Text Released for HR 127 To provide for the licensing of firearm and ammunition possession and the registration of firearms, and to prohibit the posse

[phylodog]

I think you missed the part where *YOUR* "Personal Freedoms" END where they are predicted, or actually overlap with the "Public Welfare".

*YOUR* "Personal Freedoms" to swing your arms around END at the next guys nose... To reduce it to the most simple terms.

That statement is a prime example of the problem...
A complete sense of SELF ENTITLEMENT that was spawned sometime after I grew up.
We had firearms in the house 100% of my childhood, we had back window gun racks at school when I grew up,
But at no time, and by no one I ever met would consider using those firearms to harm anyone else...
And let's not forget no one broke into your vehicle and stole those firearms, so theift was off the table.

The completely self entitled generations since have created the big issues,
Have ZERO chance of admitting they caused it,
Have ZERO chance of correcting it...

So now somebody is offering a misguided idea to correct the situation, and the same generations that created the problems are freaking out about their self entitled importance talking about 'Freedoms' to do any idiot idea that pops into their heads...

I'd say lack of PARENTING by the 'ME' generation,
Lousy parents raise lousy kids, and so on..

Self entitled? Are you kidding me? I served my country for six years and my community for 20 and sit here recovering from yet another surgery because of it. I put skin in the game and in spite of the God given nature of my unalienable rights I also took several oaths to support and defend the document which clearly describes what you apparently have no understanding of. I've earned my right to have an opinion, have you?

Your fear of taking responsibility for yourself is the ****ing problem.

Or maybe its simply cowardice. I have no fear of fighting for what is right.

 

[JeepHammer]

You can, and already have passed background checks.
For now.
The goal posts keep moving in case you didn't notice.

With the completely morally bankrupt, spoiled brat, lousy parents/kids generations...
Some filtering might be required, just a skimmer on the gene pool.

Since firearms are making it into the hands of not only mass shooters, but GRADE SCHOOLS,
That is proof positive of lousy parenting and lousy firearms owners.

I don't have definite answers, never said I did... I just don't deny what's actually going on, and I won't make excuses for the criminally stupid.

When a lawyer friend pointed out it was easier to put someone in jail for abusing a dog than abusing their kids, I did what I could and became a volunteer child advocate.

When the law was passed that dealers had to do instant background checks, I took personal sales to the dealer and had the background check done before transfer simply because I didn't want one of firearms to wind up in the wrong hands.

When we started getting children in the house I locked up my firearms, just common sense to NOT provide a loaded firearm for that potential 'Accident'.

Responsibility seems to be sadly lacking today, no one takes the blame for anything, so no need to have common sense...
They want the world 'Child Proofed' for them, then complain (and sue) when it's not.
Parent/host leaves loaded firearm out where kid can get it,
Kid shoots self/someone else,

Parent/host sues everyone in sight,
But takes no personal responsibility, wouldn't use the FREE firearms lock,
Wouldn't secure firearms knowing children in the house,
No common sense required when it's someone/anyone elses 'Fault'...

Reverse Darwinism, expects everyone ELSE to keep them alive,
But complains/rants when someone takes steps to do so.

I'm glad I'm old and don't have to put up with the stupidity too many years longer.
I've spent most of my life at least trying to do the 'right' thing, but it's getting tiring/time consuming and WAY too expensive to explain 'Water Is Wet' to the current generations...
They make the weather, then complain when it rains!

 

[actaeon277]

So start putting some of those children and parents in jail.
The guilty should pay.

Not everyone else.

Bills have been submitted before that consider shotguns (weapons against crowds) and bolt actions (sniper rifles)

If you feel giving up your weapons will make the streets safer, go right ahead, and give up your weapons.
At least have the courage of your convictions.



Are we going to start amputating genitals to keep people from being rapists?

 

[churchmouse]

OK people/. It would seem we are reaching the limits of civility in this thread.
I can do one of a few things here.
1st.....ask you all to step back and take a deep breath. Give it a rest on your own.
2nd......I can effectively give a few of you that same rest if you should choose not to take my advice. 1 or more of you have been locked out of the other thread on this same topic so seriously....step off please.
3rd.....I can lock the thread which effects several that are not acting out.


4th.....or I can just get the hammer out of storage. I would as soon not OK.

Your call.

 

[phylodog]

Since firearms are making it into the hands of not only mass shooters, but GRADE SCHOOLS,
That is proof positive of lousy parenting and lousy firearms owners.

But it was fine back in your day, right?. You're from a blessed generation of outstanding people and no one has measured up since, right? It was fine for you to have a shotgun rack in your vehicle and drive to school but no one else is good enough, right?

Talk about self entitled. Don't fall off of that horse, you're already giving any of your descendants plenty of reason to be ashamed and embarrassed.

Here's a little insight for you. What has changed since you were a kid is the liberal policies you appear to be so fond of. That's what has ****ed this country up yet you can't wait to see more of it put into place.

 

[phylodog]

Warning heeded, I'm out.

 

[JeepHammer]

Self entitled? Are you kidding me? I served my country for six years and my community for 20 and sit here recovering from yet another surgery because of it. I put skin in the game and in spite of the God given nature of my unalienable rights I also took several oaths to support and defend the document which clearly describes what you apparently have no understanding of. I've earned my right to have an opinion, have you?

Your fear of taking responsibility for yourself is the ******* problem.

Or maybe its simply cowardice. I have no fear of fighting for what is right.

New to the conversation?
16 years US Marines.
Joined when people still spit on men in uniform.
Shot twice, blown up twice, 3 aircraft crashes.
Left ankle, both knees, one hip, back broke in 5 places, neck in 2, shoulder screwed up.

Didn't stop when the VA handed me a train car load of pain pills and sent me home to die...
Built a homestead (from a wheelchair the first two years),
Built several businesses, machine & welding shop, generator/alternator/starter/electric motor rebuild business.

Saw kids with no future, joined in the mentor program,
Saw kids with no voice in court, started as a child advocate.

Move forward, always forward...
Improvise, adapt, overcome.

I saw a bunch of this coming after seeing what the Reagan/Bush administration's were doing with the military, in places we shouldn't have been, doing things we shouldn't have been doing.

Dug in, own water wells, own micro power grid, poured concrete home that's sustainable & earth sheltered (Geothermal).
Grow most of our own food,
can fabricate most anything we need,
you missed the thread on old sewing machines and knitting machines.

Socked away 5-7 years worth of food/supplies, and started this when most of you were playing video games & getting high,
Because I saw what was coming...
I got the smallest glimpse at the all powerful 'Oz' behind the curtain back in the 80s, and I wanted to be secure in my 'Senior' years and knew for sure that wasn't going to happen out there in the rat race where everything is a lie, those proclaiming to defend your rights were doing the exact opposite,
And they had a plan that HAS already worked...

The economic middle class has collapsed, the wealth extracted, and any chance of regaining it cut off.
'Alternate' has replaced ACTUAL, and everyone laps up the spin doctors while they laugh all the way to the bank, and we kill each other over scraps,
Just look at this thread, these guys are actually, seriously discussing 'Civil' war!

First, there is nothing 'Civil' about war, and they have exactly ZERO idea what happens when internal wars happen or they would be scared shitless,
AND,
The very idea of a Democracy/Constitution is to give you a vote instead of a bullet...

BUT,
They have let the spin doctors propaganda divide the country so badly (while they steal everything in sight) these people actually BELIEVE internal war is a viable option!
War is good for profit margins, so I wouldn't doubt it actually happens.

It's complete group insanity, engineered to near perfection!
And I'm the one taking crap because I refuse to participate in furthering the insanity.

You can't loose 'Freedoms' that are an illusion inn the first place,
But since it's not coming from 'Alternative' (propaganda), social engineering sources, you won't believe it, opting for crap like Biden is JFK Jr. in a 'CGI' mask, the election was stolen, Labor unions are 'Bad', anyone that didn't vote for Trump is a communist, the list goes on endlessly...

*YOUR* 'Feelings' about the Constitution don't matter one bit...
What you *Think* it says isn't actually what it says,
And if you *Think* war is going to change anything then you are in for a rude awakening, that's *IF* you survive the shooting.

Again, CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLARS (actual education in the subject) decide what is, and isn't, 'Constitutional'.
When you want a machinists opinion, then maybe I'll have an answer,
Same with your chosen profession...
But when it comes to the Constitution it will be the experts in that field making the decisions, not what *You* might 'believe'.

Didn't they teach you a speciality in the military?
Was it Constitutional Law?
Did you take classes (actual education) in the Constitution?

Wasn't there a chain of command?
Were you allowed to run around doing anything that crossed your mind,
Or did you take orders, work together to get things done?

I mean really, someone claiming to be former military saying *THEY* and *THEY ALONE* have all the answers, can make decisions for everyone else while talking about 'Freedoms'...
Kind of arrogant, don't you think?

What happens when the guys that feeds you (and presumably your family) disagree with you?
After all, the 'Freedoms' you tout give them the 'Right' NOT to feed you and yours...
Didn't the military teach you about supply chain, logistics?

That sword cuts BOTH ways...

 

[phylodog]

I'm sure your fellow Marines would be proud of you now.

I have the ability to feed my family without grocery stores. I'm prepared to suffer consequences of standing up for what is right and upholding the oath I took. Maybe you should review it and refresh your memory.

Sounds like you were a good American back in the day.

 

[churchmouse]

Sigh.

 

[actaeon277]

Among other things in this anti-gunner's wish list, there is a "waiting period".

How does that work?
Stopping crimes of passion?
Crimes of passion use "weapons of opportunity ", whatever is at hand.
Going to the store to buy a gun, negates "crime of passion".
Someone already has a gun, why stop them from getting the second?
Are they not going to already use the gun they have?


That's one point.

 

[bwframe]

 

[tbhausen]

You have missed the mark again.

I spent 16 years in the Marines so you all back here could make poor decisions in a FREE COUNTRY.

I've never been in politics, never held an elected position.

Rant all you want to, but (collective) YOUR position is entirely (collective) YOUR own fault, from (collective) YOUR own decisions.

I didn't make the decisions over the past 40+ years that got everyone into this mess.
Ranting at me makes no sense at all.

Anger comes from confusion,
In this case, confusion comes from lack of education.
I'm NOT your father, it's not my job to solve your problems now you are an adult...

OK, you’ll have to guess what I wrote, but I’m only taking it back to make Churchmouse’s life easier.

 

[tbhausen]

The points (plural) are many...
Top of the list is mass shootings.

Unless *YOU* have a definitive way to keep firearms out of mass shooter's hands, the rest of the population IS eventually going to ATTEMPT to do something about it.

Those attempts may be (and probably will be) misguided.

The absolute and utter refusal of so called "Law & Order" types to not only follow the law,
BUT THE INTENT OF THE LAW,
is what will eventually bring more controls & restrictions down...

Since so many have expressed they directly oppose, and refuse to do dealer/instant background transfers, that mild restriction will be much more harsh when it's revisited.

Law enforcement has been sadly lacking on their end of things also.
Some straw purchasers have been charged, but only after the firearms was used in serious crime.
That needs to change.

Some 'Private Sales' sellers have been charged, but again, only after serious crimes were committed with the firearm.
See Kenosha shooter for example.
This also needs to change.
ANY background check, or simple check of drivers licence would have kept the Kenosha shooter from purchasing the rifle, but the seller just wanted the cash and didn't care a damn for the law, intent of the law, public safety or anything else...

Unless you are my age, *YOU* have "LOST" exactly nothing.

Most of the people complaining were alive in 1968, or owned automatic/automatic devices in 1984, and the little restriction of the 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban" (cosmetic inconvenience) expired in 2004,
Indiana hasn't imposed any new restriction ever that I can remember.

Most just throw a fit because they were told to throw a fit by extremist PROPAGANDA.
Now, if you lived in New York or California you would have a complaint leg to stand on, but here it's just whining when you aren't hurt...

UNLESS/UNTIL *YOU* come up with an idea how to stop the mass shooters, and extremist idiots taking over capitol buildings, and decide to comply with current laws/intent of those laws, there WILL be new laws/restrictions passed to make the general masses feel safe (even if they aren't).
It's just the way of the world, like Japanese-American internment camps during WWII, just like the 94 "Assault Weapons Ban", and a hundred other dumb ideas that have come & gone.

What you and so many others failed to absorb...
Having your RIGHTS to own firearms on your driver's licence/state ID card is automatic, instantly certifies your rights.
The only way to have that removed is by doing something that gets you restricted, like commiting a qualifying crime, having a mental illness where you are legally disqualified from having firearms, ect.

Advocating that EVERYONE, regardless of age, criminal record, mental illness, ect has some 'RIGHT' to be armed to the teeth is beyond silly, it's dangerously criminal.
The idea YOU should be able to sell firearms to underage, criminals, mentally ill makes YOU dangerous & criminal also.

SINCE YOU SIMPLY REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE IN CURRENT SOCIETY, FOLLOW CURRENT LAWS/INTENT OF LAWS, *YOU* become the problem...
And *YOU* are only 30% of the voting population, not enough to block a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, and 2A could cease to exist entirely...

Roll that one around in your head a while...

********. In nearly every case, law enforcement, teachers, parents, friends, etc. had plenty of warning signs (often on social media). No one acted on them. Don’t blame law-abiding gun owners.

 

[tbhausen]

With the completely morally bankrupt, spoiled brat, lousy parents/kids generations...
Some filtering might be required, just a skimmer on the gene pool.

Since firearms are making it into the hands of not only mass shooters, but GRADE SCHOOLS,
That is proof positive of lousy parenting and lousy firearms owners.

I don't have definite answers, never said I did... I just don't deny what's actually going on, and I won't make excuses for the criminally stupid.

When a lawyer friend pointed out it was easier to put someone in jail for abusing a dog than abusing their kids, I did what I could and became a volunteer child advocate.

When the law was passed that dealers had to do instant background checks, I took personal sales to the dealer and had the background check done before transfer simply because I didn't want one of firearms to wind up in the wrong hands.

When we started getting children in the house I locked up my firearms, just common sense to NOT provide a loaded firearm for that potential 'Accident'.

Responsibility seems to be sadly lacking today, no one takes the blame for anything, so no need to have common sense...
They want the world 'Child Proofed' for them, then complain (and sue) when it's not.
Parent/host leaves loaded firearm out where kid can get it,
Kid shoots self/someone else,

Parent/host sues everyone in sight,
But takes no personal responsibility, wouldn't use the FREE firearms lock,
Wouldn't secure firearms knowing children in the house,
No common sense required when it's someone/anyone elses 'Fault'...

Reverse Darwinism, expects everyone ELSE to keep them alive,
But complains/rants when someone takes steps to do so.

I'm glad I'm old and don't have to put up with the stupidity too many years longer.
I've spent most of my life at least trying to do the 'right' thing, but it's getting tiring/time consuming and WAY too expensive to explain 'Water Is Wet' to the current generations...
They make the weather, then complain when it rains!

Again, stepping away to make Churchmouse’s life easier. It’s been a long time since I wanted to romp and stomp in a thread like I do in this one, but I’ll step away.

 

[churchmouse]

Again, stepping away to make Churchmouse’s life easier. It’s been a long time since I wanted to romp and stomp in a thread like I do in this one, but I’ll step away.

Please.
I have invoked the rarely used but most cool new tool in my mod arsenal.

 

[mbkintner]

 

[actaeon277]

) Registration of all firearms with database being accessable by law enforcement, military, any govt. agency, and the general public.

Well, Indiana had registration. It costs lots of $$$ and effort.
Then they figured it really was a waste of effort, time, and $ that could be better used elsewhere.
It was fraught with errors, and there was massive non-compliance.
Canada had the same problem.
Other States also.

But I'm sure the Feds will do it right.
Just like I'm sure socialism will work when they do it right.

 

[actaeon277]

2) Federal license to own or purchase a firearm.

Licenses are just scams, in my opinion.
It's like saying, this action is BAD, unless THE MAN gets his cut.
Are criminals going to decide to follow the law and get licensed?

How does this do anything other than affect the law abiding?

 

[phylodog]

It's all just different means to the same end, total ban/confiscation. They can sugar coat it, say it's for the children, blame it on whomever or whatever they choose but it is and always will be the final nail in the coffin.

I pose a threat to no one who poses no threat to me or my family. Therefor it should concern no one as to what I own. The only reason it would is a desire to force things upon me which I do not agree with.

 

[actaeon277]

2A) Mandatory training to own and purchase.
2B) Mandatory psychological exam to own and purchase a firearm.

And do the States with required training have safer rates?
Psychological exam? Has science become witchcraft? Do you think a doc wants to say ANYONE is okay?