8 yrs of fear overcame w/ 22LR! What is next? LCP in 380?

[kjdoski]

Anytime your pistol starts having malfunctions on the range, the two most likely causes are lack of maintenance or bad ammo. You can eliminate the first by regularly cleaning AND LUBRICATING your pistol in accordance with the manufacturer's guidance. Once you have a clean and lubricated pistol, you can start ruling out ammo causes.

The third most common failure is user-induced - especially with tiny pistols. A finger resting lightly on the slide can slow the slide enough to make a tiny 22 not cycle properly.

A lot of "bulk" .22 ammunition is VERY dirty, both powder choices and bullet lube that can really muck up a pistol. The smaller the pistol, generally, the smaller the window of operational tolerances - meaning more frequent and more thorough maintenance is the best practice.

To your original question, if you find the report/blast/flash of the LCP in 22 to be objectionable, moving up to the same pistol in .380 is very unlikely to be a better solution. The P365 in 380 is an attractive option on paper, but I've heard lots of reports of reliability issues, especially with less experienced shooters or folks shooting with less than perfect grip technique.

Sorry to not have a "magic bullet" answer for you, but if the LCP in 22 works, and you shoot it well, better that than harsh language. I've been instructing a new shooter (had never been in the same room with a pistol before our first lesson), and she is heck on wheels with a GLOCK 44. ANYTHING in 9mm, including my heavy as heck, super soft shooting Shadow 2 is one round and "nope" for her. She fired one round through my LCP max and it took several sessions to undue the flinch she developed, because she doesn't like the blast/flash of anything center-fired.

So, my advice to her is keep shooting the G44, because she can draw and fire five rounds into a 3x5 card, on demand, in under 4 seconds at 10 yards. She can keep controlled hits on the same target up to 22 yards out - the longest shot she could possibly encounter in her house (she does not want to carry outside the home). At her age, if she never "graduates" to a "real gun," I have minimal concerns for her well-being in her planned defensive usage.

On .22 ammo, I've had really good luck with Aguila SuperExtra 40gr round nose solids. I don't think there's any advantage to a HP in a .22 for defensive purposes - chances of causing insufficient penetration far outstrip any potential expansion, especially out of a 2" barrel.

Best of luck and keep us up to date on your progress!

 

[Cameramonkey]

This might be a good event for you. Lots of folks hanging out and shooting. And a good opportunity to try some other gun options. Most people are happy to let others shoot their guns. And also get a chance to assist in some of your issues.

Proteq is right at an hour from the Indy airport out I70.

FALL 2022 OPEN INGO SHOOT October 29th @ProTEQ in Brazil!

Don and Stephen have once again opened up the SOUTH Valley at their range to INGO for a FREE Open House Shoot on Saturday, October 29th, 2022 between 10AM and 4PM. For these Open Houses, Don allows stuff that most ranges don’t (for this event only), like Tannerite and even black powder...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[2-Alpha]

Don & Stephen at ProTEQ probably have one of anything you’re thinking of and would likely bring it out for you to try at the open house. Or you can do one of their Test Fire Opportunity classes.

Thunderbolts are the worst .22s I’ve ever shot. We call them Thunderduds. My choice for defensive use in .22LR would be Velocitors. I’d stick to 40gr and avoid HP or super-fast light loads. I think the Velocitor or Mini-Mag would be less loud or flashy, but haven’t actually compared.

I’ll see the muzzle flash with my 9mm Shield at indoor ranges with FMJ but defensive JHP ammo is less flashy.

If you’re not concerned about the size & weight of the gun, then really look at some of the larger 9mm guns like a G17 or M&P. Even something like a Glock 48 with a bit more barrel length than the Shield or P365 will help and still is pretty small.

.38s out of a full-sized revolver like a 686 are soft shooting. Out of a light snubby like the LCR they’re unpleasant for even a few rounds.

 

[kjdoski]

I couldn't agree more with .38s out of a light weight snub. I shoot exclusively 148gr wadcutters in my LCR, and 50 or so in a day is still all I'm good for, and I've been shooting professionally and recreationally for about 40 years.

I likewise avoid any of the micro-pistols, because even the softest shooting of them will likely be very "snappy" for someone who's recoil sensitive. As above, I usually limit myself to 50-100 rounds in a session through my Shield Plus, which is the softest shooting subcompact 9mm I've ever shot (and I've owned the G43, G43X, G48, P365, P365XL, Hellcat, two or three different micro 1911s, and probably some more I've forgotten about).

 

[Cameramonkey]

Don & Stephen at ProTEQ probably have one of anything you’re thinking of and would likely bring it out for you to try at the open house. Or you can do one of their Test Fire Opportunity classes.

Thunderbolts are the worst .22s I’ve ever shot. We call them Thunderduds. My choice for defensive use in .22LR would be Velocitors. I’d stick to 40gr and avoid HP or super-fast light loads. I think the Velocitor or Mini-Mag would be less loud or flashy, but haven’t actually compared.

I’ll see the muzzle flash with my 9mm Shield at indoor ranges with FMJ but defensive JHP ammo is less flashy.

If you’re not concerned about the size & weight of the gun, then really look at some of the larger 9mm guns like a G17 or M&P. Even something like a Glock 48 with a bit more barrel length than the Shield or P365 will help and still is pretty small.

.38s out of a full-sized revolver like a 686 are soft shooting. Out of a light snubby like the LCR they’re unpleasant for even a few rounds.

This. They would definitely help you out in that way. Thats just the way those two are.

Or post up in the open house thread what you want to shoot, and I'm sure somebody will probably bring one. And they are both excellent instructors if you want some one on one paid coaching.

(and common courtesy is to provide your own factory ammo if you want to shoot more than a mag's worth, but most are perfectly happy letting you run one mag through of their own)

 

[Jenn]

So I went out to the range today intending to try the new ammo for the 22 for fun. Then I did some thunderbolts. I stopped after I had a dud.

I decided to give my (27oz) 9mm a go with Stelth subsonic Ammo. I eased into it with one bullet at a time.. and I had grippy gloves on for awhile but eventually took them off.

I had on yellow glasses so I think I could remember seeing flash when I started with the 22 but I can’t say I remember seeing muzzle flash afterwards.

I did flinch hard some of the times but once I loosened up I did get grow into liking it more than shooting the little LCP in some ways. I Dislike the fixed sights on the LCP.. I think I’m more accurate with the 9 due to the better sights.

I ended up shooting Federal 115 gr target, as well as Winchester 115 gr target ammo.
I’m pretty happy with myself. I know I have to work on my speed and flinching still but I was calm.. not nearly as jumpy or shaky.

When I don’t fight the flip or anticipate recoil, my bullets pretty much go exactly where intended with the 9.

The only reasons why I would go with 380 right now is if I was significantly faster with it than 9 and if the recoil isn’t tolerable with a micro-compact in 9 .. we will see.

I bought the Sig 365 FMJ and HP (low recoil) afterwards. I’m looking forward to trying it towards the end of the week. It’ll be less recoil than the target ammo I practiced with today.

I plan on trying the P365 XL, P365, Hellcat, Hellcat Pro, Shield Plus, and maybe the csx and Max 9 if I have time. I’m excited!
I’m guessing I should still start with my 27oz 9mm? I think it’s heavier than anything I Listed.
I also can try a p938 that my range partner has which may be slightly heavier than some of them.

 

[Jaybird1980]

So I went out to the range today intending to try the new ammo for the 22 for fun. Then I did some thunderbolts. I stopped after I had a dud.

I decided to give my (27oz) 9mm a go with Stelth subsonic Ammo. I eased into it with one bullet at a time.. and I had grippy gloves on for awhile but eventually took them off.

I had on yellow glasses so I think I could remember seeing flash when I started with the 22 but I can’t say I remember seeing muzzle flash afterwards.

I did flinch hard some of the times but once I loosened up I did get grow into liking it more than shooting the little LCP in some ways. I Dislike the fixed sights on the LCP.. I think I’m more accurate with the 9 due to the better sights.

I ended up shooting Federal 115 gr target, as well as Winchester 115 gr target ammo.
I’m pretty happy with myself. I know I have to work on my speed and flinching still but I was calm.. not nearly as jumpy or shaky.

When I don’t fight the flip or anticipate recoil, my bullets pretty much go exactly where intended with the 9.

The only reasons why I would go with 380 right now is if I was significantly faster with it than 9 and if the recoil isn’t tolerable with a micro-compact in 9 .. we will see.

I bought the Sig 365 FMJ and HP (low recoil) afterwards. I’m looking forward to trying it towards the end of the week. It’ll be less recoil than the target ammo I practiced with today.

I plan on trying the P365 XL, P365, Hellcat, Hellcat Pro, Shield Plus, and maybe the csx and Max 9 if I have time. I’m excited!
I’m guessing I should still start with my 27oz 9mm? I think it’s heavier than anything I Listed.
I also can try a p938 that my range partner has which may be slightly heavier than some of them.

A 27oz. 9mm will be easier to shoot than an LCP 380. The LCP will be really snappy. I would suggest getting to were you can comfortably shoot your 9, before moving on to smaller 9mm or really small 380s

And Congrats a lot of people give up right away.

 

[nonobaddog]

So I went out to the range today intending to try the new ammo for the 22 for fun. Then I did some thunderbolts. I stopped after I had a dud.

I decided to give my (27oz) 9mm a go with Stelth subsonic Ammo. I eased into it with one bullet at a time.. and I had grippy gloves on for awhile but eventually took them off.

I had on yellow glasses so I think I could remember seeing flash when I started with the 22 but I can’t say I remember seeing muzzle flash afterwards.

I did flinch hard some of the times but once I loosened up I did get grow into liking it more than shooting the little LCP in some ways. I Dislike the fixed sights on the LCP.. I think I’m more accurate with the 9 due to the better sights.

I ended up shooting Federal 115 gr target, as well as Winchester 115 gr target ammo.
I’m pretty happy with myself. I know I have to work on my speed and flinching still but I was calm.. not nearly as jumpy or shaky.

When I don’t fight the flip or anticipate recoil, my bullets pretty much go exactly where intended with the 9.

The only reasons why I would go with 380 right now is if I was significantly faster with it than 9 and if the recoil isn’t tolerable with a micro-compact in 9 .. we will see.

I bought the Sig 365 FMJ and HP (low recoil) afterwards. I’m looking forward to trying it towards the end of the week. It’ll be less recoil than the target ammo I practiced with today.

I plan on trying the P365 XL, P365, Hellcat, Hellcat Pro, Shield Plus, and maybe the csx and Max 9 if I have time. I’m excited!
I’m guessing I should still start with my 27oz 9mm? I think it’s heavier than anything I Listed.
I also can try a p938 that my range partner has which may be slightly heavier than some of them.

Good for you, that is great!
I think your approach is good and thorough and you will determine what is best for you.

 

[Cameramonkey]

CONGRATS! You are making great progress. Keep practicing. You'll get used to it.

And remember more weight=less felt recoil. My wife's all time favorite gun is a full size 1911 in .45ACP. She was actually upset when she learned I sold that safe queen to fund a PCC that I take to the range almost every time.

Also, try to get your hands on some 147gr 9mm. I actually prefer shooting that heavier load because it feels less snappy and is a smoother push. Just because the bullet is heavier, doesnt mean its going to feel like a more powerful round.

And if you decide to come to the Proteq event (and feel free to bring your range buddy!) let us know and I'll bring my Glock 42. Its a larger .380. Small, but wont quite fit in a pocket.

Keep practicing and trying different things. You'll get there.

 

[Jenn]

A 27oz. 9mm will be easier to shoot than an LCP 380. The LCP will be really snappy. I would suggest getting to were you can comfortably shoot your 9, before moving on to smaller 9mm or really small 380s

And Congrats a lot of people give up right away.

Oops I meant the 22 lr LCP.


I have a PX4 storm compact so it is a fatty and I love it. Now that I can comfortably shoot it albeit slowly, I wouldn’t mind carrying it during cold weather seasons, or in a CC bag of some sorts.
Ideally I would have something thicker than the Lcp but not nearly as big of a grip as the PX4.

Oddly enough the recoil isn’t what I am bothered by.
It’s mostly the noise. When I first pulled the trigger on the 9 today the thought in my head was mostly about anticipating the louder “boom” and not so much the “pop”.. well in comparison to a 22
I realized the recoil wasn’t so bad.. took it by loading one bullet at a time until I acclimated to the sound. And then I changed from 800fps 147+gr to regular 1000+fps 115 gr target ammo. I felt the stronger recoil at first but once I loosened up I stopped noticing the differences between them as much.
I haven’t tried shooting the 9 with clear safety’s though. The flash doesn’t bother me with yellow safeties.. I didn’t see it today. (I’ve seen the flash when my range partner shot my 9mm in the same cartridges.)
each time I’ve went the flash has bothered me less to the point where I just don’t really notice or focus on it anymore.. except for my first few shots and then I’m focused on the target.

Around 5-10 mins in, I’m much more relaxed. Wasn’t even nervous about my range trip today that’s a first for me.
I am getting a laser bullet so I can work on my aim/sight at home
I’ll also be practicing with the holster too.

 

[Jenn]

CONGRATS! You are making great progress. Keep practicing. You'll get used to it.

And remember more weight=less felt recoil. My wife's all time favorite gun is a full size 1911 in .45ACP. She was actually upset when she learned I sold that safe queen to fund a PCC that I take to the range almost every time.

Also, try to get your hands on some 147gr 9mm. I actually prefer shooting that heavier load because it feels less snappy and is a smoother push. Just because the bullet is heavier, doesnt mean its going to feel like a more powerful round.

And if you decide to come to the Proteq event (and feel free to bring your range buddy!) let us know and I'll bring my Glock 42. Its a larger .380. Small, but wont quite fit in a pocket.

Keep practicing and trying different things. You'll get there.

Thank you!!
That’s actually why I like the stelth ammo! It’s 165 gr and I think 800 fps.
I gotta get some more of it but I think I’ll mostly use it to get my range visit started and then switch over to cheaper target ammo.
If/when I get a suppressor, I definitely wouldn’t hesitate to use it for that purpose.

While at first I could tell a greater difference between the recoil, after awhile when I loosened up.. it became less noticeable. I definitely would prefer a lower recoil in a SD situation where I can get followups faster. Will report back after I’ve tried the 365 ammo (it’s FMJ supposedly shoots just like the HP).

I’ll definitely go to the Proteq event if I don’t already have anything going on!

 

[2-Alpha]

Subsonic 9mm like the 147gr will not have the “crack” that you get from supersonic bullets like the 115gr 9mm or high-velocity .22LR like the Thunderbolts.

 

[Jenn]

Hello everyone
So I went with my range partner and rented some micro compact 9’s.

I started with my 4” barrel 22 lr with stingers. 10 rounds.
One or two rounds through my Px4.
I think I may have tried the P938 prior to the rentals and at first I did not like it.
Tried the Shield Plus. It was the least snappy of the rentals.
Tried the P938 again and it wasn’t as bad as I thought initially.
Next was the P365 and it felt the most natural in my hand. The recoil didn’t bother me. It was less snappy than the Hellcat. I could see myself carrying it as I can improve my accuracy with it, I think the recoil is manageable. I liked shooting it.
Last was the Hellcat. Wow that first shot with it was SNAPPY. I think I tensed up and it jumped out of my left thumb after the second or third shot.
Once I shot it more, it started feeling better but it took the longest to get use to. It’s probably my least favorite trigger with a harder, far back wall? It felt different. However I was the most accurate with it out of the 3 rentals.

I think I loosened up towards the end as my accuracy improved.. It took longer since I wasn’t shooting alone.

I ended with the P938 with a 4 round group all within 1” or 1.5” at the most of where I was aiming. I got bullseyes with my storm my last visit but I was more relaxed. I bet my groups were much more consistent today though and I’ll take it.

I think I need to go alone and try them out again with more time for each.
I like the shield but it’s bigger than the Hellcat and p365.
With the sig I can order the XL slide, barrel, and recoil spring and put it onto the 365 frame if I choose to later which sounds interesting. I wouldn’t mind having a longer barrel on it but I don’t need a longer grip. Might be fun to switch out whenever I feel like it.
I read that can be done with the Hellcat but you’d have to purchase two separate guns to do that unlike sig.
So it’s between those two as of now.
Whatever I get, it needs to have a rail so I can attach a flashlight and be optic ready. I may add a red dot after Awhile.

I may try the Max 9… but I think I’d be content with either the p365 or Hellcat.

Ohhhh and did I mention Our lane was next to a lane with an AR?
I jumped sometimes but didn’t feel panic like I did the first time. Wasn’t as bad.

I really just got to work on recoil management and some flinching.
There’s no fear like there use to be as I enjoyed shooting the little 9’s. Almost as much as my Px4

 

[Cameramonkey]

Hello everyone

Last was the Hellcat. Wow that first shot with it was SNAPPY. I think I tensed up and it jumped out of my left thumb after the second or third shot.
Once I shot it more, it started feeling better but it took the longest to get use to. It’s probably my least favorite trigger with a harder, far back wall? It felt different. However I was the most accurate with it out of the 3 rentals.

I think I loosened up towards the end as my accuracy improved. It took longer since I wasn’t shooting alone.

Ohhhh and did I mention Our lane was next to a lane with an AR?
I jumped sometimes but didn’t feel panic like I did the first time. Wasn’t as bad.

There’s no fear like there use to be as I enjoyed shooting the little 9’s. Almost as much as my Px4

This is important. Like I said earlier: Practice, practice, practice. Eventually you'll be a machine and not bothered by the recoil. The fact that you are most accurate with this dependable pistol is incredibly important. You can overcome the recoil easier than you can the mechanical differences of a pistol that doesnt shoot well for you.

Dont worry about jumping next to an AR. Even outdoors I jump next to an AR. Its natural.

Glad to hear you have "graduated" to a centerfire caliber.

 

[Jenn]

This is important. Like I said earlier: Practice, practice, practice. Eventually you'll be a machine and not bothered by the recoil. The fact that you are most accurate with this dependable pistol is incredibly important. You can overcome the recoil easier than you can the mechanical differences of a pistol that doesnt shoot well for you.

Dont worry about jumping next to an AR. Even outdoors I jump next to an AR. Its natural.

Glad to hear you have "graduated" to a centerfire caliber.

Thank you!

I’ll give both another, more in depth chance when I go alone next.. with separate targets and everything to study afterwards.
I know either one will be a great option and may just end up getting the other one later on lol.

 

[nonobaddog]

Thank you!

I’ll give both another, more in depth chance when I go alone next.. with separate targets and everything to study afterwards.
I know either one will be a great option and may just end up getting the other one later on lol.

You are getting the hang of this really fast!

 

[DadSmith]

Hello everyone
So I went with my range partner and rented some micro compact 9’s.

I started with my 4” barrel 22 lr with stingers. 10 rounds.
One or two rounds through my Px4.
I think I may have tried the P938 prior to the rentals and at first I did not like it.
Tried the Shield Plus. It was the least snappy of the rentals.
Tried the P938 again and it wasn’t as bad as I thought initially.
Next was the P365 and it felt the most natural in my hand. The recoil didn’t bother me. It was less snappy than the Hellcat. I could see myself carrying it as I can improve my accuracy with it, I think the recoil is manageable. I liked shooting it.
Last was the Hellcat. Wow that first shot with it was SNAPPY. I think I tensed up and it jumped out of my left thumb after the second or third shot.
Once I shot it more, it started feeling better but it took the longest to get use to. It’s probably my least favorite trigger with a harder, far back wall? It felt different. However I was the most accurate with it out of the 3 rentals.

I think I loosened up towards the end as my accuracy improved.. It took longer since I wasn’t shooting alone.

I ended with the P938 with a 4 round group all within 1” or 1.5” at the most of where I was aiming. I got bullseyes with my storm my last visit but I was more relaxed. I bet my groups were much more consistent today though and I’ll take it.

I think I need to go alone and try them out again with more time for each.
I like the shield but it’s bigger than the Hellcat and p365.
With the sig I can order the XL slide, barrel, and recoil spring and put it onto the 365 frame if I choose to later which sounds interesting. I wouldn’t mind having a longer barrel on it but I don’t need a longer grip. Might be fun to switch out whenever I feel like it.
I read that can be done with the Hellcat but you’d have to purchase two separate guns to do that unlike sig.
So it’s between those two as of now.
Whatever I get, it needs to have a rail so I can attach a flashlight and be optic ready. I may add a red dot after Awhile.

I may try the Max 9… but I think I’d be content with either the p365 or Hellcat.

Ohhhh and did I mention Our lane was next to a lane with an AR?
I jumped sometimes but didn’t feel panic like I did the first time. Wasn’t as bad.

I really just got to work on recoil management and some flinching.
There’s no fear like there use to be as I enjoyed shooting the little 9’s. Almost as much as my Px4

Good post +1
I'm glad to see you found something that felt right. If you really like the p365 that would be the best way to go.
You did right by shooting several firearms and finding the one that best suited you.
So you know their are usually really good firearms sales around black Friday. You could save some money to put towards extra magazines or ammunition.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I agree the 365 feels pretty natural in the hand. A lightly loaded cartridge like those you're describing in a 365 xl might be just the ticket. Keep practicing!

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Hello everyone
So I went with my range partner and rented some micro compact 9’s.

I started with my 4” barrel 22 lr with stingers. 10 rounds.
One or two rounds through my Px4.
I think I may have tried the P938 prior to the rentals and at first I did not like it.
Tried the Shield Plus. It was the least snappy of the rentals.
Tried the P938 again and it wasn’t as bad as I thought initially.
Next was the P365 and it felt the most natural in my hand. The recoil didn’t bother me. It was less snappy than the Hellcat. I could see myself carrying it as I can improve my accuracy with it, I think the recoil is manageable. I liked shooting it.
Last was the Hellcat. Wow that first shot with it was SNAPPY. I think I tensed up and it jumped out of my left thumb after the second or third shot.
Once I shot it more, it started feeling better but it took the longest to get use to. It’s probably my least favorite trigger with a harder, far back wall? It felt different. However I was the most accurate with it out of the 3 rentals.

I think I loosened up towards the end as my accuracy improved.. It took longer since I wasn’t shooting alone.

I ended with the P938 with a 4 round group all within 1” or 1.5” at the most of where I was aiming. I got bullseyes with my storm my last visit but I was more relaxed. I bet my groups were much more consistent today though and I’ll take it.

I think I need to go alone and try them out again with more time for each.
I like the shield but it’s bigger than the Hellcat and p365.
With the sig I can order the XL slide, barrel, and recoil spring and put it onto the 365 frame if I choose to later which sounds interesting. I wouldn’t mind having a longer barrel on it but I don’t need a longer grip. Might be fun to switch out whenever I feel like it.
I read that can be done with the Hellcat but you’d have to purchase two separate guns to do that unlike sig.
So it’s between those two as of now.
Whatever I get, it needs to have a rail so I can attach a flashlight and be optic ready. I may add a red dot after Awhile.

I may try the Max 9… but I think I’d be content with either the p365 or Hellcat.

Ohhhh and did I mention Our lane was next to a lane with an AR?
I jumped sometimes but didn’t feel panic like I did the first time. Wasn’t as bad.

I really just got to work on recoil management and some flinching.
There’s no fear like there use to be as I enjoyed shooting the little 9’s. Almost as much as my Px4

Mind if I ask what magazine you were using with the p365? Was it the 10 rd with the flat base plate or extension or the 12 rd with the extension? The reason I ask is the p365 xl grip is the same size as the regular with the 12 rd mag and just a little longer than the 10 rd magazine with the extension. And to me the XL feels a bit better than the regular with the 12 rd magazine.

And great job.

 

[WebSnyper]

Mind if I ask what magazine you were using with the p365? Was it the 10 rd with the flat base plate or extension or the 12 rd with the extension? The reason I ask is the p365 xl grip is the same size as the regular with the 12 rd mag and just a little longer than the 10 rd magazine with the extension. And to me the XL feels a bit better than the regular with the 12 rd magazine.

And great job.

Make that XL module a Wilson Combat, and it's even better. Switched a couple of my 365's over to thr WC XL modules and love that combination.