No more investing in EVs! Honda/GM joint venture into hydrogen for vehicles!!

[bgcatty]

The legacy car makers GM and Ford have lost billions of dollars based upon the folly of EV’s foisted upon them by the Democrats and Biden who have been brainwashed by the Go Green liberals destroying our country.
God save the United States, Please?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

All of this is based on a myth.

• GM and Honda said hydrogen and fuel cell technology will play a key role in cutting greenhouse gas emissions from their vehicles...

 

[Cameramonkey]

All of this is based on a myth.

• GM and Honda said hydrogen and fuel cell technology will play a key role in cutting greenhouse gas emissions from their vehicles...

Isnt CO2 a major greenhouse gas?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Isnt CO2 a major greenhouse gas?

Is it?

 

[Leadeye]

Hydrogen gets out of containers easily and escapes from fittings, in addition to being expensive to produce and hard to handle. NASA keeps working on it because it's a useful fuel for rockets, but I still don't see it in cars.

All this stuff keeps revolving around the fraud of climate change, eating up time and money that could be better spent.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Shell Immediately Closes Down All Hydrogen Stations for Passenger Cars in California

Shell is permanently closing down all the hydrogen refueling stations in California, leaving passenger cars with fewer options to refill

www.autoevolution.com

Shell drawing down investment in hydrogen refueling infrastructure despite massive subsidies. Not enough adoption in CA, even though the state has heavily pushed it and incentivized it, high cost of filling station construction, and lack of reliable affordable suppliers have all made it incredibly unlikely to be profitable.

 

[KLB]

ICE is superior in every metric, currently.

Except for performance.

 

[Ingomike]

Except for performance.

You can have your sewing machine motors powerd cars. Tell me about performance when they set the cannonball run record. That us the real test of performance…

 

[shibumiseeker]

Wait

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are EVs. The "battery" is hydrogen compressed to 5,000 to 10,000 psi.

Wait. Are you saying an electrochemical cell is proton transport between two electrodes creating electron flow through a circuit???

I love my ICE engines. Listening to a lot of the yapping on about how something can’t work happens with every change in tech because humans are resistant to change, especially when they think that their political enemies are for it, is as old as tech itself. Electric motors have -always- made more sense to me and as the tech in motors, controllers, and energy storage advances will continue to outstrip ICE. We have 150 years of perfecting ICE tech and while minor advancement can be made, we’re still in the early days of electric and it’s getting better rapidly.

If Al Gore had told us we needed to burn fossil fuels as fast as we can, INGO would be talking about how horrible their gas cars were and how superior they felt for getting rid of them.

 

[thunderchicken]

You can have your sewing machine motors powerd cars. Tell me about performance when they set the cannonball run record. That us the real test of performance…

Not to mention, I love the sound of a V8 with a good exhaust note. Besides I can feel it and hear it as it winds up as speed increases. Canned sounds they give some EV's are just a joke. I like to drive and I like to feel like part of the car when I drive.

 

[Ingomike]

Wait

Wait. Are you saying an electrochemical cell is proton transport between two electrodes creating electron flow through a circuit???

I love my ICE engines. Listening to a lot of the yapping on about how something can’t work happens with every change in tech because humans are resistant to change, especially when they think that their political enemies are for it, is as old as tech itself. Electric motors have -always- made more sense to me and as the tech in motors, controllers, and energy storage advances will continue to outstrip ICE. We have 150 years of perfecting ICE tech and while minor advancement can be made, we’re still in the early days of electric and it’s getting better rapidly.

If Al Gore had told us we needed to burn fossil fuels as fast as we can, INGO would be talking about how horrible their gas cars were and how superior they felt for getting rid of them.

Hey Mr. condescension, concerning your yapping, they have had even longer to perfect the EV since they predate ICE. Their performance has always been the holdback and that has not changed. I’m sure they said that given time and technology they would overcome the performance issues a hundred years ago…

“Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles appeared during the 1890s. An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until around 1900. In the early 20th century, the high cost, low top speed, and short-range of battery electric vehicles, compared to internal combustion engine vehicles, led to a worldwide decline in their use as private motor vehicles.”

 

[KLB]

You can have your sewing machine motors powerd cars. Tell me about performance when they set the cannonball run record. That us the real test of performance…

If you say so.

 

[Ingomike]

If you say so.

Are you disputing that EV’s cannot come close to the performance necessary to be competitive in the cannonball run?

BTW, I have long been a fan and follower of those that attempt the CR and consider them to be similar to NASCAR and Indy car back in the day with the ingenuity and performance aspects of completing the course. The fact it is “unofficial” with no IROC type rules is so cool…

 

[Pepi]

My grandson is teaching me how to shoe a horse

 

[KLB]

Are you disputing that EV’s cannot come close to the performance necessary to be competitive in the cannonball run?

BTW, I have long been a fan and follower of those that attempt the CR and consider them to be similar to NASCAR and Indy car back in the day with the ingenuity and performance aspects of completing the course. The fact it is “unofficial” with no IROC type rules is so cool…

Nope. Just the CR being the definition of performance.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Hey Mr. condescension, concerning your yapping, they have had even longer to perfect the EV since they predate ICE. Their performance has always been the holdback and that has not changed. I’m sure they said that given time and technology they would overcome the performance issues a hundred years ago…

“Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles appeared during the 1890s. An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until around 1900. In the early 20th century, the high cost, low top speed, and short-range of battery electric vehicles, compared to internal combustion engine vehicles, led to a worldwide decline in their use as private motor vehicles.”

Condescension is warranted since the yapping continues.

If the amount of research and development that went into ICEs had gone into EVs over the years we wouldn’t be having this particular endless yapfest.

 

[Alamo]

I think reports of the EV’s demise are greatly exaggerated.

Doesn’t seem that EV sales are declining so much as companies that are not very good at mass producing EVs are backing off. In particular the Tesla Model Y increased worldwide sales in 2023 by 64% over 2022, becoming the number one selling model car in the world for 2023. Not just the best selling EV model, the best selling model period, leapfrogging over Toyota RAV4, Toyota Corolla, and F-series pickups.

In the US, F-series pickups - that is all models together including the EV F-150 - are still the number one seller, followed by GM and Ram (which also combine all models in their figures). Toyota RAV4, combining both ICE and hybrid versions, are number 4, and Tesla Model Y is number 5. Model 3 comes in at 12, but it is the number 2 selling sedan. (In general SUVs sell much better in the US, and the Model Y is basically an SUV version of the Model 3.)

Tesla's total US EV market share slipped in 2023 but they still sold more than anyone else buy a huge margin, and I don’t think theyare going anywhere.

Tesla has been developing a battery recycling plant at their Nevada Gigafactory, and their former chief battery guy left in 2019 to lead his own battery recycling plant also in Nevada. Tesla says they can get 92% recovery from their own batteries, and apparently plan to add a recycling plant to each of their gigafactories when they have the first one sorted out. They will also recycle at the lithium refining plant the recently opened in Texas. And they source the raw materials directly from several mines, assuring their own supplies. This is good, I think EVs should have be required to have a complete lifecycle plan to deal with their issues from mining to disposal. (But then so should ICE vehicles.)

In other words, EVs, at least Tesla ones, are not going away, and they are getting cheaper and better, as does any new technology. They are still more expensive than economically makes sense for my particular economic situation, but that will change over time.

I don’t think EVs should be forced down anyone’s throat, but neither do I think they should be dismissed. The infrastructure will follow the need, just like it did with ICE cars.

 

[Ingomike]

Condescension is warranted since the yapping continues.

If the amount of research and development that went into ICEs had gone into EVs over the years we wouldn’t be having this particular endless yapfest.

Those incapable of discussing and defending their positions resort to name calling. Maybe you should study history. Research into EV continued, it just is not viable for free people in a big country. If they could they would. And now because of scarcity of rare earth metals the manufacturers are going backward in technology just to build batteries.

This will be the biggest boondoggle we have ever seen…

 

[Ingomike]

I think reports of the EV’s demise are greatly exaggerated.

Doesn’t seem that EV sales are declining so much as companies that are not very good at mass producing EVs are backing off. In particular the Tesla Model Y increased worldwide sales in 2023 by 64% over 2022, becoming the number one selling model car in the world for 2023. Not just the best selling EV model, the best selling model period, leapfrogging over Toyota RAV4, Toyota Corolla, and F-series pickups.

In the US, F-series pickups - that is all models together including the EV F-150 - are still the number one seller, followed by GM and Ram (which also combine all models in their figures). Toyota RAV4, combining both ICE and hybrid versions, are number 4, and Tesla Model Y is number 5. Model 3 comes in at 12, but it is the number 2 selling sedan. (In general SUVs sell much better in the US, and the Model Y is basically an SUV version of the Model 3.)

Tesla's total US EV market share slipped in 2023 but they still sold more than anyone else buy a huge margin, and I don’t think theyare going anywhere.

Tesla has been developing a battery recycling plant at their Nevada Gigafactory, and their former chief battery guy left in 2019 to lead his own battery recycling plant also in Nevada. Tesla says they can get 92% recovery from their own batteries, and apparently plan to add a recycling plant to each of their gigafactories when they have the first one sorted out. They will also recycle at the lithium refining plant the recently opened in Texas. And they source the raw materials directly from several mines, assuring their own supplies. This is good, I think EVs should have be required to have a complete lifecycle plan to deal with their issues from mining to disposal. (But then so should ICE vehicles.)

In other words, EVs, at least Tesla ones, are not going away, and they are getting cheaper and better, as does any new technology. They are still more expensive than economically makes sense for my particular economic situation, but that will change over time.

I don’t think EVs should be forced down anyone’s throat, but neither do I think they should be dismissed. The infrastructure will follow the need, just like it did with ICE cars.

Tesla is not making it on their own. They are really profiting from selling carbon offset credits. Where are the rare earth metals going to come from for all this? Where is the grid for all this? This is the biggest sell job in history and it still cannot run on its own.

Just as social security is a Ponzi scheme you and I would be arrested for perpetuating something similar so to with the EV setup, if private companies were pushing the EV stuff like the government they would also be arrested.

Heck, Martha’s Vinyard cannot even support an EV charger without the government stepping in. Did government build the gas station network?

The fact is that ICE vehicles allow too much freedom and are under threat to restrict freedom of movement. TPTB tell you this in their public statements. Lenin had a name for those he duped into supporting him to their detriment, I wonder if the current overlords use the same words or have their own? Oh, I forgot one we heard, deplorable…

 

[KLB]

Heck, Martha’s Vinyard cannot even support an EV charger without the government stepping in. Did government build the gas station network?

Come on Mike, that is such a misrepresentation of facts. Just because they qualified for or received .gov money, does not mean they could not support a charger without it.