CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Christianity

[Alpo]

I'm unfamiliar with any group other than our local Greenwood department, which I have a lot of respect for. However, they went through a tremendous amount of red-tape to get rid of a poor performing LEO. I'm certain that all the hoops they had to jump through were not established locally.

 

[T.Lex]

I'm unfamiliar with any group other than our local Greenwood department, which I have a lot of respect for. However, they went through a tremendous amount of red-tape to get rid of a poor performing LEO. I'm certain that all the hoops they had to jump through were not established locally.

Indiana law puts up quite a few of those hurdles, with the local jurisdiction able to tailor it, too.

But, when it comes to things like best practices and the force continuum, that's an agency decision that the union (in my experience) doesn't really have much input. Just my experience.

 

[JettaKnight]

You know, I don't much recall, but I thought you were on the other side of this issue when the question was whether a church and its elders/pastor should be involved in politics possibly at the expense of endangering tax exempt status

Forgive me if I don't recall the particulars correctly, but is it only bad when you disagree with the sentiments expressed?

Not sure I remember what you're getting at, oh teal one.

Does this have to do with pastors calling out Trump? Or maybe pastors promoting Trump (e.g. Robert Jeffress)



I'll echo T.Lex - there's a lot of people that have latched onto BLM, not because of the Marxist leadership, or burn it down mentality, but because to want some social change - they want to acknowledge that racism isn't dead in America, and things are unbalanced. And until those folks wise up and splinter off, calling out BLM from the pulpit by name isn't the best choice.


Antifa - I haven't seen anything positive about them or anyone bamboozled into thinking they're good. But I also don't see Christians fooled by them, so then does it need to be said?


I dunno. It's not a big deal either way; and it's much more boring than the "real" Father Ted.

 

[2A_Tom]

Well, I personally I believe the Johnson Act 1954 is unconstitutional. Doesn't it kind of go against two parts of the 1ST Amendment?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So you agree that the entirety of the Black Lives Matter movement is malevolent?

That's a broad brush.

I believe Marxism is malevolent, yes. Their platform is of that bent plus being pro-abortion, etc., etc., so it takes a broad brush.

 

[T.Lex]

I believe Marxism is malevolent, yes. Their platform is of that bent plus being pro-abortion, etc., etc., so it takes a broad brush.

From whence this labeling of BLM with "Marxist" derive? I've only seen it here on INGO. And I've not seen a single pro-abortion sign at a BLM rally, although my sample size is admittedly small.

And I've not seen any signals of Marx (or Engels) in their protests.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

From whence this labeling of BLM with "Marxist" derive? I've only seen it here on INGO. And I've not seen a single pro-abortion sign at a BLM rally, although my sample size is admittedly small.

And I've not seen any signals of Marx (or Engels) in their protests.

Just what I’ve read from sources I trust. I don’t get all of my news and info from INGO. The items I listed previously were the ones that came to me from the top of my head. But from what I’ve read and heard, their platform, the BLM platform, not the unicorn thoughts and starry dreams of the “useful idiots”, they check off a great many boxes that you hear from the neo/cultural-marxists.

 

[Alpo]

From whence this labeling of BLM with "Marxist" derive? I've only seen it here on INGO. And I've not seen a single pro-abortion sign at a BLM rally, although my sample size is admittedly small.

And I've not seen any signals of Marx (or Engels) in their protests.

Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.

Cullors, 36, was the protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground domestic terror organization, and spent years absorbing the Marxist-Leninist ideology that shaped her worldview, Breitbart News reported.

“The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers,” she said, referring to BLM co-founder Alicia Garza.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk,” Cullors added in the interview with Jared Ball of The Real News Network.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Only the first google entry. There are more.

 

[T.Lex]

Just what I’ve read from sources I trust. I don’t get all of my news and info from INGO. The items I listed previously were the ones that came to me from the top of my head. But from what I’ve read and heard, their platform, the BLM platform, not the unicorn thoughts and starry dreams of the “useful idiots”, they check off a great many boxes that you hear from the neo/cultural-marxists.

hahaha

Nor do I get any news from INGO. (Well, GPIasjdfhugushgnder notwithstanding.) Rather, this is the only place I've seen BLM overall labeled as Marxist.

Do you know anyone who has been to a BLM rally or watched one? Like, the people who might actually have a good faith belief that some things in our society could be improved? Not something you read off a website, but something gained from an actual conversation?

 

[T.Lex]

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

Only the first google entry. There are more.

Ah, interesting. So the values of the leaders can be attributed to the followers. I guess protestations from Trump supporters that they weren't comfortable with the man's personal foibles are now easily dismissed, too.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

hahaha

Nor do I get any news from INGO. (Well, GPIasjdfhugushgnder notwithstanding.) Rather, this is the only place I've seen BLM overall labeled as Marxist.

Do you know anyone who has been to a BLM rally or watched one? Like, the people who might actually have a good faith belief that some things in our society could be improved? Not something you read off a website, but something gained from an actual conversation?

I believe more than one thing can be true simultaneously. I think we are giving a malevolent force life by speaking its name. Just because they claim to champion a cause that probably has some need to be championed, the “enemy of my enemy”, so to speak is not necessarily my friend.

 

[T.Lex]

I believe more than one thing can be true simultaneously. I think we are giving a malevolent force life by speaking its name. Just because they claim to champion a cause that probably has some need to be championed, the “enemy of my enemy”, so to speak is not necessarily my friend.

Ok. Right now, though, the banner says BLM for some things that probably need to be at least discussed in our society, because the chance of actually resolving them is at least a generation away. At least, I think that's the course we're on.

There is, was, and always will be malevolence. And the corresponding need to stand against it. BLM is standing against a certain kind of that malevolence.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Ok. Right now, though, the banner says BLM for some things that probably need to be at least discussed in our society, because the chance of actually resolving them is at least a generation away. At least, I think that's the course we're on.

There is, was, and always will be malevolence. And the corresponding need to stand against it. BLM is standing against a certain kind of that malevolence.

A wolf in sheep’s clothing. Beware giving them too much credit. I’m not falling for it/them.

 

[Alpo]

I'd say they aren't as pure as that, T.Lex.

And again, I say the objective is not equality. It is dominance. When is it proper to tear down institutions and rebuild outside of the avenues put there in the Constitution? Iconoclasm certainly has its place. But redress of grievances would seem to me to be more appropriately brought before the goverment bodies involved as opposed to looting and arson.

What I see today is no different than Abbie Hoffman and the Yippees attempted to do in the 60's: Tear it down and put people who meet the purity test in their place.

 

[chocktaw2]

BMM
Bowel Movements Matter! Seriously, they doo.

 

[2A_Tom]

Ah, interesting. So the values of the leaders can be attributed to the followers. I guess protestations from Trump supporters that they weren't comfortable with the man's personal foibles are now easily dismissed, too.

I don't see the protestations from BLM supporters that they aren't comfortable with BLM's leaders views. Maybe you can post a link.

 

[nonobaddog]

I think LE agencies can do a better job of identifying "bad apples" and using peer pressure to either get them to not be douchebags or convince them to leave the agency. But, that's also a cultural thing that doesn't happen quickly.

LE agencies have done an absolutely horrible job of getting rid of bad apples - in fact they have embraced, defended and lied for them vigorously. This has contributed greatly to the "us vs them" situation.

 

[BugI02]

One distinction that is important - to me - is the one between BLM and Antifa.

Antifa is the new anarchist movement, IMHO.

BLM is more about social justice (whatever that means).

["I said," Newsome replied, "if this country doesn't give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it. And I could be speaking figuratively or I could be speaking very literally." - originally posted by Hawk Newsome, chairman of BLM Greater NY]

Is there an overlap? Sure. Somewhat like the overlap between Trump supporters and conservatives. But that doesn't make them the same.

Policing is very difficult to do well. I'm not sure every police jurisdiction needs reformed. In fact, I believe that to not be true. But, it is healthy to be in a continuous-improvement cycle with that. It is a profession that can always be done better. And, feedback from those being policed is vitally important.

I also think that the BLM movement is calling attention to the socio-economic issues that play a significant role in criminality. That's a political problem, at some level, but one that bends towards conservativism more than liberalism.

There are other societal angles to it that are completely separate from the anarcho-terrorism of Antifa.

*.*

 

[BugI02]

From whence this labeling of BLM with "Marxist" derive? I've only seen it here on INGO. And I've not seen a single pro-abortion sign at a BLM rally, although my sample size is admittedly small.

And I've not seen any signals of Marx (or Engels) in their protests.

The 'founders' of BLM are self-acknowledged marxists

When someone tells you who they really are ...

 

[BugI02]

hahaha

Nor do I get any news from INGO. (Well, GPIasjdfhugushgnder notwithstanding.) Rather, this is the only place I've seen BLM overall labeled as Marxist.

Do you know anyone who has been to a BLM rally or watched one? Like, the people who might actually have a good faith belief that some things in our society could be improved? Not something you read off a website, but something gained from an actual conversation?

Objection! Begging the question, councillor