Big Problems if Trump is Indicted

[jamil]

Apologies, it was not my intent to infer personal knowledge of the charges, only to try to report what some others were claiming.

I have not made the claim the charges were not politically motivated in any of my previous posts, and I am not making that claim now. I doubt any prosecution is completely devoid of political motivations entirely, and I imagine some are more politically motivated than others.

I am not sure how to measure the amount of political motivation in someone else’s actions but, assuming no prosecution is really 0% politically motivated, where would we draw an appropriate line?

Is a prosecution that is 10% politically motivated acceptable? 25%? 51%?

What about a prosecution that appears overtly politically motivated, but uncovers factual criminal conduct?

Is there a way to investigate politicians for criminal actions without being accused of political motivations? How much credence should be given when those accusations are themselves equally likely to be politically motivated?

There are a number of identifiers that a given prosecution is politically motivated.

• Did the prosecutor vow to charge the defendant as a campaign promise before any investigations possibly have revealed any wrongdoing?
• Is the prosecutor focusing all the efforts on charging a political enemy instead of prosecuting other crimes?
• Is the prosecutor consistent? Are charges being pursued against a person of an opposing party that would not be brought against someone of his own party?
• Is the case overcharged?
• Does it pass the smell test?

Is there a way to investigate without being accused of political motivations? C'mon man. How about don't promise to indict the target of the investigation before you even have suspicion of a crime? What's the old saying coined by Laverently Beria? Show me the person I'll show you the crime?

I guess I’m comfortable with the appearance of political motivation if the criminal investigation reveals factual criminal behavior...I’m honestly not sure how we could really avoid it, pragmatically speaking.

I find this shocking actually. Why not investigate everyone? I mean. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't object. No evidence of a crime taking place? Just investigate. Everyone's hiding something. Everyone's guilty of something. Just dig until you find it.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Trump broke any laws worth locking him up for 134 years? Again, yeah. This is a sanity test.

 

[Ingomike]

New York prosecutors' pursuit of Trump collides with a Hillary Clinton double standard

Clinton disguised payment for Steele dossier as legal bill and walked away with fine but Trump to face trial for listing a non-disclosure payment as a legal expense.

justthenews.com

 

[mutt]

So, was his crime trying as hard as possible to actually do the things he campaigned on, thus earning the endearment of conservatives - 'so-called' I imagine because they don't agree with you?

Am I to assume as well that Pelosi and Schumer et al are NOT scumbags, because they exhibit obvious self-serving behavior but elicit no opprobrium from you?

Do you root for a two tiered justice system for any other reason than that it is people you dislike who are on the short end of it? Do you feel that the 'right kind' of Republicanism is somehow on the upswing?

Show us on the doll where MAGA hurt you

307 days, he took advantage of 307 days to prove how hard would work the job.
He spent 307 days playing golf.
Re Ind me again about all the promises he kept?

I just jumped on the easiest one

 

[Ingomike]

307 days, he took advantage of 307 days to prove how hard would work the job.
He spent 307 days playing golf.
Re Ind me again about all the promises he kept?

I just jumped on the easiest one

And still did more than any President in modern history…

 

[KG1]

And still did more than any President in modern history…

And did it with an 800# Gorilla on his back the whole way trying to take him down.

 

[LeftyGunner]

I find this shocking actually. Why not investigate everyone? I mean. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't object. No evidence of a crime taking place? Just investigate. Everyone's hiding something. Everyone's guilty of something. Just dig until you find it.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Trump broke any laws worth locking him up for 134 years? Again, yeah. This is a sanity test.

To your first point: Our would-be “ruling class” has corrupted the government to the point it is unrecognizable as a constitutional republic in modern times. Investigate everyone? I have no problems *at all* with investigating the officials we elect and holding them accountable for the crimes they committed while in office...call it implied consent. If my 4th amendment rights can be so easily curtailed for the ease of ”public oversight”, so should theirs.

To your second point: which iteration of your question are you looking to be answered?

A) Do I think Trump broke laws? I think he is under numerous investigations for breaking laws. I think he was indicted for breaking laws, and I think he will settle pre-trial to avoid taking full responsibility for breaking laws. Yeah…I think he most likely broke laws.

Do you?

B) Do I think the laws that Trump most likely broke should warrant a sentence of 134 years in prison? No, and I have no expectation that he will (or even should) see a single day behind bars if convicted. I expect he will use his wealth and connections to avoid responsibility here, much as he has done repeatedly over the course of his entire life...spineless cowards will spinelessly cower, after all.

 

[KG1]

There are a number of identifiers that a given prosecution is politically motivated.

• Did the prosecutor vow to charge the defendant as a campaign promise before any investigations possibly have revealed any wrongdoing?
• Is the prosecutor focusing all the efforts on charging a political enemy instead of prosecuting other crimes?
• Is the prosecutor consistent? Are charges being pursued against a person of an opposing party that would not be brought against someone of his own party?
• Is the case overcharged?
• Does it pass the smell test?

Is there a way to investigate without being accused of political motivations? C'mon man. How about don't promise to indict the target of the investigation before you even have suspicion of a crime? What's the old saying coined by Laverently Beria? Show me the person I'll show you the crime?




I find this shocking actually. Why not investigate everyone? I mean. If you have nothing to hide you shouldn't object. No evidence of a crime taking place? Just investigate. Everyone's hiding something. Everyone's guilty of something. Just dig until you find it.

Let me ask you this. Do you think Trump broke any laws worth locking him up for 134 years? Again, yeah. This is a sanity test.

Don't forget the timing of this as well. It smacks of election interreference. Would this charge have been brought if Trump hadn't announced his campaign for 2024? It could certainly have been brought well before now.

I think the prosecution even requested at the arraignment that this be pushed back into next year right at the heart of the primaries. I say all things certainly do point in the direction of selective political prosecution to affect an election.

Why push so hard to turn a bookkeeping misdemeanor into a felony when you have a record of reducing felonies into misdemeanors for violent repeat offenders running rampant on the streets of NY?

I think we all have a pretty good guess why. He needed to go for that felony charge because if convicted of a felony it would knock Trump right out of his bid for 2024. A misdemeanor would not have got him there.

 

[Shadow01]

Hopefully this becomes the most expensive trial in NY history for taxpayers and Trump wins…

 

[LeftyGunner]

And still did more than any President in modern history…

What are the lasting effects of the Trump presidency?

I cannot name a single positive example, but I can give you several negative examples:

1) Reduced faith in the electoral process, especially on the political right due to his constant lying about the election.

2) Reduced faith in the impartiality of the judicial branch due to the overtly ideological nature of his Supreme Court appointments.

3) Inflationary economic conditions worsened by lopsided tax cuts and reckless spending.

On top of the damage he has done to the necessary institutions of our country we have do deal with the never-ending media circus he cultivates in order to validate his endless narcissism.

That he “did more than any president in modern history” is hyperbolic at best.

 

[firecadet613]

What are the lasting effects of the Trump presidency?

I cannot name a single positive example, but I can give you several negative examples:

1) Reduced faith in the electoral process, especially on the political right due to his constant lying about the election.

2) Reduced faith in the impartiality of the judicial branch due to the overtly ideological nature of his Supreme Court appointments.

3) Inflationary economic conditions worsened by lopsided tax cuts and reckless spending.

On top of the damage he has done to the necessary institutions of our country we have do deal with the never-ending media circus he cultivates in order to validate his endless narcissism.

That he “did more than any president in modern history” is hyperbolic at best.

What will the lasting effects of the current administration be?

 

[KG1]

Hopefully this becomes the most expensive trial in NY history for taxpayers and Trump wins…

The judge added to the tab when he required Trump to be at the December4 hearing which basically consists of pretrial motions that can be hashed out by the attorneys. Trump doesn't have anything to do but sit there. More waste of taxpayer money and another opportunity for potential heated protests/counter protests to get out of hand for the NY cops and the city to deal with.

 

[KLB]

2) Reduced faith in the impartiality of the judicial branch due to the overtly ideological nature of his Supreme Court appointments.

Those justices are far less ideological than the other three on the court, especially the most recent addition.

3) Inflationary economic conditions worsened by lopsided tax cuts and reckless spending.

Not sure how you are dumping inflation on Trump's doorstep.

Your take on tax cuts sounds like CNN. The tax cuts helped a lot of people who are far from rich, but actually do pay taxes. It is hard to give tax relief to people that don't actually pay much of anything in income tax.

Spending is Congress, not the President. The Democrats are the ones that printed trillions of dollars under the excuse of covid while simultaneously doing their best to lock down and destroy the economy.

 

[HoosierLife]

They’re being charged as felonies. He’s technically correct. But can he say with his intellectual integrity intact that the charges were not politically motivated?

But then the polls are showing an ideologically possessed society. ~80% of Americans think politics played a role. The more to the right you are the stronger you think it impacted the charges. But almost all Americans think that the charges were motivated by politics.

And 60% of Americans approve. 3/5’s say, eh, **** rule of law. We want him to go to jail and we don’t care why. America is ****ed. It’s just a matter of time.

Yeah it is unfortunately. So when some locale says let’s buy the 10 commandments back in school… it might actually slow the decline somewhat…

 

[Cg1988]

he probably SHOULD be indicted. Dude is a scumbag liar - always has been. Funny how the long-time north-east limosuine liberal democrat fooled so many so-called conservatives into worshiping him.

The comments from the mouth-breathing liberals are entertaining.

Keeps my boredom down for sure

 

[Cg1988]

You should probably study the constitution. You could also go back and look at all the presidents of our lifetimes, just who delivered more of the promises than Trump?

That’s why people are scared of him, because he fulfills his promises and doesn’t take crap from anybody about it

 

[Cg1988]

And still did more than any President in modern history…

He’s a good multitasker

 

[jamil]

What are the lasting effects of the Trump presidency?

I'd say the lasting effect is the ratcheting of extremism. Bush begat Obama, Obama begat Trump, Trump begat Biden. Not just in pushing the audacity of each successive administration. But furthering the effect of pen and phone replacing legislatures.

But that's about it. Biden has erased everything positive Trump had done, and also has brought forth a world no one but bat **** crazy people would rather live in than the one we had.

I cannot name a single positive example, but I can give you several negative examples:

I think that's a partisan failure of imagination. Would you rather live in the world that was in 2019, or this one?

1) Reduced faith in the electoral process, especially on the political right due to his constant lying about the election.

Now, I tend to agree with you that there was no Kraken. However, Democrats did more to erode faith in the election process than Trump. Democrats and a few Republican defectors worked behind the scenes in 2020, under the guise of covid election mitigation, to relax the rules. An election season rather than an election day gives the purple haired, gender questionable army of harvesters time to get as many ballots as needed to win each district. Mail in ballots and reduce chain of custody, compared to in-person voting.

Trump's post-election shenanigans did not impact public distrust of elections as much as the exaggerated reporting did. It was pathetic. It was never going to work. It speaks to Trump's character that he'd even try it. But it didn't shake any sane person's confidence in elections as much as rules being relaxed that would favor Democrats by a lot.

2) Reduced faith in the impartiality of the judicial branch due to the overtly ideological nature of his Supreme Court appointments.

Why complain about them? Are they any less ideological than Biden's pick? That's not a claim of whataboutism. It is a challenge that this is not really what you're complaining about. It's not that you don't want partisans on the bench. It's that you don't want right wing partisans on the bench. You disagree with their rulings while agreeing on the left wing ideologues. Is Sotomayor any less of an ideologue than Trump appointees? Keagan? This is what presidents do now. They nominate ideologues. Complaining about the Trump appointees without acknowledging the ideologues you prefer makes you look partisan rather than discerning.

3) Inflationary economic conditions worsened by lopsided tax cuts and reckless spending.

I don't think you even put any thought into that one. Of course Trump's spending was absurd. Overall the tax breaks were modest and inflation was in check until covid. Biden blew the **** off the lid of inflation with his reckless policies.

On top of the damage he has done to the necessary institutions of our country we have do deal with the never-ending media circus he cultivates in order to validate his endless narcissism.

That he “did more than any president in modern history” is hyperbolic at best.

Don't you think it makes you sound partisan when you hyperbolize the damage Trump has done while ignoring the damage Democrats have done that is more lasting. Trump's administration was pretty tame other than that we did not have a statesman in the Whitehouse during his term. The dammage Obama, and Biden have done is vast and longlasting in comparison.

You look back to other Republican administrations in the past, and those might seem extreme to you after 8 years of Obama. But Trump's policies did not diverge enough from the policies of most Republicans to justify the hyperbole.

 

[jamil]

What will the lasting effects of the current administration be?

A totalitarian state within the next 10 years?

 

[jamil]

Yeah it is unfortunately. So when some locale says let’s buy the 10 commandments back in school… it might actually slow the decline somewhat…

How? You think posting 10 commandments in school is gonna make kids think, oh, that's a good idea. I think I should start honoring my parents?

My prediction is, students will vandalize the displays and teachers will turn a blind eye if not even help. The contempt for religion is high. This isn't the 90's, the golden age of evangelical political power. They squandered it on the likes of Jerry Fallwell. Posting the thing they resent will not help them accept it.

 

[KG1]

What are the lasting effects of the Trump presidency?

I cannot name a single positive example, but I can give you several negative examples:

1) Reduced faith in the electoral process, especially on the political right due to his constant lying about the election.

2) Reduced faith in the impartiality of the judicial branch due to the overtly ideological nature of his Supreme Court appointments.

3) Inflationary economic conditions worsened by lopsided tax cuts and reckless spending.

On top of the damage he has done to the necessary institutions of our country we have do deal with the never-ending media circus he cultivates in order to validate his endless narcissism.

That he “did more than any president in modern history” is hyperbolic at best.

Hmmm.. I believe you said at one time in the 2024 Trump thread that Trump was far more tolerable as a president than a candidate when I posed this question to you in that thread.

Serious question. All of the negative personality traits about Trump aside could it be said that he at least did well enough in office both foreign and domestically to maintain American prosperity and standing despite having the jackals hounding him throughout his presidency with bull**** investigations and constantly trying to undermine his presidency?

Those positive things certainly didn't have a lasting effect after Biden took office. I would say that Biden has had the exact opposite effect both foreign and domestically. It's not even close.

Trump was overseeing an American resurgence and Biden is overseeing a drastic decline because of his (Biden;s) policies.

Here was your response to my question:

I could agree with that…for the most part…until we get the the 2020 election. Trump, the President, was far more tolerable than Trump, the candidate, but his behavior during the election and the aftermath fully negate any credit he might have earned for it…(in my opinion).

Trump 2024 ???

Dude, I used to believe that one should vote for whoever wins the primary even if it isn't your guy, but after reading how so many INGOers are never going to vote for Trump no matter because; feelings I'm starting to feel more like **** it, if I can't have Trump then burn it down IMO it may be...

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