Enlightening FBI Gun statistics from our good friends at JPFO

[gregr]

Interesting information from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership:

FBI Statistics, Firearms 2019

America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership

jpfo.org

 

[rlfrye]

2019 followed previous years. Work on the mental health crisis, and lock up the gang banger doesnt win enough votes, though.

 

[DadSmith]

Interesting information from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership:

FBI Statistics, Firearms 2019

America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership

jpfo.org

Wow 73% of murders with a firearm is gang related.

So we crack down on gangs it should start dropping the firearm murder rate tremendously.

 

[GIJEW]

I recall Gary Kleck writing that the defensive use stats in the FBI UCR are completely unreliable because they list the way the local PD lists the shooting at the time of arrest--if the info even gets sent to them--they never get, or pursue, follow up info on the final disposition of the cases.
[Point Blank. Crime and Violence in the US; Gary Kleck; 1989(?)]
John Lott probably has said something about this too.
Seriously, do any of you believe that there are more "accidental" firearms deaths than from defensive shootings? IIRC Kleck's estimate of justifiable homocides was about 15%

In something similar, I recall John Lott from the Crime Prevention Research Center, reporting that about 95% of all homocides were in inner cities.

 

[CampingJosh]

Wow 73% of murders with a firearm is gang related.

So we crack down on gangs it should start dropping the firearm murder rate tremendously.

Or end the failed Prohibition 2.0 that hasn't been working for these last 50+ years. It is the cause of a huge proportion of the violence in our country, is the leading factor in "the land of the free" having the highest incarceration rate in the world, is crazy expensive, and there's little evidence that it actually makes us any more secure.

I'm not in favor of drug use, but at some point we have to admit that the war on drugs has been more destructive than the problem it was intended to solve.

 

[Tombs]

Or end the failed Prohibition 2.0 that hasn't been working for these last 50+ years. It is the cause of a huge proportion of the violence in our country, is the leading factor in "the land of the free" having the highest incarceration rate in the world, is crazy expensive, and there's little evidence that it actually makes us any more secure.

I'm not in favor of drug use, but at some point we have to admit that the war on drugs has been more destructive than the problem it was intended to solve.

Gangs =/= Drugs

Catch and release policy for violent gang members, in massive disastrous cities, is the reason for all of this nonsense. If they have gang affiliation, throw away the keys and never let them see the light of day again.

Even in prison, smart convicts will NEVER join a gang.

 

[DadSmith]

Or end the failed Prohibition 2.0 that hasn't been working for these last 50+ years. It is the cause of a huge proportion of the violence in our country, is the leading factor in "the land of the free" having the highest incarceration rate in the world, is crazy expensive, and there's little evidence that it actually makes us any more secure.

I'm not in favor of drug use, but at some point we have to admit that the war on drugs has been more destructive than the problem it was intended to solve.

I understand what you are saying. Legalize the drugs because druggies are going to do drugs no stopping that. However, gangs are violent and they brake laws that kill or seriously injury victims and one another. They should be punished for that severely. We need to get our heads out of our rear ends and bring back punishment that makes people not want to return to prison. Right now I have a buddy I served with in Federal prison he says it's a cake walk and by no means is it anything like the movies. He said most people actually live better in prison than they can on the streets and many prefer it so they don't care if they go back because they are taken better care of. He said he hs gained 30lbs because they feed you well in prison. He is writing a book about it and his time and what really goes on in prison. If state prisons are the same then things need to change to make it harder.

Forced hard labor beans, rice, bread and water for food only. Take away the weights, tv, books to read, newspapers, magazines, tobacco. Make it hell in there not club med. Medical only if it is absolutely needed, dental only pull teeth if needed. They live a better life than many law abiding citizens while in prison. Time to change it back to what it was in the 1800's.

 

[Ingomike]

Or end the failed Prohibition 2.0 that hasn't been working for these last 50+ years. It is the cause of a huge proportion of the violence in our country, is the leading factor in "the land of the free" having the highest incarceration rate in the world, is crazy expensive, and there's little evidence that it actually makes us any more secure.

I'm not in favor of drug use, but at some point we have to admit that the war on drugs has been more destructive than the problem it was intended to solve.

Spot on.

First there is the unconstitutional aspect of the war on drugs, our forefathers believed to outlaw alcohol they had to amend the constitution, then amend again to legalize it, but they never did that with drugs, they just unconstitutionally usurped the power.

The financial is twofold, the massive cost to taxpayers to try and battle a product with a 17,000% profit margin. When I learned they couldn't keep drugs out of federal super max prisions it was clear they could not keep them out of anything. Just a waste of money.

Then there is the fact that nothing has been used to curtail the people's freedoms than those done in the name of the war on drugs. This war has militarized our law enforcement and cost them many lives.

The war on drugs is an abject failure used to control the people...

 

[CampingJosh]

Gangs =/= Drugs

Sure. But drugs are a primary source of funding for gangs. Take away the profit opportunity and you'll dramatically undercut the gangs.

If they have gang affiliation, throw away the keys and never let them see the light of day again.

I don't think that discarding the First Amendment will be a precedent that works out well for all of us here.

 

[Ingomike]

Many of the drug laws were by companies that wanted to eliminate competition, the alcohol industry didn't want to compete with pot, there are others as well, but it was done in secret.

 

[CampingJosh]

I understand what you are saying. Legalize the drugs because druggies are going to do drugs no stopping that.

That isn't really my take on it.

We have a right to self-defense because of the underlying principle that each person has authority over their own body. Nobody can do anything to you without your consent (with very limited exceptions). But the principle of bodily autonomy also leads me to the belief that people have the right to choose what they ingest. Until their action interferes with someone else's freedom, they should be free to choose for themselves.

 

[gregr]

I understand what you are saying. Legalize the drugs because druggies are going to do drugs no stopping that. However, gangs are violent and they brake laws that kill or seriously injury victims and one another. They should be punished for that severely. We need to get our heads out of our rear ends and bring back punishment that makes people not want to return to prison. Right now I have a buddy I served with in Federal prison he says it's a cake walk and by no means is it anything like the movies. He said most people actually live better in prison than they can on the streets and many prefer it so they don't care if they go back because they are taken better care of. He said he hs gained 30lbs because they feed you well in prison. He is writing a book about it and his time and what really goes on in prison. If state prisons are the same then things need to change to make it harder.

Forced hard labor beans, rice, bread and water for food only. Take away the weights, tv, books to read, newspapers, magazines, tobacco. Make it hell in there not club med. Medical only if it is absolutely needed, dental only pull teeth if needed. They live a better life than many law abiding citizens while in prison. Time to change it back to what it was in the 1800's.

Just my opinion, but I believe it`s insane to even entertain the notion of making illicit drugs legal. As bad as the druggies are now, at least a third of the country will be walking zombies if it`s legal for them to use. And just because drugs would be legal, it doesn`t mean the low-lifes wouldn`t still have to rob, murder, and steal to fund their addictions. Likely MORE so, because if legalized, and of course taxed, they`ll be even MORE expensive.

 

[gregr]

That isn't really my take on it.

We have a right to self-defense because of the underlying principle that each person has authority over their own body. Nobody can do anything to you without your consent (with very limited exceptions). But the principle of bodily autonomy also leads me to the belief that people have the right to choose what they ingest. Until their action interferes with someone else's freedom, they should be free to choose for themselves.

Same argument the left uses as to why we all ought to be fine with unwed mothers, sexual perversion, teen moms, etc., but ultimately, ALL these things DO interfere with our freedoms because they`re a threat to the cohesion, the safety and security of the nation.

 

[Ingomike]

These laws also have unintended consequences, who the heck wanted nasty dangerous "bathtub gin"? Nobody!!! Who the heck wanted meth? Nobody!!! Now the sick cannot get cold medicine OTC because we restrict the market and worse is the consequence...

 

[Ingomike]

Just my opinion, but I believe it`s insane to even entertain the notion of making illicit drugs legal. As bad as the druggies are now, at least a third of the country will be walking zombies if it`s legal for them to use. And just because drugs would be legal, it doesn`t mean the low-lifes wouldn`t still have to rob, murder, and steal to fund their addictions. Likely MORE so, because if legalized, and of course taxed, they`ll be even MORE expensive.

That is not what has happened other places. The part of the population that suffers addiction problems is a steady constant, andd all the laws in the world cannot change it.

 

[Ingomike]

Same argument the left uses as to why we all ought to be fine with unwed mothers, sexual perversion, teen moms, etc., but ultimately, ALL these things DO interfere with our freedoms because they`re a threat to the cohesion, the safety and security of the nation.

What authority in the constitution do you use to enact this

 

[gregr]

That is not what has happened other places. The part of the population that suffers addiction problems is a steady constant, andd all the laws in the world cannot change it.

But making it legally easier for them to remain in the state they are in does NOTHING to help, and only further ensures they`ll NEVER get out of that state.

 

[gregr]

What authority in the constitution do you use to enact this

Government has the legal authority, AND obligation I would add, to enact measures that preserve the security of the state. This libertarian view of "freedom" is flawed from it`s start. Freedom doesn`t mean any of us can do ANYTHING, and dare someone to stop us. Freedom comes with the responsibility to be a good citizen and contribute to the productivity and security of the state. You already KNOW this.

 

[Ingomike]

But making it legally easier for them to remain in the state they are in does NOTHING to help, and only further ensures they`ll NEVER get out of that state.

Not my problem, nor yours for that matter.

 

[DadSmith]

Just my opinion, but I believe it`s insane to even entertain the notion of making illicit drugs legal. As bad as the druggies are now, at least a third of the country will be walking zombies if it`s legal for them to use. And just because drugs would be legal, it doesn`t mean the low-lifes wouldn`t still have to rob, murder, and steal to fund their addictions. Likely MORE so, because if legalized, and of course taxed, they`ll be even MORE expensive.

Why do you think that? Before there was a DEA many drugs considered illegal now were legal and a low percentage of the population used them. I believe if you make it legal it will take out the big money cartels and gangs fighting over them. It can be made by a reputable company and taxed like alcohol, tobacco, and in many states Cannabis. Tax it high enough to take care of the health problems it creates.

Making it legal still doesn't mean a company has to accept druggies as employees or the military, police departments, over the road drivers etc. Nor would it legalize driving while impaired on any kind of drugs. Just like alcohol it should be done at home or with a designated driver. If a person wants to destroy their body it's on them. Tax them enough to pay for it.