City to install cameras that record license plate numbers

[BehindBlueI's]

Actually I'm still curious. I also wonder if crimes committed with stolen vehicles end up with the vehicle getting ditched or do they tend to keep driving them afterwards?

Depends. ATM thefts tend to steal a fresh truck each time since damage and they know it's on camera. When the pharmacy robberies were going, they kept them since they parked a few blocks away or had a driver and knew pharmacies had no outside cameras.

The software that comes with these things lets you search things like a plate that was near multiple robberies. That may be what ties a stolen car recovery to a robbery/shooting and evidence from the recovered car may never be associated with the robbery otherwise.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Depends. ATM thefts tend to steal a fresh truck each time since damage and they know it's on camera. When the pharmacy robberies were going, they kept them since they parked a few blocks away or had a driver and knew pharmacies had no outside cameras.

The software that comes with these things lets you search things like a plate that was near multiple robberies. That may be what ties a stolen car recovery to a robbery/shooting and evidence from the recovered car may never be associated with the robbery otherwise.

SOME of the pharmacies had outside cameras. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Jeepster48439]

Does IN/KY actually ever send bills for the bridge tolls?

The wife and I have one(1) EZ Pass but every so often we drive two(2) cars over the bridge when travelling to visit the hillbilly family. Have never gotten a bill in the mail. Bad plate read, lazy gov't employee, poorly programmed software, so small they don't care?

Just had a revelation. We are usually driving "convoy" style so maybe it picks up the EZ Pass tagged to both license plates and bills us twice?

Been across that bridge on an occassion when I forgot my EZ-Pass. Took awhile, but the toll charge finally showed up on my EZ-Pass account. Same thing happened when I took the FL toll road without my EZ-Pass.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I've seen hats sold with IR LEDs mounted in the brim to stop cameras with facial recognition and such. It's supposed to work by overloading the camera, same as too much flash would mess up old film cameras. I wonder if that would work for the license plate readers? Mount some high intensity IR LEDs with the regular plate light. Heck that almost sounds like a good business venture, make and sell replacement plate lights that include said LEDs. Or perhaps a ready made plug in that goes between the socket and the bulb.

Baseball cap IR LEDs provide "light mask" against video recording

Thanks to Steve Bush, our Technical Editor, for flagging this one. It's a How To guide for making an "invisibility mask" for video cameras.

www.electronicsweekly.com

Actually, see current/recent court rulings.

You can NOT use a home camera to directly observe neighbors, and you CAN have law enforcement do something about it under the criminal code,
And you can sue the pants off the offender.

Now, the exemption to home cameras is safety & security, you CAN point your cameras at your own property, and public areas,
If you catch part of someone's yard, driveway, etc that's also legal.

What you CAN NOT do (without a warrant) is look into someone's home, record someone's movements "IN TOTAL" (legal wording), or conduct survalience on private property you don't own.

In the last case it was fussy neighbors with cameras on poles aimed into the neighbors fenced in back yard,
so Im guessing here,
The back yard was covered 'In Total', or at least enough for the judge to see what was going on with those households...

You can completely drop the preamble to the constitution, that's all BS when talking about video in public areas.
Smoke & Mirrors to deflect/distract.

There is no one STOPPING you from doing anything when video is in common/public areas, it's simple to identify someone breaking the laws.

Have a cite for any of this?

He doesn’t sound like a very good officer. There are a number of indicators of criminal activity to look for that will boost the ratio of arrests and stops. If he’s just out stopping every violation hoping to get lucky, he’s doing it wrong.

I was pulled over by an officer who it appeared was pulling over everyone he could regardless of violation looking for DUIs. In a span of well less than 10 minutes he stopped 3 vehicles, a guy I worked with who left work right before me, me, and a car that went by when he had me stopped. Conversation with me was "where are you coming from?" "work" "where's that?" "the same place the last guy you had pulled over" "so you haven't been drinking(in a disappointed voice" "nope" about that time a car came down the road in the opposite direction, he tossed my DL and registration through the window into my lap, ran back to his car, pulled a u-turn and stopped them.

He stopped the guy I worked with for "speeding", he wasn't. Stopped me for having a light out, all were working when I got home, no idea on the last guy.

 

[Leadeye]

Depends. Lately the cars are being used in multiple crimes.

Maybe there's as a shortage of stolen cars like the shortage of used cars. Criminals are being more cost efficient by increasing the number of crimes per car.

 

[eldirector]

If the above ballcap works, make your own license plate lamps:

Bolt Beam 5mm LED Light

Create stunning accents lighting while increasing visibility with the 5B series Bolt Beam 5mm LED light. Produces an ultra-focus 15° beam that is perfect for illuminating door handles and locks. Select from 6 color choices and 2 finished to add the perfect highlights to motorcycles, cars, and...

www.superbrightleds.com

IR Infrared LED 5mm (4 pack)

A pack of four 5mm infrared LEDs for use with a variety of robot projects.

www.bananarobotics.com

 

[Ingomike]

Really, if you our a loved one was robbed/raped/killed would you think "Well let them go because the video footage was too invasive to their privacy"?

Don

Because I believe the 4th amendment so precious I do not believe that video footage should exist. We solved crimes before we as a society got lazy and traded away our rights to anonymity for security. We live in an age where computer power is cheaper and more powerful than ever. The thumb is coming…

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Because I believe the 4th amendment so precious I do not believe that video footage should exist. We solved crimes before we as a society got lazy and traded away our rights to anonymity for security. We live in an age where computer power is cheaper and more powerful than ever. The thumb is coming…

I find it curious you believe you have an expectation of privacy in public spaces or on someone else's property to the point you believe a technology shouldn't be allowed by those who wish to use it. Maybe have your HOA ban it.

We solved crime thing sounds JH's statement we circumnavigated the globe before internal combustion.

 

[jwamplerusa]

The thumb is coming…

Ehh, no, the thumb is here. It is now just a matter of how hard it is pressing on you. For my personal taste, the pressure is already to high.

After reading though the Snowden revelations, and the AT&T "special room" allegations, I became much more amenable to realizing there are elements of the U.S. Federal Government which are simply out of control and operating FAR outside the intent and words of the Constitution.

Things which were done to President Trump, and more recently to Tucker Carlson, only serve to reinforce that there are parts of the Federal Bureaucracy which are simply out of control and cannot be reformed, only eliminated.

 

[qwerty]

It seems there may be some blurring of the lines between what would be "red-light cameras" or "speed cameras" both of which are not allowed in Indiana as far as I know. Indiana requires a "good faith belief" which could not be attributed to a camera. Maybe some of the "old-timers" remember when the bus drivers could file a stop arm violation and you could write a ticket for that, I looked recently and could not find that provision in code anymore to allow that, but if someone finds it, let me know!

Regarding License Plate Recognition (LPR) cameras, I have mixed reviews on them. We have recovered stolen vehicles, solved bank robberies and other property crimes, but there is a fine line between public and private that is walked. There is one big player in this technology, another that is up and coming, and others that do it but just do not have the market share to really compete.

In reading the article it mentions the 30-day retention, so I am guessing it is the Flock Safety system. As a technical guy, I find it the most appealing as it was truly a company that started with a guy using an old cell phone to find out who was doing some vandalism in his neighborhood. It has a good balance between being a great tool and respecting privacy by killing old data. The price tag is much more manageable as well.

The big player is Vigilant who was acquired by Motorola. They are becoming a behemoth in the public safety sector and should be watched carefully. They have amazing investigative tools with their LPR system and have helped Lake County deter a ton of crimes, arrest a lot of criminals, and solve a lot of other crimes that would have otherwise gone unsolved. Although municipal LPR is one way of collecting data, most of the data is garnered by private systems. Banks fund the installation and operation of cameras on recovery vehicles, parking lots, and even hire out individuals to just drive around collecting data to aid in repossession, so even if the municipalities were not involved, a majority of the data is still being collected privately.

 

[Sitcomdad83]

Slowly and silently were becoming Europe. Don't like this a bit.

 

[Ingomike]

It seems there may be some blurring of the lines between what would be "red-light cameras" or "speed cameras" both of which are not allowed in Indiana as far as I know. Indiana requires a "good faith belief" which could not be attributed to a camera. Maybe some of the "old-timers" remember when the bus drivers could file a stop arm violation and you could write a ticket for that, I looked recently and could not find that provision in code anymore to allow that, but if someone finds it, let me know!

Regarding License Plate Recognition (LPR) cameras, I have mixed reviews on them. We have recovered stolen vehicles, solved bank robberies and other property crimes, but there is a fine line between public and private that is walked. There is one big player in this technology, another that is up and coming, and others that do it but just do not have the market share to really compete.

In reading the article it mentions the 30-day retention, so I am guessing it is the Flock Safety system. As a technical guy, I find it the most appealing as it was truly a company that started with a guy using an old cell phone to find out who was doing some vandalism in his neighborhood. It has a good balance between being a great tool and respecting privacy by killing old data. The price tag is much more manageable as well.

The big player is Vigilant who was acquired by Motorola. They are becoming a behemoth in the public safety sector and should be watched carefully. They have amazing investigative tools with their LPR system and have helped Lake County deter a ton of crimes, arrest a lot of criminals, and solve a lot of other crimes that would have otherwise gone unsolved. Although municipal LPR is one way of collecting data, most of the data is garnered by private systems. Banks fund the installation and operation of cameras on recovery vehicles, parking lots, and even hire out individuals to just drive around collecting data to aid in repossession, so even if the municipalities were not involved, a majority of the data is still being collected privately.

Isn’t this whole discussion a crazy juxtaposition of society right now. Here we have a discussion where some, for its law enforcement value likes the license plate scanners and over in another thread we are discussing how when those criminals are caught they are just let go. You can’t make up the crazy world we live in…

 

[Ingomike]

I find it curious you believe you have an expectation of privacy in public spaces or on someone else's property to the point you believe a technology shouldn't be allowed by those who wish to use it. Maybe have your HOA ban it.

We solved crime thing sounds JH's statement we circumnavigated the globe before internal combustion.

I do not believe in 2022 the government, under the laws and court approvals from 50+ years ago, should be using high power computers to surveil the general population in a way that 50 years ago would have required millions of officers to affect the same outcome.

We have not had, to my knowledge, a societal discussion, as we are having here, as to what limits are acceptable. They are using permissions of the orchard owner to pick a few apples when all they had was a bucket, now they have a truck. I see the purpose of threads like this as not for smarty pants to tell us the law, but rather for citizens to b***h about those laws, their inadequacy and discuss what those laws should be…

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I do not believe in 2022 the government, under the laws and court approvals from 50+ years ago, should be using high power computers to surveil the general population in a way that 50 years ago would have required millions of officers to affect the same outcome.

We have not had, to my knowledge, a societal discussion, as we are having here, as to what limits are acceptable. They are using permissions of the orchard owner to pick a few apples when all they had was a bucket, now they have a truck. I see the purpose of threads like this as not for smarty pants to tell us the law, but rather for citizens to b***h about those laws, their inadequacy and discuss what those laws should be…

Well, I'm sure the notion that video technology shouldn't exist will go far. Write your congressman today.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, I'm sure the notion that video technology shouldn't exist will go far. Write your congressman today.

So you are all chill about living your entire life with no privacy at all?

Some of us don’t want to go quietly into that dark night…

 

[KittySlayer]

Well, I'm sure the notion that video technology shouldn't exist will go far. Write your congressman today.

Well of course not. Look at the porn industry before video technology.

Maybe all those unemployed coal miners that can't learn to code can be trained to paint license plate numbers as cars drive through intersections.

 

[Ingomike]

Well, I'm sure the notion that video technology shouldn't exist will go far. Write your congressman today.

I think a well crafted privacy rights bill could gain a lot of support…

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Maybe there's as a shortage of stolen cars like the shortage of used cars. Criminals are being more cost efficient by increasing the number of crimes per car.

Lol, I never looked at it from that perspective. Learn something new every day!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

So you are all chill about living your entire life with no privacy at all?

Some of us don’t want to go quietly into that dark night…

I doubt there's any point in us discussing it further since you've already assigned me such a ridiculous position. Who would equate not minding people recording me entering THEIR store to having no privacy at all. I understand the difference between "public place" and "private place". Additionally I understand "my property" and "not my property".

 

[KLB]

I think a well crafted privacy rights bill could gain a lot of support…

Among those in Congress? Probably not.

At a state level, possibly. The hurdle I see would be the law enforcement community would probably oppose losing the tools they have. That would give a lot of state Reps and Senators the excuse they would need to oppose it.

Among the people, one would hope.