.40 vs .45??

[mrortega]

I prefer the 40. It has 2 more rounds, is slightly smaller and weighs 7 to 8 oz less than the 45. The 45 does offer less recoil but I don't have a problem with the .40. I've heard that the 180gr .40 ammo recoils less than the 165gr but I have not compared the two back to back.

I have compared and I'll confirm the statement. I carry the 180s when I'm carrying a 40. My G23 Glock loves Gold Dots while the G27 is super accurate with the Federal HSTs. And surprisingly I've clocked the HSTs at an average of 1,010fps out of the little 27. That's what Federal advertises with a 5" test barrel so the stuff is a little hotter than specd.

 

[7.62asprin]

.45 because our lord and savior JMB gave it to us.

 

[thumperdogg]

.40 S&W costs less to shoot then .45 auto. Just sayin.

Walmart sells Federal 40's for $17 or Federal 45's for $17.50

I'll take the 45!

 

[VERT]

Walmart sells Federal 40's for $17 or Federal 45's for $17.50

I'll take the 45!

Have not seen any $17.50 a box Federal .45's down here. I think they are $19.97 + Tax. The 100 round Federal .40 S&W is $28 ($14 a box). That is of course if you can find them. Regular 50 round boxes of federal is indeed $17.

I can't remember the price of the TulAmmo but I think it is around $18 a box. In comparison .40 S&W is $14 a box. To go one step further 9mm is $10 a box. Not always an exact comparison but .40 is roughly 30% cheaper then .45, and 9mm is roughly 30% cheaper then .40. Based on that I tend to recommend 9mm to my friends looking to buy their first handgun.

 

[NIFT]

This horse has been beaten to death so many times, it is little more than a grease spot that would have to be identified by DNA!


Still, there are a few things to bear in mind:

• There is no such thing as "stopping power" or "knockdown power" in handguns (or rifles, for that matter.) Supersonic telephone poles and MK82 500 lb. bombs, and even the human foot--yes. Handguns, rifles--no. See videos below.
• Energy is not a wounding factor. Kinetic energy is a mathematical construct that does not wound, and KE is a poor proxy for wounding capability.
• On autopsy, no medical examiner can tell whether a wound was caused by a 9, .40, or .45, unless the bullet is recovered intact or the fired case is recovered from the scene. However, Dr. Vince DiMaio, medical examiner and author of the definintive clinical book, "Gunshot Wounds," agreed, in an extensive conversation I had with him, that, other things equal, a .45 disrupts more tissue, even though that cannot be seen on autopsy.
• From a physiological standpoint, hanguns are notoriously poor at "instantaneous" incapacitation, unless the upper central nervous system (brain stem to cervical vertebrae #7) is directly impacted.
• The study of terminal ballistics/wound profiles is mature with research by the FBI Ballistics Research Facility, International Wound Ballistiics Associaiton, Letterman Army Institute of Research, the Royal Canadian Mounted police, and others. Additionally, an ongoing study of wound profiles from autopsies on officer involved shootings in the San Diego Police Department, corroborate the findings of the FBI BRF, IWBA, LAIR, RCMP, and other reputable testing entities.

Here are the ammunition offerings that meet/exceed the seven FBI protocols for terminal performance, with 12" minimum penetration being the most important:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P JHP bonded (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger Bonded 124 gr +P JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Bottom line: when all factors are considered (tissue disruption, ammunition costs, magazine capacity, recoil, etc.), there isn't any substantive diffference among the 9, .40, and .45, assuming properly performing ammunition. Personal preference is a bigger factor.

Source:
Thoughts on Service Pistols, along with Duty and Self-Defense Ammo Recommendations - M4Carbine.net Forums

Now the "stopping power" videos:

7.62 NATO and .44 mag.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaS_2l8nGdg[/ame]

Human foot:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPSCZPDBuOc&feature=related[/ame]

 

[cartmanfan15]

I guess I understand the knockdown or stopping power, but how does the body armor change this factor? How many individuals who are robbing, mugging, or attempting to kill individuals wearing body armor? Seems like this would be a changing factor.

 

[NIFT]

I guess I understand the knockdown or stopping power, but how does the body armor change this factor? How many individuals who are robbing, mugging, or attempting to kill individuals wearing body armor? Seems like this would be a changing factor.

That is where the study of wound profiles and factors affecting physiological incapacitation comes in.

 

[davedolli]

I have had several .40s in the last few years, but I just can't get use to them, so I always end up selling them and buying another .45acp or 9mm.

Dave

 

[mvriley315]

Thanks for the link NIFT, loved it, very informative!!

 

[restonlane]

like the .40 to shoot

 

[VERT]

like the .40 to shoot

OK I will throw you a bone to help you get that post count up. What about the .40 S&W do you like? Why would you choose or recommend that cartridge over. 45?

 

[toomuchfun57]

I have a Glock 22 and a Kahr CW40 and .45 XD love them all, but I take the stopping power of the .40...IMO

 

[restonlane]

Sure VERT. My HK .40 is a dream to shoot, spot on accurate, with one shot stopping power with a hydra-shok. Why would I need to lug around a .45? Thanks for the bone.

 

[sgreen3]

I will have to say all things considered I shoot 9mm and 45acp more accurately than I do 40 thats for sure. Im gonna have to go back on what i said, I am gonna have to go with a 9mm for my next handgun purchase. Hard to argue with price per round for target practice and not to mention more than enough for personal protection. Now thats not to say I still dont or wont carry my 1911. But it sure is alot nicer being able to shoot more.

 

[churchmouse]

The 40 versus 45 debate is ongoing. I prefer the 45 ACP as it is the one I have put the most rounds down range with. Have shot different 40's and they are snappy but I have no issues with follow up or the recoil. We did a little test with a piece of 3/16th in. plate. Used a 9, a 40 and a 45. All shooting mid range ball ammo. The plate was 14X20 and suspended.
3 mags of 9 MM and it was barely moved and only smudged. 3 mags of 40 and it had several
dents in it the shape and contour of the bullet and was taking on a concave shape. 3 mags of .45 ACP and the shape was more apparent but the 45 did not "Dent" the plate. It merely pounded the crap out of it.
The 40 hits very hard denting the steel. The .45 hits hard as well but more of a bludgeon. The 9MM was a waste compared to the others but it is really not all that big. Please do not shoot me with a 9MM but it was dead last.

Personal preference. All 3 will do harm.

 

[ar1973]

.45 all the way but my son sais .40 2 different schools

 

[nvb]

a hollow point .40 may not expand but a .45 will never shirnk

 

[__Doc_]

40 because it makes people assmad

 

[JdsBiff]

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
all of the calibers seem to come out pretty much even according to this (scroll down for the hand gun info)

 

[cosermann]

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
all of the calibers seem to come out pretty much even according to this (scroll down for the hand gun info)

+1. The thing that will make the biggest difference will likely be YOU - your abilities, your tactics, your skill level - than any small difference between the commonly available service calibers in modern loadings.