Holcomb vetoes house bill 1041 which would have stopped guys who pretend they are girls from playing girls sports in school

[Hkindiana]

Although these women have not asked for their circumstances, they have a choice to make. Stand up, or give in. It will reflect on their character. I guess it’s time for them to show they are adults and that they are willing to make adult decisions.

In which grade do K-12 students become “adults”? Certainly not K-?

 

[KLB]

This topic is really hitting home with a lot of women. I know one that cried election night when Hillary lost, who has pretty much totally flipped because of this topic.

 

[Leadeye]

So what happens to the women soccer players who fight for more money and then get replaced by men? I find it amusing that back in the day the East Germans tried hard to turn biological women into men to compete in sports and now the game is to turn the men into women.

 

[eldirector]

Anything a woman can do, a man can do better. So much for woman's lib, feminism, equality, etc.... AMAZING how quickly the libs flipped the script.

 

[Ironhippie]

I got into a monster Twitter war (I know, it's the 7th circle of hell) with someone who was either trans or a rabid trans ally. I simply indicated that it was not fair to devalue biological women (shouldn't have to preface woman or women with the term biological, but here we are) and I was particularly talking about sports. I was called bigoted, ignorant, hateful, transphobic, a hypocrite, a Trumpist, and my personal favorite, a woman hater. I told this person that prior to walking away from the Democratic plantation, I had never experienced the vitriol this a-hole was spewing at me. He kept screaming about trans women are women, and that if you disagreed, you were a bigot. There is absolutely no reasoning with these types of people.

They're the same people who scream " YOU MUST BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!!!"

 

[bwframe]

I was hoping to find it in my text apps gif search.

Please report back if you find it. I want it there too.

 

[Hkindiana]

Please report back if you find it. I want it there too.

Send it to yourself via e-mail. Open the e-mail on your phone and “save” the picture to your photos. Then, when you send a text, click on “add photo” and add it. Easy pesy.

 

[akethan]

Let the left eat themselves.

 

[rebase]

Unpopular opinion warning

I have multiple friends who have transitioned their gender identity. My perspective on the issue has changed with time and conversations with these people who I consider good friends. I hope that those who supported this bill can gain some

Just like with with the gay marriage issue 15 years ago, or any law left or right really, I can only recommend anyone disagreeing with Holcomb's veto to have a conversation with someone who would be negatively affected by the law to have more data to more fully shape your opinion.

A pretty dark stat is that: "56% percent of trans teens have reported a previous suicide attempt and 86% reported suicidality." - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ (Also important to note are the reasons mentioned for the suicidality: "School belonging, emotional neglect by family, and internalized self-stigma".) I believe this bill would have had an effect on every one of the 3 reasons.

Please please please: Talk to people who are trans (or just different from you in general) and gain a better understanding of what they have gone thru.

"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members" - Some dude in a robe

On the legal aspects of the bill itself, the 4th and 5th paragraphs of Holcomb's veto are cleanest arguments for me. His veto reduced legal liability on the state. And there were not found to be actually any issues of unfairness in high school sports as much as the media likes to focus on Lia Thomas.

In any case I thought these days we all agreed to give kids participation trophies instead.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I don't care to get into an online war with anyone here. I have multiple friends who have transitioned their gender identity. My perspective on the issue has changed with time and conversations with these people who I consider good friends.

Just like with with the gay marriage issue 15 years ago, I'd recommend anyone angry by his veto to have a conversation with someone who would be negatively affected by the law to have more data to shape an opinion.

On the legal aspects of the bill itself, the 4th and 5th paragraphs of Holcomb's veto are cleanest arguments for me. His veto reduced legal liability on the state. And there were not found to be actually any issues in high school sports as much as the media likes to focus on Lia Thomas.

In any case I thought these days we were giving kids participation trophies anyways.

First off, I am sorry to hear that about your friends. I don't harbor any hatred or anger towards them, but I do have very deep concern for them; they are living in a delusion, and those around them have sadly, instead of helping them, done them great harm by convincing them that if they mutilate their bodies, or change their dress, their mannerisms, or whatever else about them, in order to conform with this delusion, that this will bring them happiness. I'm sorry if that sounds hateful, but it is simply recognizing reality. I hope and pray that some day you will have the courage to recognize the truth of their situation, and hopefully do your best to help them out of it (unless you have done so already, but I don't gather that from the tone of your post.)

As for the rest of your post, I'm a bit confused. You ask us to have a conversation with people who would be negatively impacted by this law (implying that there ARE boys in Indiana who suffer from gender confusion and currently want to play on girls' teams) but then say that you agree with Holcomb that there AREN'T currently any issues with this happening in HS sports in Indiana. Which one is it?

 

[Robert Richardson]

Yep, you right, unpopular!!!!!!!
Boys are boys and girls are girls.
I'll just leave it at that.

 

[rebase]

First off, I am sorry to hear that about your friends. I don't harbor any hatred or anger towards them, but I do have very deep concern for them; they are living in a delusion,

Not true, they are living their true identity after struggling with it for 20+ years

and those around them have sadly, instead of helping them,

Their friends (including me) didnt help them one bit, they supported them in who they are as a person, and human being

done them great harm by convincing them that if they mutilate their bodies,

I dont really care what other people do to their bodies. I don't care if people get tatoos, piercings, enlarge their breasts, have botox. And I certainly don't care what bathroom they use. Though if they want to send me a pic of their massive, long, shiny, bowel movement, I'll have a laugh.

or change their dress, their mannerisms, or whatever else about them,

A big part of gender identity and human socialization in general is tied into the way people dress, speak and act. A banker with an Italian suit and British accent is going to have a very different background and life experiences than a kentucky farmer wearing levis & redwings. And both would be uncomfortable wearing the other's outfit, accent, and mannerisms. The way you dress, act and speak is a function of your identity as a human. Gender is a facet of this identity.

in order to conform with this delusion, that this will bring them happiness.

Not a delusion, its their identity. The term you are looking for is gender dysphoria. Delusion has a negative connotation that you don't believe their identity is real. Dysphoria is the medical term for the mismatch between ones biological sex and ones gender identity.

I'm sorry if that sounds hateful, but it is simply recognizing reality.

Its your reality, not theirs. You can't force the banker to wear levis, nor would you force the farmer into italian silk. Its their life, and their way of living makes them happy. I leave them alone.

I hope and pray that some day you will have the courage to recognize the truth of their situation, and hopefully do your best to help them out of it (unless you have done so already, but I don't gather that from the tone of your post.)

I fully support them in their journey to coming out. I hope you have a change to speak with a person who is trans to understand the incredibly difficult journey it took to make the hard decisions they made and face the discrimination and hate they they do on a daily basis just for living their truth in who they are. The banker has a choice of where to live. The trans teen doesn't have that luxury.

As for the rest of your post, I'm a bit confused. You ask us to have a conversation with people who would be negatively impacted by this law (implying that there ARE boys in Indiana who suffer from gender confusion and currently want to play on girls' teams) but then say that you agree with Holcomb that there AREN'T currently any issues with this happening in HS sports in Indiana. Which one is it?

Post edited for clarity.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

A pretty dark stat is that: "56% percent of trans teens have reported a previous suicide attempt and 86% reported suicidality." - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ (Also important to note are the reasons mentioned for the suicidality: "School belonging, emotional neglect by family, and internalized self-stigma".) I believe this bill would have had an effect on every one of the 3 reasons.

Please please please: Talk to people who are trans (or just different from you in general) and gain a better understanding of what they have gone thru.

Okay, so 50 years ago 99.9% of people had no idea that "transgender" even existed. If being "transgender" was really an inherent thing, and not a fad foisted on so many children by society, than why didn't we see dramatically higher suicide rates back then among young people, when there was practically zero tolerance for that sort of thing? Why have suicide rates skyrocketed among young people at the same time that sexual perversion has become the norm in our schools and in mainstream culture?

Can we not put two and two together here?

And yes, I've talked to MANY people who have very different opinions than me, both in my own family, and through being involved in sidewalk advocacy programs at our local abortion clinic. Seeing how they have bought into the self-centered and perverted lies that the sexual revolution brought to the mainstream in our culture, and how hurt and wounded so many of them have ended up as a result, has done more to convince me of the truth and validity of traditional sexual morals than anything else in my life.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Not true, they are living their true identity after struggling with it for 20+ years


Their friends (including me) didnt help them one bit, they supported them in who they are as a person, and human being


I dont really care what other people do to their bodies. I don't care if people get tatoos, piercings, enlarge their breasts, have botox. And I certainly don't care what bathroom they use. Though if they want to send me a pic of their massive, long, shiny, bowel movement, I'll have a laugh.


A big part of gender identity and human socialization in general is tied into the way people dress, speak and act. A banker with an Italian suit and British accent is going to have a very different background and life experiences than a kentucky farmer wearing levis & redwings. And both would be uncomfortable wearing the other's outfit, accent, and mannerisms. The way you dress, act and speak is a function of your identity as a human. Gender is a facet of this identity.


Not a delusion, its their identity. The term you are looking for is gender dysphoria. Delusion has a negative connotation that you don't believe their identity is real. Dysphoria is the medical term for the mismatch between ones biological sex and ones gender identity.


Its your reality, not theirs. You can't force the banker to wear levis, nor would you force the farmer into italian silk. Its their life, and their way of living makes them happy. I leave them alone.


I fully support them in their journey to coming out. I hope you have a change to speak with a person who is trans to understand the incredibly difficult journey it took to make the hard decisions they made and face the discrimination and hate they they do on a daily basis just for living their truth in who they are. The banker has a choice of where to live. The trans teen doesn't have that luxury.


Post edited for clarity.

It all comes down to what you believe "truth" is. In your post the one phrase that stood out to me the most is when you said "your reality"

Let me be clear, I don't have a reality, you don't have a reality, nobody owns reality, reality means what is TRUE, what actually is the case. Your beliefs either match reality, and are true, or don't match reality, and are false. If we can't agree on that, how can we even have a meaningful discussion?

 

[JettaKnight]

Tell 'em "You're born a bleeder or a seeder. You can stem the flow, so to speak, but switching the handles will never make hot water come out the cold side."

I've never heard that before today, and I now long for yesterday.


FWIW, I've learned the PC terms are "vulva owner" and "penis owner".

 

[edporch]

I got into a monster Twitter war (I know, it's the 7th circle of hell) with someone who was either trans or a rabid trans ally. I simply indicated that it was not fair to devalue biological women (shouldn't have to preface woman or women with the term biological, but here we are) and I was particularly talking about sports. I was called bigoted, ignorant, hateful, transphobic, a hypocrite, a Trumpist, and my personal favorite, a woman hater. I told this person that prior to walking away from the Democratic plantation, I had never experienced the vitriol this a-hole was spewing at me. He kept screaming about trans women are women, and that if you disagreed, you were a bigot. There is absolutely no reasoning with these types of people.

Yet the reality is, it's medically impossible to change a man into a woman, or a woman into a man.
These people do have a mental problem and should get mental help.
OR I think in the case of athletes, it's a way of mediocre men to game the system by beating up on women so they can "win".

In the case of this so-called "Lia" Thomas, I wouldn't be surprised if after he makes financial gain from this and things die down, he'll just go back to being a guy and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Leadeye]

I don't think that the present issue involves "choice" or discrimination against it, that's up to the individual. In sports there are rules which define the sport. In wrestling, something I did in school, you didn't match up 98 pounders against 180 pounders, it simply wasn't much of a contest and the rules of the sport take this into account. The rules made the contest more even, but you still saw differences in body types that made a match interesting, short compact people versus longer limbed thinner people.

At the end of the day men are going to over power women, it just the way biology works. When you redefine women's sports to take into account transgender people, the biological women will be eclipsed. On the intermural soccer team this doesn't mean much, but at higher level, record setting, or paid athletics it will mean everything. Soon there just won't be any biological women at these levels and if that's OK with women athletes, that's their business. I am reminded of that angry woman soccer player with the purple hair that fought so hard for higher pay and how she will feel when she's pushed out of her job by a transgendered man.

 

[Shadow01]

In which grade do K-12 students become “adults”? Certainly not K-?

Since they drive at 16, that would be the age I would use, but I was speaking more of the recent ncaa debacle even though the legislation is for lower schools. Parents need to stop this by refusing participation with their children.

 

[printcraft]

 

[tsm]

Yet the reality is, it's medically impossible to change a man into a woman, or a woman into a man.
These people do have a mental problem and should get mental help.

Correct. When and if technology advances sufficiently to allow star trek like transporters to switch all of a person’s XX chromosomes to XY, or vice versa, then you might have a scientific argument for an actual gender identity switch. Until then, it’s impossible and seems similar to actors and actresses pretending to be something they’re not, IMHO. Presumably actors don’t actually believe they’re what they’re pretending to be, which is why we don’t say they have mental problems!