2024 Legislative Session Thread

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  • JAL

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    TOUCH DOWN, HB 1235 PASSES THE SENATE, now goes to the house for a hopeful motion to concur.

    @KellyinAvon

    1709074176222-gif.336230
    :bacondance::rockwoot::bacondance:
     

    BigMoose

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    Hopefully they can fast track the motion to concur, and then get it to the governor quick.. in case the scumbags try and rush discovery before it gets shut down.

    The act does declare an emergency, so it should take effect when the Governor signs it.

    "SECTION 3. An emergency is declared for this act"
     

    KellyinAvon

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    I just got done dropping the dime on the turncoat-lower case r's.

    Bassler
    Becker
    * Brown (AKA Lizzo)
    * Glick (AKA Old Lady Glick)
    * Walker, Greg
    * Walker, Kyle

    * voted against ConC in 2022
     

    JAL

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    Where are Pol and Bangle going from here? Based on the arguments made during floor debate, this is my prediction:
    • Passing ordinances, etc. that ban all gun, ammo and gun accessory advertising, including all signage, and in all publications sold or distributed within the city and county, whether local, regional or national (e.g. no more Field and Stream there). California tried this and got spanked over commercial 1st Amendment rights. California claimed they were marketing to kids to induce them to violate purchase and possession by minor laws, inducing minors to steal guns.
    • Brady Bunch gathering up a load of individuals hungry for free cash in a mega-settlement to file individual lawsuits claiming they've been and are being harmed by gun manufacturers and retailers (FFLs), having to live in terror of being shot by criminals with guns that were made by the manufacturers and were possibly sold by the retailers, for which they'll need massive discovery of half a billion unredacted 4473's to sift through so they can prove their point. Whether that survives PLCAA and the new Indiana law would have to be challenged in the courts again. Class-action anyone?
    • Using the zoning exemption to create zoning ordinances that effectively prevent any retail sale of guns within the city and county by not allowing a single square centimeter of land on which a gun store or retailer selling guns can operate. Yet another tactic being pursued in California that's getting local governments slapped. IIRC, Chicago and Cook County tried this in the wake of the SCOTUS 2010 McDonald decision and eventually got spanked hard by the 7th Circuit over it after they kept worming around trying six ways from Sunday to get around every District Court Order issued to enforce McDonald -- with one of the tactics requiring gun range training and then making it impossible to set up a gun range.
    They'll be looking for any loophole or other means possible to resurrect what they had going in Gary v. Glock. I predict it will be futile, but the punishment isn't always the verdict, it can easily be the process bankrupting a defendant or respondent. Thus spake the fragmented leaves of tea in the bottom of my tea cup this evening.
     
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    BigMoose

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    First off, a big thank you to @BigMoose and @JAL for the play by play.

    Second, thank you to the INGOers for keeping up the heat on your elected officials.

    Now, time to go out to Crown Hill and dig up someone to run against Lizzo?
    Just be glad that by it’s nature I have to type things in for the Forum. If you guys heard me cussing out some of the people on the legislature streams, well ahh… it’s language that would make a sailor blush. Sometimes I feel I need to make rude gestures at the screen.

    Had someone over hear me and asked me what has my all wound up tighter then a cheap watch. I pointed at the screen and got.. ohh.. ohh yeah, continue. Lol

    One of these days I will figure out how to green screen myself into the corner and restream it… but it would have to be rated extra salty
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Just be glad that by it’s nature I have to type things in for the Forum. If you guys heard me cussing out some of the people on the legislature streams, well ahh… it’s language that would make a sailor blush. Sometimes I feel I need to make rude gestures at the screen.

    Had someone over hear me and asked me what has my all wound up tighter then a cheap watch. I pointed at the screen and got.. ohh.. ohh yeah, continue. Lol

    One of these days I will figure out how to green screen myself into the corner and restream it… but it would have to be rated extra salty
    INGO Rated ESRG
    - Extra Salty
    - Rude Gestures
     

    HoughMade

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    Where are Pol and Bangle going from here? Based on the arguments made during floor debate, this is my prediction:
    • Passing ordinances, etc. that ban all gun, ammo and gun accessory advertising, including all signage, and in all publications sold or distributed within the city and county, whether local, regional or national (e.g. no more Field and Stream there). California tried this and got spanked over commercial 1st Amendment rights. California claimed they were marketing to kids to induce them to violate purchase and possession by minor laws, inducing minors to steal guns.
    • Brady Bunch gathering up a load of individuals hungry for free cash in a mega-settlement to file individual lawsuits claiming they've been and are being harmed by gun manufacturers and retailers (FFLs), having to live in terror of being shot by criminals with guns that were made by the manufacturers and were possibly sold by the retailers, for which they'll need massive discovery of half a billion unredacted 4473's to sift through so they can prove their point. Whether that survives PLCAA and the new Indiana law would have to be challenged in the courts again. Class-action anyone?
    • Using the zoning exemption to create zoning ordinances that effectively prevent any retail sale of guns within the city and county by not allowing a single square centimeter of land on which a gun store or retailer selling guns can operate. Yet another tactic being pursued in California that's getting local governments slapped. IIRC, Chicago and Cook County tried this in the wake of the SCOTUS 2010 McDonald decision and eventually got spanked hard by the 7th Circuit over it after they kept worming around trying six ways from Sunday to get around every District Court Order issued to enforce McDonald -- with one of the tactics requiring gun range training and then making it impossible to set up a gun range.
    They'll be looking for any loophole or other means possible to resurrect what they had going in Gary v. Glock. I predict it will be futile, but the punishment isn't always the verdict, it can easily be the process bankrupting a defendant or respondent. Thus spake the fragmented leaves of tea in the bottom of my tea cup this evening.
    Assuming we get through the last couple of steps and this becomes law, I predict that the next thing that will happen is when the AG files whatever motion he files to take over the case (which the statute contemplates) there will be a big fight over that motion which, in itself may spawn appeals, regardless of the trial court ruling, before the case is even dismissed which is what it is expected the AG will do. Fine. This law is going to be tested through the courts somehow.

    As for banning advertisement, they only care about allegedly misleading advertisements because it if about the only thing the courts left standing of the lawsuit. Banning ads is "prior restraint" and a serious 1st Amendment problem. The City does that, they THEY get sued and they risk damages and attorney fees. They are not interested in being on that side of the "v".

    Individuals suing? Doubt it. That would result in too deep a look into the people getting shot. There are a few innocents and a lot of bad actors.

    Once the new law (assuming) winds its way through the system, if it stands (which, personally, I think it should), Brady gives up on Gary and goes elsewhere...because it always cared about the "cause" and never cared a bit about the people of Gary.
     

    JAL

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    Assuming we get through the last couple of steps and this becomes law, I predict that the next thing that will happen is when the AG files whatever motion he files to take over the case (which the statute contemplates) there will be a big fight over that motion which, in itself may spawn appeals, regardless of the trial court ruling, before the case is even dismissed which is what it is expected the AG will do. Fine. This law is going to be tested through the courts somehow.
    I agree.

    As for banning advertisement, they only care about allegedly misleading advertisements because it if about the only thing the courts left standing of the lawsuit. Banning ads is "prior restraint" and a serious 1st Amendment problem. The City does that, they THEY get sued and they risk damages and attorney fees. They are not interested in being on that side of the "v".
    California already attempted this -- banning all gun advertising in all magazines and newspapers as it was inducing kids to go get guns by any means possible and shoot everything in sight willy-nilly. Got slapped down for it by a Federal Court (not Benitez) as they couldn't show an adequate connection between the advertising and the actions of under-age minors. However, don't underestimate Gary and its County attempting the same strategy until they get spanked for it.

    Individuals suing? Doubt it. That would result in too deep a look into the people getting shot. There are a few innocents and a lot of bad actors.
    I agree it's a steep hill to climb, and the city/county are overloaded with bad actors (the locals refuse to adequately pursue and prosecute) but I believe Pol et al. won't rest until they cobble something together. Tenacity and perseverance are among their strengths, not weaknesses.

    Once the new law (assuming) winds its way through the system, if it stands (which, personally, I think it should), Brady gives up on Gary and goes elsewhere...because it always cared about the "cause" and never cared a bit about the people of Gary.
    I agree that Brady doesn't care about Gary or Lake county per se, only about their disarmament cause. I'll wait and see if they fold up their tent and depart, or go down another path thinking they can resurrect Freddy Kruger.
    -------------------------
    My biggest concern is the amendment carve out for zoning and how that will be weaponized to make it impossible for a firearm dealer or shooting range to operate anywhere in the city or county, by requiring large enough distances from schools, places of worship, and residences that there's not a single square millimeter left on which a firearm business can operate. I've little doubt Pol et al. already have compasses out drawing circles around their perimeters to see how far they need to set prohibited distances to make the entire city and county a gun store free zone.
     
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    JAL

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    Armed Attorneys (based out of Houston, TX) just released this one about gun stores, local zoning ordinances, and implications regarding the 2nd Amendment on their YouTube Channel. Deals with a case about a Philadelphia shooting range that wants to also sell guns. It's been ongoing in Federal Court in Philadelphia since 2015. Should be enlightening.

    It is precisely where I believe Gary and Lake County are going to be headed after the zoning exception amendment backed by Liz Brown. It's my take on it that firearm commerce is, with or without the PLCAA, ancillary to the "Right to Bear Arms". Without it, "The People" won't be able to. The British attempted to eliminate commerce in arms beginning in the 1760's by banning import of arms and powder into the colonies. A court looking properly at historical tradition from the Colonial Revolutionary War Era into the 1790's will take note of this. It's unavoidable.

     

    BigMoose

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    @KellyinAvon well apparently they need to get together and talk something out.

    Now as we found out last year, they do this sometime if two bills try and create code with the same numbers. So lets wait and see what happens

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