"Pride" month is upon us...

[Keith_Indy]

Just the fact that this conversation can happen on here, that people feel like they have to argue and defend against a position put forward by someone who can’t see logically at all, can’t see the forest for the trees, makes me feel hopeless.
But then, I know to not trust my feelings.

Democracy is supposed to be messy, full of tension and debate.

That we can have any discussion about anything gives me hope.

 

[jamil]

Yes, science has made new discoveries in that regard.

Not any discoveries that would dispute what I've said.

Serious question: Are women mentally identical to men?

No.

If not which part of their body makes them that way? Or are men just women with penises?

Well, I think we've discussed that already. I said that zygotes already have the chromosomes for what sex they will develop into. There are studies which that males (xy) get hormones that cause them to develop physically as a male, including brain development. Females (xx) get hormones that cause them to develop female parts including brain development.

It's not the case that men are just women with penises, because their chromosomes have already determined the sex. Men are human males. Women are human females. This is a hard binary (other than the defects caused during development, which we call intersex)

Mentally, it looks like something (rarely) gets mixed up where the person feels gender dysphoria. Now if you can find some real ass science that seriously challenges the science that has established the understanding of male and female physiological, and mental differences between men and women, I'd be willing to entertain a discussion of that.

 

[Shadow01]

Considering the absolute hell and chaos those people have brought to this country and society at large, it seems like a justified fear if anything.

Hell, if you objected to an LGBT sensitivity training course at your job because you just want to be left alone, you'd be fired. That's the kind of world these people force on us.

Is it possible to fail this training and request to retake the training until you are able to grasp the intent of the training and pass it as long as it might take to succeed?

 

[Epicenity]

Of the several murders of trans people I’ve read about, they mostly seem to occur when a man gets sex from a “female” that still has a penis.

No, suddenly discovering that “she was a he” shouldn’t be an excuse for murder, but subterfuge is going to lead to anger and negative consequences. That’s the risk THEY take when they hookup with straight men and falsely claim they are women.

You can’t change your genetics, you can’t change your sex. You can only mutilate yourself to pass visually.

If you are also including suicide in your “killing trans kids” then the “science “ behind that is inconclusive.

Running experimental hormone treatments on children is unconscionable, puts one squarely beside Dr. Mengele.

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

 

[actaeon277]

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

Well, then if they can change their gender at 8, I guess alcohol, guns, and military service are okay then.

Or, I thought that we couldn't hold children accountable was because of their brain not being fully formed.

 

[Epicenity]

Now if you can find some real ass science that seriously challenges the science that has established the understanding of male and female physiological, and mental differences between men and women, I'd be willing to entertain a discussion of that.

It's available as close as your nearest search engine.

Thanks for talking, this is getting circular and repetitive. so I'm going to wish you a good evening.

 

[BigRed]

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

That's some funny **** right there!

 

[Keith_Indy]

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

Right, because that was my argument.

You say you’re coming at this in good faith, I don’t see it.

 

[Tombs]

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

I'm sorry Doctor Mengele, that isn't medical care. It's sadistic child experimentation.

 

[Epicenity]

Right, because that was my argument.

You say you’re coming at this in good faith, I don’t see it.

You said some tired rubbish about NAZIs.

Honestly, as an outsider the only difference I see between Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam, is the word they use for God.

I'm not talking about normal, non radicalized religious people.

 

[Keith_Indy]

You said some tired rubbish about NAZIs.

Honestly, as an outsider the only difference I see between Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam, is the word they use for God.

I'm not talking about normal, non radicalized religious people.

So, experimenting on impressionable children with hormones and drugs is ok with you. Got ya.

 

[jamil]

". I've seen peer reviewed studies that show many people who think they're trans at a young age, by the time they're adults,"

This does not invalidate the actual transgender children but it is often used as an excuse to deny them the help that they need.

Well, sure. Some of those are transgender. Some of those are just gay, or even people who grow out of their dysphoria. So if they're encouraged to get "gender-affirming" medical intervention, they'll be ruined. And why is it that you think "gender-affirming" medical intervention is THE right treatment. Studies have shone that the suicide rate isn't much different before or after transition. This is because these people have a problem that we don't know how to solve. Transitioning seems to help some people. They become well adapted after.

I think using puberty blockers as a way to solve the problem is insane. I think these kids are being taken advantage of by ideologues and medical professionals who have made a lucrative market for themselves.

"This is an example of biased news. They characterize this as a ban on medical care for transgender youth. Its not. It prohibits gender affirming medical interventions."

That IS denying needed medical care.

Well. c'mon. Don't you think that honest reporting would just say the truth, that the bill bans puberty blockers? And is it really needed? Puberty blockers are supposed to delay the physical changes that might make people with gender dysphoria uncomfortable, until they can transition. The problem is that it's not as reversible as is claimed and the drugs are dangerous. Also, because the genitals don't develop properly, by the time they can get transitioning surgery, there's are a lot more complications caused by the puberty blockers.

From the right, it looks like far left activists are encouraging these kids to take these steps. And the laws are written to protect these kids. The term denying needed medical care, as applied to trans kids, can't be differentiated from denying them medical care for a broken arm. No one is killing these people. No one is denying them needed care. Puberty blockers is not "needed care."

"So that's not the same thing. You've used language like "killing trans" and such."

375 Transgender People Murdered In 2021-‘Deadliest Year’ Since Records Began

The annual global list of gender diverse people murdered is released for Transgender Day of Remembrance, held on November 20 each year.

www.forbes.com

You said something to the effect of passing laws that are killing trans. Well, that's nonsense. Murder is illegal. Period. There are no carve-outs in any states' laws that make it okay to kill trans but not anyone else. There are no laws proposed or pending in any state that makes it legal to kill trans.

Also, the murder rate was higher across the board. It is horrible that anyone is murdered. But, those murders did not have anything to do with laws created by people on the right. And also, I think you'd have to do a case by case study to determine if the murders had anything to do with right wing.

"Sex is as clear cut as it could possibly be. "

This in incorrect.

Well, if you think that's incorrect, maybe you have some objective source you could share that displaces current science. I'm not aware of anything but I encourage you to post what you have.

 

[BigRed]

So, experimenting on impressionable children with hormones and drugs is ok with you. Got ya.

Only if they are twins.

 

[jamil]

Sounds like you are picking and choosing to suit your need. My first sentence was right out of the bible. How loving is a god that created cancer, and lets children die of it. Where is the mercy in rape, torture and murder? Is he unwilling to stop it, or unable?

I'll leave the religious side of this to you and them. But aren't you picking and choosing to suit your need? A primarily ideological world view isn't really any different from a religious world view.

 

[HoughMade]

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

"Medical care". How very "newspeak".

 

[HoosierLife]

Sounds like you are picking and choosing to suit your need. My first sentence was right out of the bible. How loving is a god that created cancer, and lets children die of it. Where is the mercy in rape, torture and murder? Is he unwilling to stop it, or unable?

I think you were the one to pick the most difficult topics you could find.

Look, I’m not God and I cant answer everything.

I know we’re sinners and sinners create chaos.

Sin’s result is death. God paid the price for this sin in Jesus Christ.

He will right every wrong one day.

Everyone will be a believer one day.

 

[HoughMade]

Everyone wants free will and no negative consequences from free will.

 

[jamil]

Denying children medical care because of religious fanaticism puts one squarely in the same camp with radical Islam.

Again, you're classifying it as medical care. It's not actually medical care. I would classify it as a controversial and insufficiently tested alternative treatment for gender dysphoria in youth.

At this point, I'm not sure that we're getting anywhere. You're getting testy with other posters. And they're getting testy with you. This isn't going to lead anywhere good. You'll probably get angry and say intentionally something that gets you banned so you can go down in glory having said your peace. It's just the way these things go.

You seem to think that it's the right that is full of ****. I think everyone is at least a little full of ****. But if you want to limit the **** you're full of, ask yourself if you are full of ****, and then answer honestly.

Is it really the truth that the right is "denying children medical care". Go seek that answer. Find out if you're full of ****.

Is it really the truth that it's because of religious fanaticism? Go seek that answer. Dare to tell yourself the truth that you find. Are you full of ****? That's for you to answer.

Hint. I have a very similar view of the trans issue as the people posting here, though I think I may be more accepting of those who truly have gender dysphoria than some. I'm not religious. I have no god to tell me that men are human males and that women are human females. I believe the science on that. It's pretty solid.

 

[jamil]

Everyone wants free will and no negative consequences from free will.

What are you talking about man. I'm wearing my free will around my waist. What consequences are there to th...wait. Nevermind.

 

[Robert Richardson]

You said some tired rubbish about NAZIs.

Honestly, as an outsider the only difference I see between Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Islam, is the word they use for God.

I'm not talking about normal, non radicalized religious people.

As per the above statement, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.