Another no knock warrant goes bad

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Let's just be honest. No one on here is defending no knock warrants. It's a bad idea. It's unconstitutional, it's reckless, in that it puts the lives of both LEOs and possible uninvolved civilians at risk, lots of people WOULD come out shooting, and, in the end, it's just not worth it. If the house is surrounded, and they're not gonna get away with flushing evidence down the toilet, then do it the right way.
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[mrjarrell]

No one I know of.

In this country you are innocent until proven guilty and you have the right to be safe in your own home and with a reasonable expectation of privacy. You also have the right to defend your home and person from invasion by unknown attackers in the middle of the night.

That hasn't been the case in a few no knocks, Jack. Shoot at cops and they will arrest you and see to it that you go to trial. If you manage to get away with not being shot or having your pets killed, you're likely to find yourself in jail. Research Corey Maye down in MS. He defended himself and got sent to death row for it. Luckily there were good people out there that got him off death row, but he's still rotting in prison.

 

[XMil]

Also, if I did have kids, they would not be in a house set up where I would have to go clear across the place to get to them. If they can't be across the hall or similar, then I am not going to move into that house.

As for criminals IDing themselves as police, I revert to Plan A. Yell through the door. They will not have the patience police will have and will break in or just take what they will and leave.

What makes you think that people who just busted down your front door will patiently wait at your bedroom door while you sort out whether or not they are cops?

I ask, because the people on the other side of that door don't give a rats *** about your safety, they are only concerned about getting in and catching you with the dope, which at this point, correctly or incorrectly, they believe you have.

This type of raid should only be used in the case of a person who is actively involved in committing violent acts, period.

I assume the real reason it is done, is so that whoever dared to believe they were a free person, doesn't flush the evidence down the toilet.

 

[RCB]

Yeah, those no-knocks are unconstitutional, dangerous and simply not needed.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Door gets kicked in = shots fired , period , end of story .

That said , other than speeding I'm pretty boring so hopefully I wont have to worry about this kinda thing .

 

[Disposable Heart]

What makes you think that people who just busted down your front door will patiently wait at your bedroom door while you sort out whether or not they are cops?

I ask, because the people on the other side of that door don't give a rats *** about your safety, they are only concerned about getting in and catching you with the dope, which at this point, correctly or incorrectly, they believe you have.

This type of raid should only be used in the case of a person who is actively involved in committing violent acts, period.

I assume the real reason it is done, is so that whoever dared to believe they were a free person, doesn't flush the evidence down the toilet.

I agree completely. That is the concept I want to adopt. No Knocks are horribly dangerous to any and ALL parties. I dont even believe that the police pursuing even a "dangerous" criminal should adopt a no knock. Surround, knock power out, wait. Only and Only if shots are fired by the bad guy should they storm the house.

If I attempt to identify, the police say screw it, shoot me, they are screwed. Any remanent of my family (in house or out) would sue the crap out of the city. The report would show I attempted to see who it was, they shot me up anyways. At least in that regard, the family would recieve benefit from me dying.

Me charging out to meet police in a horrible gun battle with NO attempt to identify would result in nothing and a terrible loss. If I survive, I am a cop killer, doomed to the Obliette. If I die, I am yet another in an endless line of criminals.

I guess I want to state that if there is a "miss-knock", I am screwed no matter what. Shooting cops will only serve to make me a criminal of the highest order and hurt our 2nd amendment cause. If its criminals posing as cops, I may be up the creek anyways. If the police do not stop at the bedroom door, they may have issues. If they come in after I tell them I am armed, they may need to have their heads examined.

I think further review of the police and their no knock tactics should be done. There should be a way to double verify the address and who could be inside. They want to get the bad dude, I know. But that is no reason to knock on the wrong door and kill innocents.

 

[Disposable Heart]

That said , other than speeding I'm pretty boring so hopefully I wont have to worry about this kinda thing .

This is my concept. There should be no reason for them to noknock if they did their homework.

 

[UltraRick]

Door gets kicked in = shots fired , period , end of story .

That said , other than speeding I'm pretty boring so hopefully I wont have to worry about this kinda thing .

Me too. I hope they go to the correct house and not mine though...

 

[Lucas156]

this is bs thats all I got to say. When the government goes knocking down doors and shooting at God knows what they have crossed the line.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Also, if I did have kids, they would not be in a house set up where I would have to go clear across the place to get to them. If they can't be across the hall or similar, then I am not going to move into that house.

As for criminals IDing themselves as police, I revert to Plan A. Yell through the door. They will not have the patience police will have and will break in or just take what they will and leave.

You think police with a no knock warrant are going to have patience. LOL, that's so cute.

 

[Mrmonte]

I have no reason to believe that the police would ever come break down my door in the middle of the night. Therefore, im under the assumption that anyone breaking down my door is up to no good, whether they are shouting police or not. I will be holding down my bedroom while my wife is calling 911 to send an ambulance and police officers ASAP. Until I hear sirens outside and know the police have arrived, im shooting anyone that tries to clear my bedroom door. My families safety comes first in my home.

 

[Disposable Heart]

You think police with a no knock warrant are going to have patience. LOL, that's so cute.

That is pretty much what I said before. If they have a modicum of training, they may realize WTF they just did. If they dont, my family makes out in the lawsuit to follow.

Cute? Naw. Just optimism when I know I am getting screwed...

 

[mospeada]

No knocks are just plain bad and in too many instances are used simply because the .gov needs to utilize all those para-military officers they have to justify their existence. Look, I know SWAT has it's place and is a useful tool, but it's over-utilized IMO.

BTW, if you wanted to surprise drug dealers, shouldn't you be kicking the door in at 8am or so and not their prime operating hours?

 

[Jack Ryan]

I would not give the intruders any warning of my being armed...why would you tell them that? If they were cops, they have darn sure better have already identified themselves as such...

If they yell "We are cops" as your front door hits the floor, then what? How would they identify themselves at that point even if they are real cops? Does it make a difference if they are cops or not? Cops rob places too. Cops break in places and kill people too. Later they SOMETIMES say "oops, gee whiz, sorry, wrong number". So what? You are still dead.

 

[MeltonLaw]

I agree completely. That is the concept I want to adopt. No Knocks are horribly dangerous to any and ALL parties. I dont even believe that the police pursuing even a "dangerous" criminal should adopt a no knock. Surround, knock power out, wait. Only and Only if shots are fired by the bad guy should they storm the house.

If I attempt to identify, the police say screw it, shoot me, they are screwed. Any remanent of my family (in house or out) would sue the crap out of the city. The report would show I attempted to see who it was, they shot me up anyways. At least in that regard, the family would recieve benefit from me dying.

Me charging out to meet police in a horrible gun battle with NO attempt to identify would result in nothing and a terrible loss. If I survive, I am a cop killer, doomed to the Obliette. If I die, I am yet another in an endless line of criminals.

I guess I want to state that if there is a "miss-knock", I am screwed no matter what. Shooting cops will only serve to make me a criminal of the highest order and hurt our 2nd amendment cause. If its criminals posing as cops, I may be up the creek anyways. If the police do not stop at the bedroom door, they may have issues. If they come in after I tell them I am armed, they may need to have their heads examined.

I think further review of the police and their no knock tactics should be done. There should be a way to double verify the address and who could be inside. They want to get the bad dude, I know. But that is no reason to knock on the wrong door and kill innocents.

I have to say that this is a wee bit un-realistic. Yes your family would sue but there are two inherent problems with that. 1st you are already dead and no amount of money will change that nor will it comfort your friends and family in your absence. 2nd no matter how many trust worthy police officers there are, there are those that will and do lie to cover their asses. Just recently there was an incident out of Virginia I believe in which a small town mayor's house was raided. Afterwhich he overheard one of the "raiding" police officers making up "facts" in order to exculpate any liability on the part of the police.

 

[XMil]

I have to say that this is a wee bit un-realistic. Yes your family would sue but there are two inherent problems with that. 1st you are already dead and no amount of money will change that nor will it comfort your friends and family in your absence. 2nd no matter how many trust worthy police officers there are, there are those that will and do lie to cover their asses. Just recently there was an incident out of Virginia I believe in which a small town mayor's house was raided. Afterwhich he overheard one of the "raiding" police officers making up "facts" in order to exculpate any liability on the part of the police.

Yes, the police delivered the package, then waited for someone to come home and pick it up. When someone did, they kicked in the door, shot the dogs, handcuffed the Mayor and his mother-in-law and left them cuffed for several hours while they interrogated them.

"The police chief praised his officers' conduct, insisting that if they had to do it again they'd conduct the Calvo raid the same way. "Our investigators went in and showed both restraint and compassion,""

I'm sure it's just "a few bad apples" who were only doing their jobs.
SWAT Gone Wild in Maryland: A botched raid on a small-town Maryland mayor exposes widespread abuse by the state's SWAT teams. - Reason Magazine

Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

 

[Prometheus]

I am law abiding and there is NO reason for any warrant on my home, let alone a no-knock warrant.

I will defend my family with my life.

I must INSIST that in the middle of the night men screaming (MOSTLY INCOHERENTLY) wearing masks and shining super bright lights is NOT proper identification. In any way shape or form. NO WAY!

In the case of a home invasion I will defend my stairwell. All the bedrooms are upstairs, I must hold the line there.

I'm not going to take the screams of a armed masked man at face value and later, as my wife and daughters are being raped, be wishing I'd have fought back.

Afterwards I can let the DA or jury do the second guessing. My girls lives are worth more than mine. Period.

 

[public servant]

Does anyone have any bacon salt?

 

[inxs]

Yep, a no knock was used up in Vermillion County a few years back. Kinda points up another problem with these blatantly Unconstitutional rampages where they break in shouting and pointing guns at everybody, not letting them tell them that they're at the wrong house. sheriff said they'd fix all the damage though.... wonder how he would have resurrected someone from the dead????

 

[Clay]

It said they knocked............... with a battering ram!