Abortion: The unexplored issue

[Carmelbythecorn]

Whatever promotes liberty for the most amount of people is the right solution. Have people forgotten about adoption?

 

[Carmelbythecorn]

There are far worse fates than never having been born.

Said a person who has been born...

 

[IndyDave1776]

Whatever promotes liberty for the most amount of people is the right solution. Have people forgotten about adoption?

The leftist deliberately forgot because it doesn't fit the 'overpopulated world' narrative and help with culling of 'unneeded persons'.

The best way to comprehensively deal with the issue that I can see is that if a woman gets pregnant:

1. We will hope she is in a relationship and the couple raises the child as has been done with generally good results for thousands of years.

2. She may choose to raise a child as a single mother.

3. Barring that, there should be an option for the man to choose single parenthood.

4. Barring that, adoption.

 

[mrjarrell]

Some folks never bother to think of the unintended consequences of outlawing things they personally dislike. Fortunately, there are people out there who do think of these things.

Abortion: An Excerpt From _Hope_, by Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith

Abortions happened before Roe and, even if the men in this thread ever got their way, they'd still happen.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Some folks never bother to think of the unintended consequences of outlawing things they personally dislike. Fortunately, there are people out there who do think of these things.

Abortion: An Excerpt From _Hope_, by Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith

Abortions happened before Roe and, even if the men in this thread ever got their way, they'd still happen.

Do you really think we are that f**king stupid that we wouldn't have thought of such things? I am sorry. I will not now, nor will I ever condone murder of the innocent for the sake of convenience.

 

[mrjarrell]

Do you really think we are that f**king stupid that we wouldn't have thought of such things? I am sorry. I will not now, nor will I ever condone murder of the innocent for the sake of convenience.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think that that the vast majority of you are just that......unseeing. You'd willingly expand government and willingly intrude into and enslave women to your whims. The fact that you'd even consider the things in a positive manner that Zelman and Smith posited shows the insanity of your positions.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think that that the vast majority of you are just that......unseeing. You'd willingly expand government and willingly intrude into and enslave women to your whims.

First, cut off the .gov subsidies to abortion providers.

Second, legalize murder.

If you are willing to create a level playing field, maybe we can find some common ground, but this selective horsesh*t needs to stopl

Further, how the hell is it enslaving women? When all but a statistically insignificant number of abortions are the result of the highly predictable consequences of a free choice, how is it enslavement?

 

[mrjarrell]

First, cut off the .gov subsidies to abortion providers.

Second, legalize murder.

If you are willing to create a level playing field, maybe we can find some common ground, but this selective horsesh*t needs to stopl

To the best of my knowledge, .gov funding already does not cover abortion. Not sure where you're getting your info from.

As for murder. Abortion ain't it. The courts have spoken to the matter and it isn't murder, no matter how many times you folks scream it is. Go back and read the piece I linked to. How is it not enslaving women?

 

[IndyDave1776]

To the best of my knowledge, .gov funding already does not cover abortion. Not sure where you're getting your info from.

As for murder. Abortion ain't it. The courts have spoken to the matter and it isn't murder, no matter how many times you folks scream it is. Go back and read the piece I linked to. How is it not enslaving women?

First, a damned idiot can see that when money contributed with an exclusion for use for one of the organization's purposes that does absolutely nothing to stop reallocation of other incoming funds. This offset makes it virtually impossible to make true designated contributions, no matter how much the politicians and the organizations (Planned Parenthood for example) may blow smoke up our asses about it.

The courts have made conclusions on a lot of things the prove that they are morally, ethically, intellectually, and Constitutionally bankrupt. You of all people wouldn't accept judicial imprimatur as the final word on the encroachment of any other rights, and freedom from murder seems to be a pretty basic right.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Some folks never bother to think of the unintended consequences of outlawing things they personally dislike. Fortunately, there are people out there who do think of these things.

Abortion: An Excerpt From _Hope_, by Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith

Abortions happened before Roe and, even if the men in this thread ever got their way, they'd still happen.

Oh, and before I forget it, all you brought to the table was your less than humble opinion of right and proper. How about addressing the issue of personhood? Do you have any credible argument that an unborn child is not a person? Are you just talking out your ass picking the route of convenience? If you are such a super libertarian, why do the gross inequalities in the second half of my original post not bother you? Do you believe an any principles whatsoever aside from diminishing government (generally not bad, but a poor final destination)? Are you a libertarian or a libertine?

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do think that that the vast majority of you are just that......unseeing. You'd willingly expand government and willingly intrude into and enslave women to your whims. The fact that you'd even consider the things in a positive manner that Zelman and Smith posited shows the insanity of your positions.

The only difference between a fetus and a two year old is two years and change.

To be clear, I do not support a federal prohibition on abortion. Murder is left to the states to decide. I simply want a repeal of roe v wade because it puts the fed's fingers in state owned pie.

Then, I want the states to recognize abortion as murder.

As to the questions raised in the fiction you linked, the same considerations would be applied to pregnant women crossing the border to have abortions as would be applied to a father taking his two year old to mexico and not returning with him because he murdered the child and buried the body in the desert.

 

[Bapak2ja]

To the best of my knowledge, .gov funding already does not cover abortion. Not sure where you're getting your info from.

As for murder. Abortion ain't it. The courts have spoken to the matter and it isn't murder, no matter how many times you folks scream it is. Go back and read the piece I linked to. How is it not enslaving women?

Your knowledge is faulty. Check these comments and sources.

"PPFA’s income included a hefty and ever-increasing check from American taxpayers. In 2009-2010, government funding reached a whopping $487.4 million. In 2010-2011 the figure jumped to $538.5 million. The total for 2011-2012 reached a staggering $542.4 million, which represents 45.2 percent of the group’s total annual budget." <http://www.lifenews.com/2013/01/07/planned-parenthood-sets-record-more-abortions-than-ever/>. (PPFA is Planned Parenthood.)

"Planned Parenthood reported receiving a record $542 million in taxpayer funding, according to a Susan B. Anthony List analysis of the report, in the form of government grants, contracts, and Medicaid reimbursements. The amount is 45 percent of Planned Parenthood’s annual revenue.

'While government subsidies to Planned Parenthood have reached an all time high, so too has the number of lives ended by this profit-driven abortion business,' SBA List’s President Marjorie Dannenfelser said in a statement. 'Destroying nearly one million children in three years is not health care and does not reflect a concern for vulnerable women and girls.'" <http://washingtonexaminer.com/planned-parenthood-reports-record-year-for-abortions/article/2517801#.UPIjEKWdHe4>

Further, the courts only speak to what is legal. They do not speak to the difference between moral and immoral, good or evil. Taking the life of a human being in this fashion is murder. There is no justification of any kind for killing a child, in the womb or out of it.

 

[ryan3030]

To those of you who oppose abortion in its entirety, what are your feelings on abortion in the case of rape?

I don't get the people who oppose contraceptives. "Just don't have sex!" they say. Right, that will never happen. My vote in that situation will be contraceptives every time.

In the case where unwanted babies are brought into the world due to lack of foresight, willpower, contraceptives, or what have you, I vote for abortion before placing the burden of the child's life on the tax payer. You know as well as I do that we end up paying for those kids.

 

[Bapak2ja]

To those of you who oppose abortion in its entirety, what are your feelings on abortion in the case of rape?

I don't get the people who oppose contraceptives. "Just don't have sex!" they say. Right, that will never happen. My vote in that situation will be contraceptives every time.

In the case where unwanted babies are brought into the world due to lack of foresight, willpower, contraceptives, or what have you, I vote for abortion before placing the burden of the child's life on the tax payer. You know as well as I do that we end up paying for those kids.

None of what you state justifies the murder of another human being, in the womb or out of the womb.

 

[IndyDave1776]

To those of you who oppose abortion in its entirety, what are your feelings on abortion in the case of rape?

I don't get the people who oppose contraceptives. "Just don't have sex!" they say. Right, that will never happen. My vote in that situation will be contraceptives every time.

In the case where unwanted babies are brought into the world due to lack of foresight, willpower, contraceptives, or what have you, I vote for abortion before placing the burden of the child's life on the tax payer. You know as well as I do that we end up paying for those kids.

I can understand your point but cannot condone the execution of someone who did nothing to deserve it.

 

[CountryBoy1981]

To the best of my knowledge, .gov funding already does not cover abortion. Not sure where you're getting your info from.

As for murder. Abortion ain't it. The courts have spoken to the matter and it isn't murder, no matter how many times you folks scream it is. Go back and read the piece I linked to. How is it not enslaving women?

The U.S. Supreme Court, in Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927), upheld a Virginia law that allowed for the sexual sterilization of inmates of institutions to promote the "health of the patient and the welfare of society."

The U.S. Supreme Court, in Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944), held that Japanense internment camps were constitutional because of national security. This case by the way is still good law.

The Court has already spoken to these issues so it is settled according to you, am I correct?

 

[ryan3030]

None of what you state justifies the murder of another human being, in the womb or out of the womb.

You're operating on the assumption that I am 100% opposed to murder, I am not. I am a firm supporter of the death penalty for serious violent crime.

There are times, although extremely few and far between, where the taking of a life is warranted.

 

[ryan3030]

I can understand your point but cannot condone the execution of someone who did nothing to deserve it.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree on that point.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree on that point.

Just for fun, I will recap my solution for rape-induced pregnancy: The rapist will spend about two decades in work release with the proceeds going to the victim and child through the end of college for the child. After that, he will begin serving the sentence for the crime. Needless to say, no credit time or other consideration will be given for the time in work release. My guess is that under such circumstances, there would be very little rape.

 

[Bapak2ja]

You're operating on the assumption that I am 100% opposed to murder, I am not. I am a firm supporter of the death penalty for serious violent crime.

There are times, although extremely few and far between, where the taking of a life is warranted.

Agreed, there are times when taking a life is warranted. None of them cover the taking of the life of a child, in or out of the womb.

The death penalty is not murder. It is the justifiable execution of an evildoer to prevent the growth of the power of evil.

Abortion is murder. It is the taking of a human life for unacceptable reasons.