And Another RINO Gone…

[Libertarian01]

After 1930 the Dems controlled the House 58 of the next 62 years and the Senate 52 of those 62. At what point did it teach people the lesson? The Republicans have been back being competitive for the last 30 years. That is partly due to Reagan’s big tent.
“The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally - not a 20 percent traitor.”

I hadn't heard that Reagan quote before. I like it.

Doug

 

[Shadow01]

He's been amazing for conservatives. Delivered tax cuts from the Senate, a SCOTUS that reads and applies law, and has kept his caucus together. The disdain for Mitch is insane.

His “tax cuts” no were near came close to his support for increased spending. Cutting a dollar while spending ten is not being amazing.

 

[BugI02]

I'm going to warn all ya'll right now. Some of you are going down the path that too many stupid Libartarians have gone down. You're starting to effectively enforce "purity" tests. If someone doesn't believe EXACTLY as you want, kick 'em, get rid of them, let them wail and gnash their teeth.

And see how many elections we've won... There are many reasons for our failings, but one of them is not letting people into the party unless they are pure. Won't even talk to them or welcome them in because they don't agree with the "party line" on some stupid issue, so they go away.

If you let perfect get in the way of good or above average you're going to lose - everything.

Here is how Rep Ken Buck voted in 2023: https://ballotpedia.org/Ken_Buck

Now you might not agree with all of his votes, but for those conservatives out here he certainly voted your way on quite a few issues.

And I don't believe his quitting now necessarily hurt the conservative republican party, it hurt Rep Lauren Boebert. As many Colorado republicans have called her a carpet bagger (which she seems to be,) she is now being forced to either give up her 3rd district seat to try to fill the 4th district vacancy OR to wait to run in November. This cripples HER only, NOT the republican party.

Hardcore Trump supporters represent about 33% of the republican party. That means to win general elections you need moderate conservatives AND plain moderates to have any hope of winning at all. The only thing that saves many members from being truly challenged on both the right and the left is gerrymandering, and that practice is slowly but surely being eroded away. This means you need more from the middle to have any hope of winning general elections.

I have come to peace with the thought that I will NEVER be happy with who gets elected from now until the day I die. I'll still vote and consider myself a patriotic citizen, I just won't get anyone I like into office. Hopefully I can stomach them (which is doubtful in many cases.)

But if you don't want to accept what I have accepted, which is fine, then for goodness sake avoid the RINO label. Pick a percentage that is fair and attainable. Be pragmatic. If a candidate is about 60 - 70% or above in agreement with you that's great! If you don't like my percentage that's cool, pick another. But if you try to get near pure at 90% or above (purity)... come join me for a glass of bourbon and a good cigar. I'll be happy to commiserate together.

Regards,

Doug

Respectfully, Doug, there are some issues that cannot - ever! - be compromised on

I and many others are done with compromise that only ever seems to lead toward the end of America as we know it. Your 70 percenters might suffice as long as they demonstrate a knowledge in their bones of which issues are non-negotiable, but those who will compromise on any issue because they lack any goal but personal power and wealth are never going to be accepted. Day in and day out, people in government who claim to be conservative or republican take actions that directly harm America and Americans and it needs to stop

They can certainly think we are all bluster and can safely be ignored if they have a political death wish, but change is coming. FAFO

 

[BugI02]

False. Not true. Not even close.

Boebert is a mess and barely won her seat last time. She decided to move to this seat to increase her chances of winning. Nobody was redistricted.

Buck, like many who think she is an idiot, is preventing her from running for his seat. Boebert's seat went from toss-up to Lean R the second she announced she wasn't running. She is the problem.

Buck is putting R's in a hard spot, though. Boebert is Boerbert First, though, so she may still give up her seat and the Republican majority to run for it.

So how is his personal vendetta in any way helpful to the country as a whole? You are providing top cover for a selfish, immature narcissist who is betraying what he professed to believe in out of personal pique - everything you disingenuously seek to lay at Trump's feet - arguably because you are small picture politically and value the humiliation of someone you dislike as more desirable despite any widespread political harm that brings to Americans in the interim

Given that context, your single-minded disdain for the nominee-elect certainly comes into better focus

And as far as redistricting not being a factor in her fight for re-election, you are spreading misinformation wrong again

3 reasons the latest draft of Colorado’s congressional map may spell trouble for Lauren Boebert

The independent commission charged with redrawing Colorado’s congressional map released its latest draft last week and one of the most eye-popping elements of the proposal is how it draws two disparate incumbents into the same 2nd District: Republican firebrand Lauren Boebert and liberal...

coloradosun.com

 

[HKFaninCarmel]

So how is his personal vendetta in any way helpful to the country as a whole? You are providing top cover for a selfish, immature narcissist who is betraying what he professed to believe in out of personal pique - everything you disingenuously seek to lay at Trump's feet - arguably because you are small picture politically and value the humiliation of someone you dislike as more desirable despite any widespread political harm that brings to Americans in the interim

Given that context, your single-minded disdain for the nominee-elect certainly comes into better focus

And as far as redistricting not being a factor in her fight for re-election, you are spreading misinformation wrong again

3 reasons the latest draft of Colorado’s congressional map may spell trouble for Lauren Boebert

The independent commission charged with redrawing Colorado’s congressional map released its latest draft last week and one of the most eye-popping elements of the proposal is how it draws two disparate incumbents into the same 2nd District: Republican firebrand Lauren Boebert and liberal...

coloradosun.com

Boebert could have easily stayed in her district and sought re-election. She won the district by 546 votes in 2022- a "red wave" election. She knows she paraded around with Gaetz like a moron and was a good theater date, so she will have a hard time winning again. She is CHOOSING to move districts to win. Her seat was a toss-up. After she said she was leaving it, it went Lean R. My disdain is for stupidity. Boebert, is not a smart leader for the party and doesn't belong in Congress. Buck probably has someone else in mind anyways.

I want a better nominee, but it is what it is. Now, I hope he wins. I am not a cult follower, so if he does dumb stuff, I am not going to pretend or go with the wind as it was said.

 

[indyjs]

If Bidem and the Dems are elected, the proposed budget for 2025 is 7.3 Trillion. Some will see extreme pain and some will be seeing Santa Claus. No real increase in military - which we just give away anyway

 

[BugI02]

View attachment 339748

Boebert could have easily stayed in her district and sought re-election. She won the district by 546 votes in 2022- a "red wave" election. She knows she paraded around with Gaetz like a moron and was a good theater date, so she will have a hard time winning again. She is CHOOSING to move districts to win. Her seat was a toss-up. After she said she was leaving it, it went Lean R. My disdain is for stupidity. Boebert, is not a smart leader for the party and doesn't belong in Congress. Buck probably has someone else in mind anyways.

I want a better nominee, but it is what it is. Now, I hope he wins. I am not a cult follower, so if he does dumb stuff, I am not going to pretend or go with the wind as it was said. [for some 'muh principles' are indistinguishable from the vapors anymore - they can be an excuse for any sort of destructive to America behavior]

You should actually read that article about the changes proposed to Boebert's district. The map adopted a couple of month's later was almost identical, except it cut of more of the outlying, republican friendly counties. Pay attention to the part where the new district was modeled to be friendly to a democrat by 22 points

And I fail to see why you think your personal distaste for Boebert (and Gaetz) should mean that the people of Colorado cannot choose who they want to represent them, unless you secretly live in Colorado's 3rd district

Your distaste for certain politicians seems more and more to be driven by feels and not results

 

[HKFaninCarmel]

Your distaste for certain politicians seems more and more to be driven by feels and not results

I'm not sure what 'results' I am looking past.

I've shown the kind of folks I appreciate and the results they have delivered—DeSantis, Kemp, Reynolds, etc.

The emotional outbursts here are by people who proclaim to know all the answers and have an undying love for the orange man.

 

[Ingomike]

Hardcore Trump supporters represent about 33% of the republican party.

A good post, but I do believe that number is low based on primary voting results, particularly if NH results in open states are adjusted for democrat participation in the republican primaries.

 

[Ingomike]

come join me for a glass of bourbon and a good cigar. I'll be happy to commiserate together.

Best offer I have had all day!

 

[Ingomike]

A few elections under full D control might just wake people up.

If it were plausible there would be a country after this it might work, but the dems are intentionally driving us into the ditch and even if people wake up it will be to late…

 

[Libertarian01]

Respectfully, Doug, there are some issues that cannot - ever! - be compromised on

I and many others are done with compromise that only ever seems to lead toward the end of America as we know it. Your 70 percenters might suffice as long as they demonstrate a knowledge in their bones of which issues are non-negotiable, but those who will compromise on any issue because they lack any goal but personal power and wealth are never going to be accepted. Day in and day out, people in government who claim to be conservative or republican take actions that directly harm America and Americans and it needs to stop

They can certainly think we are all bluster and can safely be ignored if they have a political death wish, but change is coming. FAFO

There are certainly some issues that should not be compromised on. I agree 100%, but NOT EVERY issue! This isn't religious doctrine.

Plus, you have to be able to read which way the wind is blowing. IF the wind is blowing in the exact opposite direction you want it to then you have two (2) realistic choices. #1) Fight it - and lose, or #2) Do what you can to mitigate the damage until the winds blow in a more favorable direction.

How many hills are you truly wanting to die on? Truly!?! Gun control? Abortion? Fiscal Responsibility? Law & order? Education? Transgenderism? Qualified immunity? FOIA enforcement? Drug law(s)? Banking reform? Health care? Etc etc etc. In each and every one of these the devil is in the details. In ALL of these there are minutia that can be haggled over. Gun control could mean anything from red flag laws to bans. The "budget" is even worse! Way too many details there to say that some degree of compromise couldn't be reached.

And then in many of these issues how the heck do you measure it? By whose standards?

I picture governance as much like going through arbitration. Neither side comes out truly happy but each side gets some things that they can live with. And if someone truly doesn't like it then vote NO and move on.

I also like to remind people that most folks who disagree with them have honest, if misdirected, motives. A few folks on both sides have very self centered and malicious motivations but the average person does not.

The republican party has been built by people like Rep Buck and others who could get some things done. The "purer" you want the party to be the less power and influence it will have. Now this is no skin off my butt as I hope some of the fiscally conservative folks wander over to the Libertarian camp. It's a republican crisis.

Rep Johnson was stupid for not demanding that they get rid of that stupid rule that just one (1) person can cause him to be ousted. But hey, not my problem.

Regards,

Doug

 

[BugI02]

How many hills are you truly wanting to die on? Truly!?! Gun control? Abortion? Fiscal Responsibility? Law & order? Education? Transgenderism? Qualified immunity? FOIA enforcement? Drug law(s)? Banking reform? Health care? Etc etc etc. In each and every one of these the devil is in the details.

The devil got into the details on virtually all those issues by past compromises with progressives

As Einstein (supposedly) said: 'We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used to create them.'

 

[Shadow01]

If it were plausible there would be a country after this it might work, but the dems are intentionally driving us into the ditch and even if people wake up it will be to late…

Maybe we deserve it as a nation.

 

[Ingomike]

Maybe we deserve it as a nation.

We very well may. Not that you and I plus others that want a constitutional country deserve it.

 

[Tombs]

I'm going to warn all ya'll right now. Some of you are going down the path that too many stupid Libartarians have gone down. You're starting to effectively enforce "purity" tests. If someone doesn't believe EXACTLY as you want, kick 'em, get rid of them, let them wail and gnash their teeth.

And see how many elections we've won... There are many reasons for our failings, but one of them is not letting people into the party unless they are pure. Won't even talk to them or welcome them in because they don't agree with the "party line" on some stupid issue, so they go away.

If you let perfect get in the way of good or above average you're going to lose - everything.

Here is how Rep Ken Buck voted in 2023: https://ballotpedia.org/Ken_Buck

Now you might not agree with all of his votes, but for those conservatives out here he certainly voted your way on quite a few issues.

And I don't believe his quitting now necessarily hurt the conservative republican party, it hurt Rep Lauren Boebert. As many Colorado republicans have called her a carpet bagger (which she seems to be,) she is now being forced to either give up her 3rd district seat to try to fill the 4th district vacancy OR to wait to run in November. This cripples HER only, NOT the republican party.

Hardcore Trump supporters represent about 33% of the republican party. That means to win general elections you need moderate conservatives AND plain moderates to have any hope of winning at all. The only thing that saves many members from being truly challenged on both the right and the left is gerrymandering, and that practice is slowly but surely being eroded away. This means you need more from the middle to have any hope of winning general elections.

I have come to peace with the thought that I will NEVER be happy with who gets elected from now until the day I die. I'll still vote and consider myself a patriotic citizen, I just won't get anyone I like into office. Hopefully I can stomach them (which is doubtful in many cases.)

But if you don't want to accept what I have accepted, which is fine, then for goodness sake avoid the RINO label. Pick a percentage that is fair and attainable. Be pragmatic. If a candidate is about 60 - 70% or above in agreement with you that's great! If you don't like my percentage that's cool, pick another. But if you try to get near pure at 90% or above (purity)... come join me for a glass of bourbon and a good cigar. I'll be happy to commiserate together.

Regards,

Doug

Capitulation got us here.

Winning elections is not enough to turn the ship around, it requires people who pledge themselves against the system, and for this country first and foremost.

That is the pragmatic path, unless you're hastening the day the shooting starts. If you're blindly pulling levers, and advocating go-along-to-get-along, you are hastening that day whether you understand it or not.

 

[Cynical]

In the short term, it will definitely narrow their majority. It looks likely a R will replace him in the district, so the long term damage may be nil.

Unless we get another poser like him.

 

[Libertarian01]

Capitulation got us here.

Winning elections is not enough to turn the ship around, it requires people who pledge themselves against the system, and for this country first and foremost.

That is the pragmatic path, unless you're hastening the day the shooting starts. If you're blindly pulling levers, and advocating go-along-to-get-along, you are hastening that day whether you understand it or not.

Winning elections is the core requirement to making any change. All I'm saying is if you drive all the "RINO'S" out then you'll be left with nothing but the other side taking the entire field. But hey, you'll have your purity and that's all you'll have.

Run your purity drive at your own peril.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Tombs]

Winning elections is the core requirement to making any change. All I'm saying is if you drive all the "RINO'S" out then you'll be left with nothing but the other side taking the entire field. But hey, you'll have your purity and that's all you'll have.

Run your purity drive at your own peril.

Regards,

Doug

Winning with people who oppose your values is not winning. It's only hastening the day towards things going to the 4th box.

It isn't a purity spiral to say conservatives need to actually stand for something beyond the DNC platform. The likes of McConnell, McCain, Romney, etc are why we are in this mess, and the sooner we run these types out of the party, the sooner we have a chance at averting disaster.

 

[INPatriot]

Multiple posts on multiple sides of this issue make really good points.

Conservatives are over the barrel no matter what. An alliance with Establishment GOP is needed to prevent communist takeover.

Establishment GOP only plays when they feel they have the upper hand. When the feel they lose the upper hand, they walk away.

Regarding purity tests: I agree conservatives could teach a masterclass on making purity tests a circular firing squad.

I'd also offer up that relenting to the establishment gave everyone Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney.

So is it the slow slide of go along to get along or the bloody fingernails of grasping onto a majority that doesn't really exist?

No matter how much his mouth and feelings can get in the way, Trump was the watershed politician, whose actions, for the most part, counteracted the slow slide in a way no figure has in my adult lifetime.

He interrupted the apple cart for many. They've chosen to take their ball and go home.

It may hurt in the short term. In the long term, the shenanigans of the UniParty have been exposed.