I have had good luck with is one chambered in 9mm. Although the 9mm 1911 is typically more finicky than the .45, the Kimber Aegis II that my Dad, Brother, and I share custody of has been 100% when I've used it and an incredibly accurate and EASY shooting gun. It almost feels like cheating when using a full sized 1911 chambered in 9mm.
The Aegis is the the two toned one in the family pic below:

 

[rhino]

Wanna sell it?

 

[Substance-P]

Wanna sell it?

it is one of the few guns that all three of us love (Brother, Dad, and me), so it will likely stay in the collection for good. But rhino, you are on the top of the nonfamily list

 

[rhino]

Good answer!

I've only know a couple of people who sold fully functional 9mm 1911s, and both of them were the kind of guys who are always selling their guns and buying others. To me, a 9mm 1911 that works really well is something you never sell. Kind of like an AR in .308 that functions 100%. You just don't let it go!