All Broad Ripple a Gun Free Zone Legality??

[BigRed]

In the news briefing following two killed and two wounded, Boss Hogsett declared he would permanently make all of Broad Ripple a "Gun Free Zone". That includes the streets, sidewalks, public parking. Everything. The entire village. Complete with body scanners like one finds at court buildings and airports. To be enforced by armed IMPD. Has he not read NYSRPA v Bruen yet?

joe hog**** is a mucking foron and less useful than a pile of cow manure.

You can ask him yourself if he knows how to read.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Once again the leftists overplay their hand. BR is a municipality, part of Indianapolis. It has public streets, Friday and Saturday are not special events.

The constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense is not “a second-class right, subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees.”--SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas in the majority opinion of NYSRPA v Bruen 2022.

 

[BigRed]

Maybe they should run the hookers and drug dealers out of "Connor's Pub" and "Lava"...not that I give a flying ****.

Private businesses can run their shop however they want.....I have ZERO interest in having a dime confiscated from me by the state mafia to protect them.

 

[breakingcontact]

BVA will ask for a special event permit. It will be granted. And BR will be a GFZ next weekend. Rinse, repeat.

What is the special event?

This is what they said they were aiming for at the news conference today.

Don't worry, he respects gun rights though.

 

[eric001]

On one hand, I sincerely hope the petty dictator hereby known as Hog-**** goes forward and ignores legality in BR... Opens the city up to a crap ton of lawsuits based on his illegal actions. SHOULD be slam dunks, though I'm thinking the legal wrangling over 'public entity' and 'private ownership' by way of special permit could be tricky.

On the other hand, I think this is a truly terrible idea, since sadly I live in Indy and don't want to see an insane amount of tax hikes and new 'fees' within the city to pay for all the lost lawsuits.

Either way, I have to agree with Big Red in his assessment of Boss Hog-****.


Side note: I would dearly LOVE to see our state supreme court find such permits to make public land/facilities "owned" by a supposed "private" entity on a temporary basis to be null and void as a gimmick for bypassing state law.

I know, I know... **** in one hand and wish in the other, see which fills up first.

 

[LEaSH]

The monon trail is sort of a highway through the place.

Don't see them keeping me unarmed through there.

Interesting concept, but doubtful.

I ride and carry all around this ****** city.

 

[BigRed]

I will simply note hog**** can got to Hell as far as I care.

YMMV

 

[Denny347]

So that means BRVA gets the bill for ALL EMS/Fire/Police staff that are operating in the village, right? IF its their party, then they are responsible for footing the bill for those services.

The 500 doesn't pay a penny towards the OT spent on securing the Parade, Carb Day, or the Race....so NO, it doesn't work like that.

 

[JAL]

Once again the leftists overplay their hand. BR is a municipality, part of Indianapolis. It has public streets, Friday and Saturday are not special events.

The constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense is not “a second-class right, subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees.”--SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas in the majority opinion of NYSRPA v Bruen 2022.

Carnac the Magnificent has predicted Guy Relford filing at least one lawsuit against the city in the very near future, if not several.

 

[Leo]

About the people that are the problem are those that just hang around and are not patrons, what brings them there?

Are they amateur pharmaceutical sales reps? Maybe freelance sex therapists?

 

[MinuteManMike]

There was a time when anything north of say, 46th St. or so was considered fairly safe in that area. The 38th St. cancer has been spreading both to the north and the south. Indeed, there has been a metastasis of the whole Center Township cancer in all directions.

Must have been a LONG time ago.

My brother moved to BR in 2004 and was promptly burglarized. Police said thugs worked the whole BR / Kessler area hard because it's close to their hoods and easy to get in / out of with loot.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Aside from who foots the bill for all of this showmanship, I’m always baffled that anyone would ever think that the same people willing to violate the laws against… I don’t know, say, MURDER would actually care about a law (or an ordinance contravening the actual law) that says that you can’t carry a gun in a certain place.

Forget the legalities for a moment and just focus on the practical aspects… there are actually people who think that makes sense?!

No, nobody thinks that. If anybody actually thought that there wouldn't be penalties attached for violating laws. Given that there are penalties, it's logical that the people who write laws understand some people will violate them and have answered the question "then what?"

Murder laws don't stop all murders. What they do is allow you to segregate murderers from society afterward or legally stop them ahead of time if possible. If murder were legal, what do you do with someone who murders? Someone who is planning to murder? Someone who is about to murder someone else? Right. The legal framework *implicitly understands people will continue to murder* but sets out the rules by which you can prevent it if possible and punish it afterward if not.

So mischaracterizing the argument in this fashion or simply assuming everyone who disagrees with you as an idiot does gun owners no favors. What they *actually* think is that you can stop people with guns from entering by turning them away or arresting them. The argument, besides the obvious pre-emption issues, is how feckless it is given how easy to bypass it will be. The hard core on either side won't care, but the middle grounders who may welcome a visit from the good idea fairy are more likely to buy reality than "Criminals don't follow the law so laws are useless" argument.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

About the people that are the problem are those that just hang around and are not patrons, what brings them there?

Are they amateur pharmaceutical sales reps? Maybe freelance sex therapists?

You're asking why people go hang out where young drunk women congregate?

 

[K_W]

There was a time when anything north of say, 46th St. or so was considered fairly safe in that area. The 38th St. cancer has been spreading both to the north and the south. Indeed, there has been a metastasis of the whole Center Township cancer in all directions.

I grew up in Broad Ripple from 84-96. Until the sun set, anything north of 42nd was freely walkable. Broad Ripple got rowdy from Butler kids but was managed well.

Now I would not walk anywhere in Broad Ripple after sunset, even Merdian Kessler.

 

[Ark]

The monon trail is sort of a highway through the place.

Don't see them keeping me unarmed through there.

Interesting concept, but doubtful.

I ride and carry all around this ****** city.

I ride all over a pretty big swath of the city. Never unarmed, ever.

 

[profjeremy]

No, nobody thinks that. If anybody actually thought that there wouldn't be penalties attached for violating laws. Given that there are penalties, it's logical that the people who write laws understand some people will violate them and have answered the question "then what?"

Murder laws don't stop all murders. What they do is allow you to segregate murderers from society afterward or legally stop them ahead of time if possible. If murder were legal, what do you do with someone who murders? Someone who is planning to murder? Someone who is about to murder someone else? Right. The legal framework *implicitly understands people will continue to murder* but sets out the rules by which you can prevent it if possible and punish it afterward if not.

So mischaracterizing the argument in this fashion or simply assuming everyone who disagrees with you as an idiot does gun owners no favors. What they *actually* think is that you can stop people with guns from entering by turning them away or arresting them. The argument, besides the obvious pre-emption issues, is how feckless it is given how easy to bypass it will be. The hard core on either side won't care, but the middle grounders who may welcome a visit from the good idea fairy are more likely to buy reality than "Criminals don't follow the law so laws are useless" argument.

You make some good points and I actually agree with most of what you’ve said, but I think you’ve ignored that most people who push for such laws (such as the BR business owners, in this case) do actually think that this would be a deterrent, in addition to perhaps naively believing universal enforcement could somehow be possible. Every politician I’ve ever heard talk about gun control speaks of it as a deterrent… the point I was making is that it really isn’t. I don’t think I’m really mischaracterizing that being a large part of the public messaging, regardless of the thought process of lawmakers.

I’m also not exactly saying that “criminals don’t follow the law, so laws are useless“ as much as it being a joke to outlaw something that is explicitly legal because we’re trying to get people to obey a different law. We all know that the only ones that will obey the “gun free zones” are the lawfully armed citizens who aren’t going to commit a crime anyway and might possibly even serve as a deterrent for the criminals. Won’t be any of those in a “gun free zone”, but I bet there will still be some guns!

 

[Sigblitz]

outlaw something that is explicitly legal because we’re trying to get people to obey a different law

Meyor said he doesn't want guns, chief said he doesn't want constitution carry, assistant chief said he thinks constitutional rights shouldn't be permanent. These are your city leaders. So I'm not surprised.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You make some good points and I actually agree with most of what you’ve said, but I think you’ve ignored that most people who push for such laws (such as the BR business owners, in this case) do actually think that this would be a deterrent, in addition to perhaps naively believing universal enforcement could somehow be possible. Every politician I’ve ever heard talk about gun control speaks of it as a deterrent… the point I was making is that it really isn’t. I don’t think I’m really mischaracterizing that being a large part of the public messaging, regardless of the thought process of lawmakers.

I’m also not exactly saying that “criminals don’t follow the law, so laws are useless“ as much as it being a joke to outlaw something that is explicitly legal because we’re trying to get people to obey a different law. We all know that the only ones that will obey the “gun free zones” are the lawfully armed citizens who aren’t going to commit a crime anyway and might possibly even serve as a deterrent for the criminals. Won’t be any of those in a “gun free zone”, but I bet there will still be some guns!

It would be some level of deterrent. How effective and wide spread it would be is another question, even if we were to entertain that it's "worth it" just for the sake of argument. Some people who may otherwise cause trouble may just stay home or go elsewhere, which is a win as far as BR owners are concerned. We've seen the pushing crime around effect when Circle Center started getting a lot of enforcement and attention, Castleton Square started having issues, for example.

Others may decide it's not worth the bother to carry. Others will push the envelope and attempt to smuggle guns in. Some will get caught. Others won't.

I would not begin to hazard a guess what the levels of each would be even if it were to come to fruition, and again am not arguing for this thing to take place, simply speaking in generality.

 

[actaeon277]

malum in se

malum prohibitum

 

[thompal]

In the news briefing following two killed and two wounded, Boss Hogsett declared he would permanently make all of Broad Ripple a "Gun Free Zone". That includes the streets, sidewalks, public parking. Everything. The entire village. Complete with body scanners like one finds at court buildings and airports. To be enforced by armed IMPD. Has he not read NYSRPA v Bruen yet?

If you remember, in the conversation about the park being leased so it could be made "gun free," I predicted that if it wasn't challenged, Boss Hogg would try leasing all sidewalks to a government front.