Accuracy of rimfires: Bolt vs 10/22

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    Grandmaster
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    Jan 21, 2008
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    :popcorn:

    I shoot 100 yard NRA smallbore prone using a tricked out 10/22 & a M1 Garand military sling. I have lofty goals of beating the other shooters with their $5k+ fancy bolt guns. I've not won a match yet but I'm close.

    After saying all that, my all stock Browning T-bolt is nearly as accurate as my fancy 10/22. :spend:
     

    Colt556

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    I have never shot in any kind of competition but I like to shoot accurate guns. I’ve shot 10/22s, 94/22s, 39A/Ms and numerous bolt guns. I have no trouble hitting steel at 100 yards with my 39A but honestly I love shooting the smallest groups possible, for me, with my bolt actions. I have “a few” but my favorites are the CZs, Remington 541T and Winchester 75. I’d like an Anschutz or Cooper but my CZs are probably all I need and are a fraction of the cost. I love the 452 Varmints and a 452 FS. I’ve tried various ammo but for my abilities plain old CCI SV and Federal AutoMatch work ok in both my rifles and Smith 41. I lucked into one of those fancy Russian Target rifles at the 1500 about 8-9 years ago but I’ve never had a chance to shoot it. Also picked up a Norinco 98K 22 Trainer clone, very nice rifle too. Looking for. 453 Varmint but those are really hard to find. I always seem to go back the the 452s. Nothing fancy but jist nice rifles. What I really need is a decent place to shoot the things in peace!
     

    TJ Kackowski

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    What I really need is a decent place to shoot the things in peace!
    Have you tried Crawfordsville Gun Club? The place is usually a ghost town. They have both a 50 yd. rimfire only range and a 100 yd. rifle range with permanent benches. They even have a portable bench at each range if you want to shoot closer to the back stop. No steel targets allowed.

    Next Sunday, 11 April, there is a Board meeting starting at 9:00 AM. The gate will be open. Come check it out. You can even join that day and start shooting. Cost is currently $45 / year.

    Here's the GPS coordinates ... 40.08691315493391, -86.8157897290020

    And street address ... 3225 SR 47 N, Crawfordsville, IN 47933
     

    Colt556

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    Have you tried Crawfordsville Gun Club? The place is usually a ghost town. They have both a 50 yd. rimfire only range and a 100 yd. rifle range with permanent benches. They even have a portable bench at each range if you want to shoot closer to the back stop. No steel targets allowed.

    Next Sunday, 11 April, there is a Board meeting starting at 9:00 AM. The gate will be open. Come check it out. You can even join that day and start shooting. Cost is currently $45 / year.

    Here's the GPS coordinates ... 40.08691315493391, -86.8157897290020

    And street address ... 3225 SR 47 N, Crawfordsville, IN 47933
    That’s a bit of a drive from Avon but I might check it out. Don’t imagine I’ll be able to shoot very often with the current ammo situation anyway. Thank you for the info.
     

    1nderbeard

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    That’s a bit of a drive from Avon but I might check it out. Don’t imagine I’ll be able to shoot very often with the current ammo situation anyway. Thank you for the info.
    Might also try the DNR range at Putnamville - Deer Creek. That's been my go to spot for rifle shooting the last few years. About 45 min from my house in Avon.

    100 yard lanes and 50 yard lanes with nice wooden bench rests. The facility is only about 5 years old.
     

    TJ Kackowski

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    That’s a bit of a drive from Avon but I might check it out. Don’t imagine I’ll be able to shoot very often with the current ammo situation anyway. Thank you for the info.

    If you want to be left alone to shoot in peace, then you gotta go where there ain't no people ... or very few in the case of CGC. I drive there from Brownsburg, about 1/2 hr. drive time. Plus, you can't beat the membership price.

    Tactical Weapons & Supply (2303 Indianapolis Rd, Crawfordsville, IN 47933) has started to receive regular shipments of ammo, and their prices aren't outrageous given the current environment. Stop here first before proceeding to the range. If by chance you want to sell some of your firearms, they're paying top dollar or will work with you on consignment.

    Might also try the DNR range at Putnamville - Deer Creek. That's been my go to spot for rifle shooting the last few years. About 45 min from my house in Avon.

    100 yard lanes and 50 yard lanes with nice wooden bench rests. The facility is only about 5 years old.

    This sounds interesting. I'm going to have to check out this place. Can you set up your own steel or is it paper targets only? RSO on the line at all times?
     

    gregkl

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    If you want to be left alone to shoot in peace, then you gotta go where there ain't no people ... or very few in the case of CGC. I drive there from Brownsburg, about 1/2 hr. drive time. Plus, you can't beat the membership price.

    Tactical Weapons & Supply (2303 Indianapolis Rd, Crawfordsville, IN 47933) has started to receive regular shipments of ammo, and their prices aren't outrageous given the current environment. Stop here first before proceeding to the range. If by chance you want to sell some of your firearms, they're paying top dollar or will work with you on consignment.



    This sounds interesting. I'm going to have to check out this place. Can you set up your own steel or is it paper targets only? RSO on the line at all times?
    When I worked in C'ville, I would go there on my lunch hour. Virtually no one was there. Not much of a range, but adequate enough to do what you need to do.

    For the price, it's a steal!
     

    1nderbeard

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    This sounds interesting. I'm going to have to check out this place. Can you set up your own steel or is it paper targets only? RSO on the line at all times?
    Just paper. It's DNR run, so I wouldn't say an RSO is on the line at all times, but there is always DNR staff on the line or watching from a windowed office. There are regularly called cease fires.
     

    Hookeye

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    I tried a variety in my 10/22.
    Green Mountain bbl, Titan stock, Volq hammer.
    After 300 rounds it still didn't like Super X HP or reg, Blazer, CCI std V or Minimag. Rem, Aguila, PMC and a couple others.

    They weren't horrible, but were close to an inch at 50 yards.
    Which looks horrible, at 12X LMAO.

    SK rifle match got 5 into .4. Repeatably.

    I was happy with my half incher for under $500 (not counting scope).

    But it was heavy (19" Heavy Taper bbl) and the grip was too vertical for my liking.

    Heard good things about the CZ 455, so got one. Yay, a sporter to hunt with.
    Couple hundred shots and Blazer is .75" at 50 yards. Am out of SK rifle match.
    Did have some earlier, and at 25 yards it shot the best in the bone stock CZ.

    Overall, I am NOT impressed w the CZ455 and wished my beater 10/22 with fingergroove stock ('70 sporter) would have been tolerable. It sucked bad, like Imp Cyl choke tube bad.

    And nobody had GM 20" sporter bbls to swap in.

    Disgusted, I sold it (broke even) and swapped out my wood CZ stock for plastic.
    Its my one and only .22 rifle now and thats fine w me.

    Just gonna be a piney slayer. At best.

    Scoped an Anschutz Exemplar and that shot well, but was about as big as my rifle, and actually not as handy. So may have to sell it.

    Buckmark Target 5.5 w reflex and my CZ455..........covers my .22 rimfire needs.
     

    Colt556

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    I tried a variety in my 10/22.
    Green Mountain bbl, Titan stock, Volq hammer.
    After 300 rounds it still didn't like Super X HP or reg, Blazer, CCI std V or Minimag. Rem, Aguila, PMC and a couple others.

    They weren't horrible, but were close to an inch at 50 yards.
    Which looks horrible, at 12X LMAO.

    SK rifle match got 5 into .4. Repeatably.

    I was happy with my half incher for under $500 (not counting scope).

    But it was heavy (19" Heavy Taper bbl) and the grip was too vertical for my liking.

    Heard good things about the CZ 455, so got one. Yay, a sporter to hunt with.
    Couple hundred shots and Blazer is .75" at 50 yards. Am out of SK rifle match.
    Did have some earlier, and at 25 yards it shot the best in the bone stock CZ.

    Overall, I am NOT impressed w the CZ455 and wished my beater 10/22 with fingergroove stock ('70 sporter) would have been tolerable. It sucked bad, like Imp Cyl choke tube bad.

    And nobody had GM 20" sporter bbls to swap in.

    Disgusted, I sold it (broke even) and swapped out my wood CZ stock for plastic.
    Its my one and only .22 rifle now and thats fine w me.

    Just gonna be a piney slayer. At best.

    Scoped an Anschutz Exemplar and that shot well, but was about as big as my rifle, and actually not as handy. So may have to sell it.

    Buckmark Target 5.5 w reflex and my CZ455..........covers my .22 rimfire needs.
    I have several CZ 452s and a 455. The 452s are great shooters once you find the ammo they like. I use mostly CCI SV and Federal Auto Match in them and I’m happy with the results. My 455 shoots good but not quite as accurate as the 452s. Look in the CZ/Brno section of Rimfire Central and you’ll find more info and tips on these guns than you’ll ever need. Once the weather breaks I’m taking my CZs out for some much needed trigger time.
     

    gregkl

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    You may as well kick a man’s dog and insult his momma as say his choice of rimfire rifle isn’t the best.

    There’s been some great commentary here, y’all. Very civil also.

    Bolt accuracy, at the upper end, will probably halve that of any 10/22 anybody here has ever seen, much less owned. It’s just not a thing, and it’s not a reasonable expectation that they would be competitive in that deep, dark rathole.

    My 10/22 can empty 10 rounds in well less than the time I can empty 5 in my bolt guns...and I’m pretty fast on a bolt. It found itself with one ‘a those barrels from TX, and is at the most a 5/8” gun at 50, probably less (will find out this summer).

    I see reasons to own both.

    The biggest reason is because I can.
    Before I did a couple upgrades on my 10/22, I fhink my Weatherby xxii was a more accurate rifle. Might still be, but the trigger is not the nicest and I'm not touching that rifle with any kind of stone,lol.

    You are a knowledgeable and excellent shooter. You can wring every bit of performance out of something like a 10/22. Mere mortals like myself will take a while before equipment becomes the limiting factor.

    I'm happy with the groups I posted but I know they aren't very good for the seasoned shooter. I don't shoot.22 rifle but rarely. But I know if I decide to invest time into finding a round that works well and I practice, the rifle will be up to the task. At least for awhile.

    This has been a good thread.
     

    JimH

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    A well put together 10/22, using really good parts is tough to beat with the average shooter pulling the trigger. Bolt actions,in good conditions, will beat them 90% or more of the time, especially with someone that can read conditions pulling the trigger. I have owned and shot in competition Remington 40x's,numerous Anschutz 54's and 2007's,Winchester 52's,a Calfee xp 100 rimfire,Sako's and probably others with both factory and custom barrels. In perfect conditions-dead calm and good ammo,all would outshoot my best 10/22's. Let the wind start blowing and switching and I can get off 5 shots with a 10/22 before conditions change,a big advantage in group shooting.
     

    gregr

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    Wanted to get a survey of some rimfire shooters.

    I've got an upgraded 10/22 (Tactical Solutions bull barrel, BX Trigger Upgrade). I've never shot competitively with it aside from a casual "league" at an outdoor range I frequent. It was a 50 yard bench rest event, shooting 5 times at 5 bullseye targets. The few times I shot at this league I won or placed second out of 10-20 shooters. The guy that beat me, per the range manager, was using an expensive CZ bolt set up. He beat me be 1 or 2 bullseyes.
    I feel good about my cheap 10/22. I've never felt the need to have a more accurate rifle for the casual shooting and squirrel hunting I'm able to do with my set up.

    At what point would you feel the need to "upgrade" in accuracy from a 10/22 to a more inherently accurate platform like a bolt action?
    I would think that before you "upgrade" the weapon, you`d exhaust all ammo options. I`m far from a ballistics expert, and know that the rifle function can make a difference, but how much? If you find the right ammo for that semi-auto rifle, it may not be that far removed from a bolt-action or single-shot rifle`s accuracy.
     
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    I have several CZ 452s and a 455. The 452s are great shooters once you find the ammo they like. I use mostly CCI SV and Federal Auto Match in them and I’m happy with the results. My 455 shoots good but not quite as accurate as the 452s. Look in the CZ/Brno section of Rimfire Central and you’ll find more info and tips on these guns than you’ll ever need. Once the weather breaks I’m taking my CZs out for some much needed trigger time.
    IME that is one of the biggest issues with the CZs. I've had a few and it seemed they either really liked a particular ammo or they hated it. Last 2 I had I shot 15 and 13 types of ammo in each respectively. One, a 452 Trainer, shot a grand total of 2 types under 1 MOA and had several that were well over 3. The second was a 455 Mannlicher that would shoot 4 under 1 MOA and again several over 3, including one brand that was in the neighborhood of 6. Compared to my Tikka T1x, in which I've shot 19 types of ammo, 1 pushes hard at .5 MOA, 7 are sub 1 MOA and none were over 2. From what I've read over on Rimfire Central, my experience is not unique. The Tikkas just seem to not be nearly as picky when it comes to ammo. I don't shoot high $ ammo either, the most expensive ammo I use to any extent is SK Rifle and Pistol Match.
     

    gregr

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    Might also try the DNR range at Putnamville - Deer Creek. That's been my go to spot for rifle shooting the last few years. About 45 min from my house in Avon.

    100 yard lanes and 50 yard lanes with nice wooden bench rests. The facility is only about 5 years old.
    Deer Creek is crazy busy. They have the range go cold every 15 minutes or so, supposedly. If there aren`t a lot of people there, they will kind if cater to you a little bit, but good luck getting there with few people.
     

    Colt556

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    Deer Creek is crazy busy. They have the range go cold every 15 minutes or so, supposedly. If there aren`t a lot of people there, they will kind if cater to you a little bit, but good luck getting there with few people.
    IME that is one of the biggest issues with the CZs. I've had a few and it seemed they either really liked a particular ammo or they hated it. Last 2 I had I shot 15 and 13 types of ammo in each respectively. One, a 452 Trainer, shot a grand total of 2 types under 1 MOA and had several that were well over 3. The second was a 455 Mannlicher that would shoot 4 under 1 MOA and again several over 3, including one brand that was in the neighborhood of 6. Compared to my Tikka T1x, in which I've shot 19 types of ammo, 1 pushes hard at .5 MOA, 7 are sub 1 MOA and none were over 2. From what I've read over on Rimfire Central, my experience is not unique. The Tikkas just seem to not be nearly as picky when it comes to ammo. I don't shoot high $ ammo either, the most expensive ammo I use to any extent is SK Rifle and Pistol Match.
    You’ve put a lot more effort into than I did. I tried most readily available 22LR and a few premium brands but for me and my ability the CCI SV seemed to be the most consistent. For being a bulk ammunition the Federal Auto Match worked well too. I tried more expensive Target grade ammunition but I just didn’t see enough difference to warrant the extra cost. One interesting thing is that my 452 Full Stock shot just as well as the 2 452 Varmint HBs I have. The FS is much easier to handle too. My Remington 541T shoots almost as well as the 452s using the same ammo. The other rifles I haven’t really shot that much.
     

    1nderbeard

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    Deer Creek is crazy busy. They have the range go cold every 15 minutes or so, supposedly. If there aren`t a lot of people there, they will kind if cater to you a little bit, but good luck getting there with few people.
    Part of the problem in the last 12 months is they've eliminated half the shooting rests. Right now there are only a few 100 yard benches, and maybe 10 or so 50 yard benches.
    If you go during the week, or early on the weekends, I've not found it to be too crowded. But Saturday and Sunday afternoons are fairly busy.
     
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