It has to be this. Maybe not a plant but at least hoping to find something once they were in. Doing a risky no-knock makes no sense when you could just pick this dude up at his job.
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ATF Agent Shot
- Thread starter Route 45
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It has to be this. Maybe not a plant but at least hoping to find something once they were in. Doing a risky no-knock makes no sense when you could just pick this dude up at his job.
Do we know yet if this was a no-knock raid? I despise ATF infringement as much as anyone on here but facts matter. The dude they raided sure doesn’t look like the irrational type who would just start shooting if he know the odds against him (full-blown ATF raid vs. home invasion).
No details. One article did mention they used a ram to knock the door down. A house that size, are you going to hear someone knocking on the front door from a master bedroom likely upstairs with a door closed? Someone beating down your front door you would, and if coming out of a sleep state, defending yourself from that type of a violent entry is going to be tough, and will depend on the person. Different people react different ways.
DragonGunner
Grandmaster
TV news on you tube said no knock raid. He had no priors of any kind. Was shot in head and doesn’t sound like he is going to survive. The ATF agent was shot but is ok. The real victim sounds like he was shot in the bedroom or in bed. His wife was with him. The ATF may wish they had killed her also. Though probably not, as nothing bad ever happens to the alphabet agencies anyways.
This is relevant to another angle I've heard before though didn't mention in my rant:
If they don't use up their multi $100,000 budget (don't know budgets for SWAT teams, varies on jurisdiction and city) on Geneva Convention violating flashbangs and MRAPs more armored and rugged than what our boys had during Black Hawk Down, then they won't get their multi $100,000 budget next year.
Since yesterday I was reminded of another gem from another propaganda show, I think it was Memphis Swat or something (I don't actually watch these cop shows consistently, it's just when they pop on when someone else is watching them I tend to notice ridiculous things). They get a call about someone having a nervous breakdown at a hotel. Apparently he had a knife and was threatening to commit suicide. They decide to call SWAT with all the bells and whistles including their mobile command post. The Tweaker decides to barricade himself in his hotel room and an hour later SWAT breaks the door down. Tweaker has a piece of glass to his own neck, so they shot him leaving him paralyzed for the rest of his life. The show then goes on about how they came in and saved the day. They didn't want him to kill himself, so they shot him. What the actual f***.
Yet again I'll mention I'm not an expert in police tactics, but I feel that was a failure in almost every metric. It reminds me of a friend who tried cutting down a tree with a sledgehammer and one of those really big socket wrenches.
You mean , The Fake War on drugs ....................
dieselrealtor
Master
Looking back, doesn't the "war on drugs" actuallty more resemble Championship Wrestling?
Yeah, if somebody is a danger only to themselves, swat is the last thing we need to be sending. With just a knife, it should have been a handful of officers and a crisis negotiator. He has a knife and is alone. Yes it would be sad for him to take his own life, but as you can see SWAT can just make it worse. Not always but sometimes. Now if he had a hostage? Sure.
If the negotiator cant talk him down, gas him. He'll come out. LOL
EDIT: Or pump the room full of pure nitrogen. He'll pass out and you can cuff him peacefully. LOL
I am shocked that the slogan " Just Say No " didn`t work ?
CO2 is a lot cheaper and will do the same job.
Often thought about it as an anti-no-knock solution.
Ashton1911
Marksman
he could have been bribed to allow the funneling of material through his airport, although why it would be ATF vs DHS/TSA?
Airport executive Malinowski dies after shootout with federal agents
"With a heavy heart, we announce the passing of our executive director Bryan Malinowski," airport commission chair Bill Walker said.
The other thing is they keep calling it a "shootout". When I think of a shootout, I think of two or more factions exchanging fire either in defilade or in the open. This sounds more like Bryan got a lucky shot with his home defense gun before being suppressed with a burst from an AR. But of course the headline has to make it seem like this was some crazy bandido exchanging fire with the feds in a crowded neighborhood.
That’s how you control the narrative.
Gunmetalgray
Sharpshooter
Anyone (or website) tracking the nationwide body count where .gov has given themselves the power to be judge, jury, and executioner? i.e. Waco, Ruby, etc...
SWAT like methods have a place and purpose, this ain't it.
SWAT like methods have a place and purpose, this ain't it.
I will play Devil's advocate for a moment.
From what I have read, they were executing a search warrant, not necessarily an arrest, hence, not taking him at his office.
On the other hand, if they had executed the search warrant while he was at work (and not at home), it is unlikely anyone would have been killed/injured.
I can see instances where a "no knock" raid may be necessary, but those should be rare. This was not one of them. People should be prosecuted, and by "people" I mean ATF officials. Of course, nothing will be done. The three letter agencies have run off the rails and see themselves as being above the law - Constitution be damned. Very sad.
From what I have read, they were executing a search warrant, not necessarily an arrest, hence, not taking him at his office.
On the other hand, if they had executed the search warrant while he was at work (and not at home), it is unlikely anyone would have been killed/injured.
I can see instances where a "no knock" raid may be necessary, but those should be rare. This was not one of them. People should be prosecuted, and by "people" I mean ATF officials. Of course, nothing will be done. The three letter agencies have run off the rails and see themselves as being above the law - Constitution be damned. Very sad.
Yep. if you are doing a no knock its because you want to surprise them so they cant destroy evidence.I will play Devil's advocate for a moment.
From what I have read, they were executing a search warrant, not necessarily an arrest, hence, not taking him at his office.
On the other hand, if they had executed the search warrant while he was at work (and not at home), it is unlikely anyone would have been killed/injured.
I can see instances where a "no knock" raid may be necessary, but those should be rare. This was not one of them. People should be prosecuted, and by "people" I mean ATF officials. Of course, nothing will be done. The three letter agencies have run off the rails and see themselves as being above the law - Constitution be damned. Very sad.
So like you said, raid the empty house at 10am and simultaneously appear with 4 officers at his office to either serve him with notice or arrest him.
but you can't shoot him in his office so he can't fight the charges. DUH.
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