Active shooter situation at school in Parkland, FL; reports of victims

[jedi]

"Working with them" got us multiple federal gun control acts, and thousands of state/local laws.
It never stops them.
Only encourages.


As for suggestions, I've seen several here.
Go back to stressing importance of families.
Teach discipline/responsibility.


As for "not enough money" in schools.
Well, maybe that's cause we blow all our tax money on everything else.

The responsiblity angle is not going to work.
That is counter to the "new slavery" of this century.

 

[churchmouse]

As a country, we DON'T have a 'gun' problem... We have a mental health problem that's been exacerbated by a generation that's refused to parent, refused to do anything remotely close to disciplining a child, and refused to teach children how to act like respectable young men and women.

You can't spank a child or you go to jail, hurt their feelings you go to jail... Did anyone ever consider that sparing the rod and spoiling the child is a biblical-level mistake?

Additionally, no one ever wants to ban cars when some terrorist drives onto a crowded boardwalk, or steak knives when someone attacks police with a knife. However, if a gun is even remotely related to an incident - it's the 'GUN's' fault!

I have never EVER heard of a gun lifting itself off of a table, flying around the room and attacking people.

It amazes me the number of folks who are more scared of the inanimate object than the psycho that's holding it. Until these people wake up and smell the coffee, I'm of the mindset that I'm not going to budge one millimeter in giving away and more of my rights or freedoms because folks don't want to put on their big girl panties and realize they caused this mental health problem.

Step back and look at where these fears are coming from. Take a minute. It will be crystal clear in a few moments.

Times up. Yes, Our own elected officials on a steadfast end run to disarm us. A complicit media handing out copious amounts of the and the weak of mind slurping it up becoming a hive mind. The schools indoctrinating the kids. I know this to be true. My 11 year old G-daughter and her sisters spend a lot of time with me. She is going to attend Revere's riders. She also knows to keep it to herself to not be a target at school.
This is coming at us from all sides.

 

[Birds Away]

Step back and look at where these fears are coming from. Take a minute. It will be crystal clear in a few moments.

Times up. Yes, Our own elected officials on a steadfast end run to disarm us. A complicit media handing out copious amounts of the and the weak of mind slurping it up becoming a hive mind. The schools indoctrinating the kids. I know this to be true. My 11 year old G-daughter and her sisters spend a lot of time with me. She is going to attend Revere's riders. She also knows to keep it to herself to not be a target at school.
This is coming at us from all sides.

I watched a little of CNN yesterday. Wolf was preaching from the pulpit and his guests were all saying "hallelujah".

 

[churchmouse]

I watched a little of CNN yesterday. Wolf was preaching from the pulpit and his guests were all saying "hallelujah".

Wolfe is a 4'8" tall douche bag. 5' maybe but he is diminutive. Wolfe Blitzer.....

 

[Birds Away]

Wolfe is a 4'8" tall douche bag. 5' maybe but he is diminutive. Wolfe Blitzer.....

To me he is in the same category as huckster televangelists.

 

[churchmouse]

To me he is in the same category as huckster televangelists.

He is. Spouting his gibberish. Mostly ill conceived propaganda.

 

[Joniki]

Florida senator Bill Nelson says automatic weapons like the AR15 need to be banned.

He also thinks individuals with a history of mental illness should not be allowed to possess a gun.... DONE!

 

[jamil]

Today Show, Savannah asks a little girl about how her friend that was shot is doing... she didn't make it, followed by tears... several seconds of awkward silence... you would think a producer would have checked on that before it being asked on TV.

Yeah. But genuine tears shed on national TV! What self respecting “journalist” would pass that up?

 

[Birds Away]

He is. Spouting his gibberish. Mostly ill conceived propaganda.

The MSM believes we are all idiots and need to be spoon fed information tailored to their agenda. They think they must tell everyone what to think and how to react.

 

[churchmouse]

The MSM believes we are all idiots and need to be spoon fed information tailored to their agenda. They think they must tell everyone what to think and how to react.

Birds.....they are correct in the fact that the idiots numbers are legion. We are about to be overtaken in numbers by them.
The serious conversations I have had with my 35 year old son and his friends convince me we are done. They are not gun grabbers but the mind set is scary. Seriously scary.

 

[Woobie]

Yeah. But genuine tears shed on national TV! What self respecting “journalist” would pass that up?

I find your choice of the phrase "self-respecting" amusing.

 

[BigRed]

The responsiblity angle is not going to work.
That is counter to the "new slavery" of this century.

Well said, Sir.

 

[thunderchicken]

Avec- I think a big key factor in trying to tackle this problem revolves around mental health and what we as a society are willing to allow. Obama wanted to put anyone on social security on a list that would prevent them from buying/owning a gun. Obviously that went WAY too far. I am sure some group somewhere has studied these events and could probably group together a handful of mental health characteristics that have been common among these attackers. IF we could come up with a way of putting people who struggle with mental health issues (that are potentially dangerous/ threatening etc) on a list..NOT A NO SELL LIST, but a hold pending a pysch evaluation that might help in identifying people who could be "mentally defective". Also, we need to find a way to better regulate meds being pushed on our kids. I really believe there is some connection, some people if given the wrong meds can create a situation in which an individual can become violent and subdue their feelings. I have seen that firsthand.

As for any willingness to compromise and even talk about giving up any more rights is ridiculous. The anti-gunners aren't willing to make compromises and we as a pro gun community need to stand our ground and fight to retain our rights as we are not the problem.
We need to find ways to get the real, unskewed FACTS out in the media to the masses and debunk their talking points that are being pushed in MSM. At the same time we need to do more to educate people about guns and the gun culture.
Now, I do not intend to be offensive when I say this. But we could learn a little from those in the LGBT community. And that would be to adopt the attitude that seems to surround their movement, which to me seems to be one of...if you aren't with us you're against us.
We need to not stand in the shadows and be silent, we must be heard.
I don't know any better than anyone how to prevent another attack like this. But I do know "just do something" isn't a solution

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...kland-florida-high-school-shooting/340071002/

Reported that he had been receiving treatment for mental health issues, but hadn't been seen in more than a year. Same article said he passed a background check for the gun within the past year. There's your problem right there.

Sounds like no one who knew him are shocked this happened. School even told teachers not to let him on campus with a backpack. That's oddly specific. Fear of planting a bomb maybe?

Everyone is going to rush to the gun, but it's clear that all the signs were there. Someone missed reporting his mental health issues, and clearly the school went no further than warning teachers.

 

[Avec]

It looks like most here are going with sticking fingers in your ears and hoping the problem goes away.

Columbine - "Lalalalalalala - can't hear you"
Sandy Hook - "Lalalalalala - still can't hear you"

and on down the list

Just saying, that the 2018 mid terms are set to be a blood bath for republicans. You may want to be part of the solution or continue to be seen as part of the problem. Gun control laws WILL be inacted, and they WILL be upheld based on Heller - Don't misconstrue Heller as a sweeping claim for the 2nd ammendment rights. Even the majority opinion went to great lengths to include that the right keep and bear arms is not absolute, and gun ownership should be considered for the main purpose of home defense.

There are reasonable measures that reasonable people can discuss. There are also measures that can be reasonably pointed out have no discernible positive outcome such as banning a class of weapons based on 'it looks scary'.

Maybe there should be a significant tax on various ammunition. Maybe we should let mental health professionals report problemed people with guns to the local police?

 

[Benp]

If the punishment was swift and severe then this could help deter others from thinking that it's a good idea to go on shooting sprees.

 

[Avec]

Reported that he had been receiving treatment for mental health issues, but hadn't been seen in more than a year. Same article said he passed a background check for the gun within the past year. There's your problem right there.

Sounds like no one who knew him are shocked this happened. School even told teachers not to let him on campus with a backpack. That's oddly specific. Fear of planting a bomb maybe?

Everyone is going to rush to the gun, but it's clear that all the signs were there. Someone missed reporting his mental health issues, and clearly the school went no further than warning teachers.

Even if reported, his guns could not have been confiscated. The "see something, say something" is a dead end. Up until he walked onto the school campus, he had done everything according to the current laws of the state of Florida.

 

[churchmouse]

If the punishment was swift and severe then this could help deter others from thinking that it's a good idea to go on shooting sprees.

Most off themselves or get put down when they resist.

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

Even if reported, his guns could not have been confiscated. The "see something, say something" is a dead end. Up until he walked onto the school campus, he had done everything according to the current laws of the state of Florida.

Unless the timeline is off on the reporting, it would appear that he recieved treatment before purchasing the gun. It is likely he never should have passed the background check, is what I'm saying.

 

[jamil]

To those arguing there just need to be more security guards, 2 point - 1. Schools are already strapped to the point of laying off teachers, and in some districts going to 4 day weeks to save money. They don't have the money to educate now, and certainly don't have the funds to hire additional staff. Schools are the first to take the hit when states decide they need to cut taxes to the bone. Look at Kansas and Oklahoma as examples. 2. Many of the places that these shootings take place already have security or police presence. Virginia Tech has its own campus security - 33 dead. The concert outside Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas had security and on-duty police - 59 dead.

Many on this site are quick to say "here come the libs wanting to bane guns", but dont offer any solutions. We, and the Supreme Court know that gun ownership in America is not absolute. You may want to argue it should be, but instead of an AR-15 this kid in FLA had, would you rather he had a rocket propelled grenade? (rhetorical questions). It is time for the gun owners of America to offer legitimate solutions, not the gut reaction "they're coming for my guns". We are presumably smart people. We need to be part of the solution, or a solution we will hate will be the result. There will be a legislation in the next 5 years to address this - guaranteed. If you want gun owners to have a seat at the discussion table, we better start now. If we keep shouting "gun grab" and walk away, then it will be a gun grab, and we lost our chance to moderate the legislation.

It seems that many of us have friend or relative that either died or knows someone that died in Viet Nam - almost 60,000 American lives lost in the decade of conflict there. More Americans will die in gun violence in the next two years that died in Viet Nam in 10.

Okay. What’s your solution? Describe your proposal. Make your case for it. How will it stop mass shootings? Start with that. Then we’ll have something to discuss. The only discussion you’ll get posting this herp derp is scorn.

I’ll offer a solution. Fix yourself and help those around you be better fathers, mothers, teachers, students, friends, citizens. Seek to answer, not what laws can we throw at a problem so we can feel like we did something, but why. I’ve spent a career fixing things. To fix it so it stays fixed you have to know why it broke.

Why did this kid do this? If you can’t fix that, it doesn’t matter what laws you pass. It doesn’t matter what you compromise away to dogmatic, ideologues who are trying to fix a different problem. These people are trying to fix the ideological problem of allowing citizens to possess weapons. The problem is not the guns. The problem is that a small subset of people are really ****ed up.