2022 Legislative Session Thread

[KellyinAvon]

Has anyone here actually read the 'constitutional carry' bill - a lot of pages and lots of potential nightmares from what I see of it. Not a lawyer, so perhaps just misinterpreting it. See the highlights on attached (if it loads).
Link to file on IN Gov website
HB1296.04.ENRS.pdf (in.gov)

I've read it a number of times. Keep in mind if it's not in bold it's already in Indiana Code.

If you copy/paste the parts that concern you (your pdf vomited on my shoes) I'll take a look tomorrow. Some of the late-nighters around here may chime in save both of us some time.

 

[KellyinAvon]

The highlighting didn't stick. I read it (not in it's full current form, for instance, they made a small change regarding offenses under the law by minors). For purposes of the LTCH -> constitutional carry, my understanding is that it's adapting the LTCH standards and current prohibited places from current law. I don't like that it doubles down on federal law, but it's not the worst thing. Where we want to end up? No. But a step in the right direction? I think certainly.

@JEBland is much younger than me and can stay up later. He also looks like his avatar. @WeeJ send your specific questions his way.

You don't get to be my age without learning how to delegate

 

[JEBland]

@JEBland is much younger than me and can stay up later. He also looks like his avatar. @WeeJ send your specific questions his way.

You don't get to be my age without learning how to delegate

It's a school night - I'm about to brush and go to bed! Plus my wife just woke up, so I can't play anymore for today.

@WeeJ I do think it's a good idea to air your concerns over the bill. Maybe we can compare/contrast with current law. There's definitely more to do (like not making it a state offense to violate fed. law, not helping the feds with enforcing their laws, etc). I'm looking forward to FuddBuster's grading on Indiana when he gets there.

 

[tbhausen]

Edit: this image is only an example. I am not calling attention to any particular part of the bill.

I downloaded it and saw the yellow highlights just fine on my iPhone using Adobe Acrobat Reader:

 

[WeeJ]

It is a lot to read if you can't see the highlights. Try reading pages 10, 11, 13, 16.

I wondered why a lot of people were talking about this but nobody linked it. It took a lot to find it, and I was concerned when I read it. Could have been written by a Democrat ?

Remember the mandate - you gotta pass it to see what is in it.

 

[WeeJ]

in.gov said this was the latest version BTW

 

[JEBland]

It is a lot to read if you can't see the highlights. Try reading pages 10, 11, 13, 16.

For the bit posted by @tbhausen , it seems (I'd need to double check the referenced IC) that they took the existing code and changed only the handgun portion of the existing code. While I agree that it's not perfect, would you rather the bill get tanked over loaded rifles? Personally, I'd say let's take this win while we can and fight that on another day.

I wondered why a lot of people were talking about this but nobody linked it. It took a lot to find it, and I was concerned when I read it. Could have been written by a Democrat ?

Remember the mandate - you gotta pass it to see what is in it.

I don't understand this point? The bill page includes the copy of the bill and ammendments. We've been linking to it for some weeks/months.


I'm off to bed. Have a good night, all.

 

[Jaybird1980]

It is a lot to read if you can't see the highlights. Try reading pages 10, 11, 13, 16.

I wondered why a lot of people were talking about this but nobody linked it. It took a lot to find it, and I was concerned when I read it. Could have been written by a Democrat ?

Remember the mandate - you gotta pass it to see what is in it.

Ok, I got the download to work. The only one I see that is somewhat confusing is the driving part on page 10-11.

I don't see what the issue is with the highlighted text on 13, 16, 17?

 

[WeeJ]

To be honest, yes, I would like to see it fail due to loaded rifles and shotguns - and having to apply trigger lock to them when in your car. I have a lifetime permit and anyone can currently get one, so why sacrifice one right to gain another. It looks like if you don't have a permit you can't leave your car with a gun ? It is a LOT easier to get new legislation through than it is to have bad stuff repealed

 

[tbhausen]

For the bit posted by @tbhausen , it seems (I'd need to double check the referenced IC) that they took the existing code and changed only the handgun portion of the existing code.

I only posted that photo to show what the highlighting should look like. I wasn’t calling attention to any particular part of the bill. It was only an example.

 

[actaeon277]

To be honest, yes, I would like to see it fail due to loaded rifles and shotguns - and having to apply trigger lock to them when in your car. I have a lifetime permit and anyone can currently get one, so why sacrifice one right to gain another. It looks like if you don't have a permit you can't leave your car with a gun ? It is a LOT easier to get new legislation through than it is to have bad stuff repealed

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What do you mean with..
It looks like if you don't have a permit you can't leave your car with a gun ?

 

[cbhausen]

I'm not understanding what you're saying.
What do you mean with..
It looks like if you don't have a permit you can't leave your car with a gun ?

And what has changed regarding loaded rifles and shotguns?

 

[Jaybird1980]

To be honest, yes, I would like to see it fail due to loaded rifles and shotguns - and having to apply trigger lock to them when in your car. I have a lifetime permit and anyone can currently get one, so why sacrifice one right to gain another. It looks like if you don't have a permit you can't leave your car with a gun ? It is a LOT easier to get new legislation through than it is to have bad stuff repealed

The way I read that is it only applies if you don't meet the requirements. The only thing that changed is the circled part.

 

[Gabriel]

To be honest, yes, I would like to see it fail due to loaded rifles and shotguns - and having to apply trigger lock to them when in your car. I have a lifetime permit and anyone can currently get one, so why sacrifice one right to gain another. It looks like if you don't have a permit you can't leave your car with a gun ? It is a LOT easier to get new legislation through than it is to have bad stuff repealed

In the portions highlighted above in tbhausen's link, nothing has been changed from current law except the handgun portion that reads "is not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm under state or federal law". The rifle/shotgun portion is already law, although I honestly didn't know that.

 

[WeeJ]

Great, looks like I've misinterpreted some things. But it seemed to me that if you did not have a pre-new law permit the new constitutional carry part was somewhat limited (to your car, your property, property where you have permission. Does it say somewhere that you can be in public with a loaded handgun and no permit.

 

[Lex Concord]

Great, looks like I've misinterpreted some things. But it seemed to me that if you did not have a pre-new law permit the new constitutional carry part was somewhat limited (to your car, your property, property where you have permission. Does it say somewhere that you can be in public with a loaded handgun and no permit.

I think I understand where you're getting that, and can explain why that's not the case...

SECTION 8. IC 35-47-2-1, AS AMENDED BY P.L.221-2017,
SECTION 1, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS [EFFECTIVE
JULY 1, 2022]: Sec. 1. (a) A person who
meets the following requirements may carry a handgun in the
manner described in subsection (b):
(1) The person is not prohibited from possessing or carrying
a handgun under federal law as in effect on January 1, 2022.
(2) Notwithstanding section 1.5 of this chapter, the person is
not otherwise prohibited under state law from possessing or
carrying a handgun.
(3) The person does not meet the requirements under
IC 35-47-2-3 to receive a license to carry a handgun in
Indiana.
(b) A person may carry a
handgun without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun
if:
(1) the person carries the handgun on or about the person's body
in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise
legally controlled by the person;
(2) the person carries the handgun on or about the person's body
while lawfully present in or on property that is owned, leased,
rented, or otherwise legally controlled by another person, if the
person:
(A) has the consent of the owner, renter, lessor, or person who
legally controls the property to have the handgun on the
premises;
(B) is attending a firearms related event on the property,
including a gun show, firearms expo, gun owner's club or
convention, hunting club, shooting club, or training course; or
(C) is on the property to receive firearms related services,
including the repair, maintenance, or modification of a
firearm;
(3) the person carries the handgun in a vehicle that is owned,
leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person, if the
handgun is:
(A) unloaded;
(B) not readily accessible; and
(C) secured in a case;
(4) the person carries the handgun while lawfully present in a
vehicle that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally
controlled by another person, if the handgun is:
(A) unloaded;
(B) not readily accessible; and
(C) secured in a case; or
(5) the person carries the handgun:
(A) at a shooting range (as defined in IC 14-22-31.5-3);
(B) while attending a firearms instructional course; or
(C) while engaged in a legal hunting activity.

then

SECTION 12. IC 35-47-2-3, AS AMENDED BY P.L.165-2021,
SECTION 196, IS AMENDED TO READ AS FOLLOWS
[EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2022]: Sec. 3. (a) A person who is at least eighteen (18) years of age and is not
otherwise prohibited from carrying or possessing a handgun under state or federal law is not required to obtain or
possess a license or permit from the state to carry a handgun in
Indiana. A resident of this state who wishes to carry a firearm in
another state under a reciprocity agreement entered into by this
state and another state may obtain a license to carry a handgun in
Indiana under this chapter by applying:

and then the requirements for getting a license follow later in the section...

It's confusing, as one must jump around in the IC, but, in a nutshell:

IF the following apply:
(1) The person is not prohibited from possessing or carrying
a handgun under federal law as in effect on January 1, 2022.
(2) Notwithstanding section 1.5 of this chapter, the person is
not otherwise prohibited under state law from possessing or
carrying a handgun.
(3) The person does not meet the requirements under
IC 35-47-2-3 to receive a license to carry a handgun in
Indiana.

One may still carry in the manner prescribed in 35-47-2-1(b).

As bolded, 35-47-2-3 is very explicit, with the new language, stating that you don't need a license if you meet the criteria. It then goes on to state that one may still get a license, and prescribes the manner and requirements for doing so.

Essentially, if you're not eligible for a license but not otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm, you can still carry in the ways that were previously (technically, still are) the exemptions from requiring the license.

 

[WeeJ]

Yeah, this is complex - but when dealing with lawyers and politicians you need to question everything. Matters not to me because I have a lifetime permit (there is a grandfather clause in there somewhere). The kids may not have it so good :-)

 

[KellyinAvon]

Yeah, this is complex - but when dealing with lawyers and politicians you need to question everything. Matters not to me because I have a lifetime permit (there is a grandfather clause in there somewhere). The kids may not have it so good :-)

Nothing wrong with asking questions. Some of the lawyers and politicians are on the side of the 2A thankfully

Seldom do you see a bill with 4 pages of text. This is because a lot of different Indiana Codes are affected and there's a lot of verbiage in Indiana Code. Strike-through (deleted) and bold text (added/changed verbiage) are what to key in on.

If you can't get an LTCH now, you can't lawfully carry without a license (HOPEFULLY) 1 July 2022.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Hey Eric!! SIGN THE BILL!!! Email and phone info in the attached link. The part in bold works for the phone message, did for me yesterday!

MONTGOMERY – Governor Kay Ivey on March 10th signed House Bill 272, known as the constitutional carry bill, into law, defending law abiding Alabamians’ Second Amendment rights.

“Unlike states who are doing everything in their power to make it harder for law abiding citizens, Alabama is reaffirming our commitment to defending our Second Amendment rights,” said Governor Ivey. “I have always stood up for the rights of law abiding gunowners, and I am proud to do that again today.”
In April 2019 at the NRA Annual Meeting of Members you said, “Removing any and all barriers for lawful carry in our state is significant for the many Hoosier gun owners who want to protect themselves and others.”
In 2019 you sounded a lot like Governor Ivey did last week.

Sign HEA 1296 into law.

Ask Eric

www.in.gov

 

[wtburnette]

Seems that GA is still pending. House and Senate both passed bills for this, but they were different, so waiting on one or the other to pass the other's bill. Ugh. Hopefully this gets done and gets on the Guv's desk so he can sign it.