3 Arkansas officers involved in violent arrest are identified

[DragonGunner]

Simple. You're ignoring the context of the situation, which is that this was not a retaliatory beating, but an attempt to get him to comply so that they could restrain him safely, as he had just violently attacked an officer seconds ago.

When did the investigation conclude that? I still waiting on the reason not one officer had handcuffs and trying to put them on. One cop had mutilple times to put them on his hands, they were pretty much right there to grab, arm bar back and try for the other one. It looked like they had no intention, thus the suspensions and now investigation. I'm all for good cops, but bullies with badges gotta go...they make life miserable I would imagine for the good ones. You tube is full of bad cops and ones getting arrested themselves and sued. They got a tough job, sometimes a thankless job. But be a good one or get out.

 

[Destro]

I still waiting on the reason not one officer had handcuffs and trying to put them on.

Handcuffing 101. Day 1

Chapter 1, Page 1, Chapter Overview.

Officers should not attempt to handcuff suspects actively resisting and not under physical control.

 

[Creedmoor]

Simple. You're ignoring the context of the situation, which is that this was not a retaliatory beating, but an attempt to get him to comply so that they could restrain him safely, as he had just violently attacked an officer seconds ago

Do tell, how do you know the context of what each of the three officers were thinking?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I never said, and I quote "I don't think police should ever give anyone a beating".

Did I ever say you said that?

Sometimes force is surely necessary.

Yes.

I'm talking about the obscene assault delivered by the person slamming someone's face into the pavement in that manner. I'm not taking anything out of context.

You are. It could be an obscene assault, or it could be necessary force. The officers couldn't clearly see his hands; what if the guy had a weapon and was reaching for it? In that case, the head slam might not have been textbook behavior, but calling it "obscene assault" is more than a bit over the top.

I don't care what the person did before the video.

Okay, I take it back, now it sounds like you are saying "I don't think police should ever give anyone a beating". I can't keep up.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Do tell, how do you know the context of what each of the three officers were thinking?

When did the investigation conclude that? I still waiting on the reason not one officer had handcuffs and trying to put them on. One cop had mutilple times to put them on his hands, they were pretty much right there to grab, arm bar back and try for the other one. It looked like they had no intention, thus the suspensions and now investigation. I'm all for good cops, but bullies with badges gotta go...they make life miserable I would imagine for the good ones. You tube is full of bad cops and ones getting arrested themselves and sued. They got a tough job, sometimes a thankless job. But be a good one or get out.

I'm sorry; I misspoke, and started speaking as if the officers were justified, whereas I only meant to say that there could conceivably be circumstances in which they were justified. I edited my post above to hopefully fix this.

 

[Denny347]

This is 100% untrue. There are ample documentations of people being pulled over under false pretenses and being ticked/arrested for non existent violations up to and including police planting evidence. It is true that it is not legal to do so.

I don't know you and forgive me if I have misunderstood. If I haven't though, this is the kind of statement that wrecks credibility.

So exceedingly rare. Maybe a handful of these incidents in the millions of police/citizen interactions a year. Of course we are talking about TV style police misconduct and not an arrest with PC that turns out to be an innocent person. You're more likely to win the Powerball than get caught up in illegal police misconduct.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

So exceedingly rare. Maybe a handful of these incidents in the millions of police/citizen interactions a year. Of course we are talking about TV style police misconduct and not an arrest with PC that turns out to be an innocent person. You're more likely to win the Powerball than get caught up in illegal police misconduct.

Not to mention that if you do get caught up in illegal police misconduct, you might well end up richer that if you won the Powerball anyways, by the time you're done suing... (okay, okay, I'm just joking. Well, half joking, anyways. I think.)

 

[Denny347]

So, I'm not anything close to an expert on the law, but my impression was that, depending on the jurisdiction, speeding beyond a certain amount can count as reckless driving, and reckless driving can be a criminal violation that results in arrest; is that correct?

In some states there are defined speeds that are considered "reckless driving". In Indiana IC 9-21-8-52: Reckless driving is a person who operates a motor vehicle and who recklessly:

(1) drives at such an unreasonably high rate of speed or at such an unreasonably low rate of speed under the circumstances as to:

(A) endanger the safety or the property of others; or

(B) block the proper flow of traffic;

(2) passes another vehicle from the rear while on a slope or on a curve where vision is obstructed for a distance of less than five hundred (500) feet ahead;

(3) drives in and out of a line of traffic, except as otherwise permitted; or

(4) speeds up or refuses to give one-half (1/2) of the roadway to a driver overtaking and desiring to pass;

commits a Class C misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it causes bodily injury to a person.

 

[Denny347]

Not to mention that if you do get caught up in illegal police misconduct, you might well end up richer that if you won the Powerball anyways, by the time you're done suing... (okay, okay, I'm just joking. Well, half joking, anyways. I think.)

Hell, you could still get paid for me doing my job legally...sigh.

 

[Creedmoor]

In some states there are defined speeds that are considered "reckless driving". In Indiana IC 9-21-8-52: Reckless driving is a person who operates a motor vehicle and who recklessly:

(1) drives at such an unreasonably high rate of speed or at such an unreasonably low rate of speed under the circumstances as to:

(A) endanger the safety or the property of others; or

(B) block the proper flow of traffic;

(2) passes another vehicle from the rear while on a slope or on a curve where vision is obstructed for a distance of less than five hundred (500) feet ahead;

(3) drives in and out of a line of traffic, except as otherwise permitted; or

(4) speeds up or refuses to give one-half (1/2) of the roadway to a driver overtaking and desiring to pass;

commits a Class C misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it causes bodily injury to a person.

When I was a young man in Maryland, printed on the back of our paper DL was a statement driving 25mph over the speed limit earned not only a must appear ticket. You were suspended and the good officer left with your license.

 

[Epicenity]

Did I ever say you said that?

I literally quoted you.

 

[DragonGunner]

Handcuffing 101. Day 1

Chapter 1, Page 1, Chapter Overview.

Officers should not attempt to handcuff suspects actively resisting and not under physical control.

I guess they should of knocked him out cold? He’s on the ground with hands protecting his head from being smashed and 3 cops on top…. Just how much more control do you need.

 

[Cameramonkey]

MSN

So being attacked by a suspect removes all professionalism/restraint and gives you free reign to do whatever the hell you want to them?

Perp hits you? That's a beating
Getting spit on? That's a beating
throws a drink at you? Thats a beating
Calls your mom a whore? That's a beating.

I find the concept of an officer given a greenlight to abuse simply because they were battered or assaulted first very dubious.

 

[DadSmith]

All of these fears of law enforcement officers I don't get.
I've been pulled over several times in my life.
Seat belt fines because I kept forgetting to wear one in a truck after the federal government forced Indiana into enforcement of it or no federal funds. Every time the officer was professional and kind. I took my ticket to him to have a nice day and paid my fine.
I smiled was kind back to the officer or trooper and many times I was let off with warnings. I have faithfully worn my seat belt for many years now to do the fines and warnings of these officers.
I've only had about 4 speeding tickets in my life. Each time not one problem. I was given a warnings many more times than actually getting a ticket because I was polite and followed their instructions.

I don't get all the fear that goes into local law enforcement. I've never had a bad one.

Oh my son got his hand crushed in the splitter, I ran in got my car keys and took him to the hospital.
We didn't get out until around 2am.
On the way home a bunch of cars were turning ahead of me I passed them on the shoulder.

One of the cars speed up so I backed off and let him and a few others pass then pulled out when safe.
A state troopers seen it pulled me over and I had forgotten my wallet, and my hearing aid.
He didn't see the car speed up and said passing on the shoulder was legal in Indiana, but I needed to complete the pass not slow down because it was unsafe.
I told him about the car speeding up and he said I did the right thing then.
He ask for my license which I didn't have.
Luckily my son was there to scream at me and explained to him what happened and why I forgot everything. He ran my license plate and came back, and he smiled and said you all have a good night, and told my son to get well.
Totally professional, and kind.
I've seen state troopers changing people's tires around my area. Just saying that makes a great impression.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

So being attacked by a suspect removes all professionalism/restraint and gives you free reign to do whatever the hell you want to them?

Perp hits you? That's a beating
Getting spit on? That's a beating
throws a drink at you? Thats a beating
Calls your mom a whore? That's a beating.

I find the concept of an officer given a greenlight to abuse simply because they were battered or assaulted first very dubious.

Because it's utterly impossible to hold a logically consistent position that says that body slamming an officer head first into concrete warrants a bigger response than calling his mom names...

 

[gregr]

This is 100% untrue. There are ample documentations of people being pulled over under false pretenses and being ticked/arrested for non existent violations up to and including police planting evidence. It is true that it is not legal to do so.

I don't know you and forgive me if I have misunderstood. If I haven't though, this is the kind of statement that wrecks credibility.

I`d LOVE to hear about these "ample documentations"...because I`m calling BS on that crap.

When I need help I want the police to show up. Period.

I`ve been pulled over by police, and not once been beaten, shot, or even verbally abused. I showed the officer respect, and interestingly, they showed me respect. If you resist/fight/attack police, what in the world are you expecting to happen?

Yes, there are bad cops. Yes, there have been instances where law enforcement committed criminal behavior. Yes, those particular instances must be appropriately dealt with. I won`t live in a police state either, but that`s not what`s going on here. In today`s world, ALL law enforcement have been vilified, and that`s wrong. The VAST majority of law enforcement officers are sound, reasoned professionals, doing their very best to do a job under harrowing, difficult, and oftentimes, seedy circumstances. It`s open season on police officers today, and I wonder every day why they all haven`t quit, when not only is their every move scrutinized by cop haters from the safety of their homes, and too many on the streets actively seek to murder them. As far as I`m concerned, those constantly demonizing police are as bad as the hardened criminals on the streets who are committing the violent crime. Our law enforcement need and deserve our respect and support, and I DO respect and support them. Period.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Because it's utterly impossible to hold a logically consistent position that says that body slamming an officer head first into concrete warrants a bigger response than calling his mom names...

I was going to extremes. On both ends.

Yes, a body slam is extreme. Still doesnt give you the right to kick their butt before taking them downtown. Its called professionalism.

To be clear I dont think I have that professionalism for situations like this, so thats one reason I'm not wearing a badge. So dont think I'm saying I'm better than a cop. I know I'm not.

 

[JRR85]

Watching the video my take aways are this:
1. Assume everything is being recorded
2. Don’t resist or fight with cops - they usually have superior numbers
3. Full body worn camera video would be good to watch so we know the “whole” story
4. Depending on investigation cops are no different than any other job. It’s the 95/5 rule except cops have a lot more power/authority than your average burger flipper.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

So being attacked by a suspect removes all professionalism/restraint and gives you free reign to do whatever the hell you want to them?

Perp hits you? That's a beating
Getting spit on? That's a beating
throws a drink at you? Thats a beating
Calls your mom a whore? That's a beating.

I find the concept of an officer given a greenlight to abuse simply because they were battered or assaulted first very dubious.

Funny how beatings resulting from those things are socially acceptible if the beater isn't a cop.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I was going to extremes. On both ends.

Yes, a body slam is extreme. Still doesnt give you the right to kick their butt before taking them downtown. Its called professionalism.

To be clear I dont think I have that professionalism for situations like this, so thats one reason I'm not wearing a badge. So dont think I'm saying I'm better than a cop. I know I'm not.

I mean, if your only point is that doing X to a cop doesn't give them the right to give a retaliatory beating to you after you're already no longer a threat of any kind, no matter what X is, then sure, I see your point.

I just don't think we can tell for sure that this is what's going on here. The point about the perp body slamming a cop is relevant, not because it gives the cops a free ticket to do what they want to him, but because it sets the stakes for the situation. Guy face down on the ground curled up may not seem like a threat, but if he's just shown willingness to get physically violent, and has implied that he has a knife, and could well be reaching for it at this very moment to take one last swipe at the cop's jugular before he gets cuffed, well, then I don't really have a problem with anything, even the head-bashing. And the guy can go back and forth between looking like he's shielding his head to looking like he's reaching for something underneath him from one second to the next, so no, I don't expect the cops to keep up with that at superhuman speed, and if he gets a few solid ones landed on him even when they technically shouldn't have been according to the book, I'm just not that concerned about it (again, assuming that the accounts of him attacking and threatening cops are accurate.)