Indy Man shot, killed during attempted robbery

[4sarge]

Man shot, killed during attempted robbery

Jul 1, 2008

Indianapolis - Metro Police are investigating a homicide on the city's west side.

Investigators say an attempted robbery ended in gunfire in a parking lot at West 38th Street and Moller Road just after 11 pm Monday. The victim was a 72-year-old Hispanic man who witnessed a young man holding a female friend of his at gunpoint, attempting to take her purse.

The man pulled his own gun in protection, pointing it at the robber. The suspect immediately fired several rounds at the victim, striking and killing him. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
"As admirable as that is, to want to come to the defense of somebody in that situation, the best thing to do is to call the police," said IMPD Sgt. Matt Mount.

The robbery victim, identified as a 54-year-old woman from Avon, was not injured. The suspect is described as a young black male, who was wearing a gray shirt, black shorts and a black baseball cap at the time of the shooting. He was last seen running southeast across 38th Street.

The identity of the victim is being withheld pending positive identification and notification of his family.

Police are asking anyone with information about the shooting or the suspect contact Crimestoppers at 262-TIPS.

WTHR - Indianapolis News and Weather - Man shot, killed during attempted robbery

 

[indyjoe]

I wonder about the details of the situation. Range of the encounter. Cover and concealment available. Seems like unless you are confident about making a good head shot that wouldn't hit the victim, you are at a serious disadvantage to a criminal that will be spraying at you with bullets.

 

[wolfman]

I wonder about the details of the situation. Range of the encounter. Cover and concealment available. Seems like unless you are confident about making a good head shot that wouldn't hit the victim, you are at a serious disadvantage to a criminal that will be spraying at you with bullets.

This is a good example of why most of the time it is necessary to make the shoot, don't shoot decision, before reaching for your gun.
Decide shoot is a go, reach, draw, raise to ready, aim, fire, all in one fluid motion, with no hesitation.

 

[Glock Lover]

All those things may have been considered and the crook may just have been faster. That's why I practice, practice, practice, and then pray.

 

[4sarge]

All those things may have been considered and the crook may just have been faster. That's why I practice, practice, practice, and then pray.

RIP for the old guy. Lots of factors in play here. 72 year old man, trying to do the right thing versus 16-30 yr old determined armed robber probably with little conscience and moral values. Unfortunately, trying to do the right thing isn't always the correct choice. Thoughts and condolences to the man's family.

I've eaten at that restaurant many times. That's the strip mall that Best Buy is in. The whole neighborhood has been going downhill for many years but was once the cutting edge of suburban commerce. Times change, be prepared, be safe :do2:

 

[Glock Lover]

RIP for the old guy. Lots of factors in play here. 72 year old man, trying to do the right thing versus 16-30 yr old determined armed robber probably with little conscience and moral values. Unfortunately, trying to do the right thing isn't always the correct choice. Thoughts and condolences to the man's family.

I've eaten at that restaurant many times. That's the strip mall that Best Buy is in. The whole neighborhood has been going downhill for many years but was once the cutting edge of suburban commerce. Times change, be prepared, be safe :do2:

 

[sjstill]

Almost had lunch there Monday, opted for Red Lobster instead....

 

[GetA2J]

The shocker of it is. It could have happenned to any of us.
We see a loved one being accosted by a bad guy. We call out warnings before shooting.(as is probably taught in classes as morally proper and a ticket out of a civil suit. i.e. I gave the perp multiple warnings) and while we wait for compliance the B.G. raises his pistol and takes several shots .....
It got me thinking.

 

[4sarge]

The shocker of it is. It could have happened to any of us.
We see a loved one being accosted by a bad guy. We call out warnings before shooting.(as is probably taught in classes as morally proper and a ticket out of a civil suit. i.e. I gave the perp multiple warnings) and while we wait for compliance the B.G. raises his pistol and takes several shots .....
It got me thinking.

Back in the day (:rolleyesedit cops would fire "warning shots" to get perps compliance. Translated into English, they just plain missed. Those days are long gone (rightfully so) but this is the age of litigation. Civil prosecution and monetary judgments are on everyone's mind. Be safe, be prepared and be correct.

GetA2J, don't take that wrong, there can only be one winner in a gun fight (or fight for your life). Just make sure that it is you who prevails

 

[iam1096]

The news had a very pro gun additude with the shooting. The family spoke on how the man love the right to carry and said it was his right to carry. Also his son said he would have done the same thing his father did.
Hard to say what I would have done, no I would have tried to help too. I was a police officer for 14 years and would have done my best to make sure the BG didn't know I was there until I wanted him to know.
I go to Pop's weekly to shoot and when I shoot, I always draw my weapon from my holster and reholster after acouple of rounds fired. I always want to train my self to shoot like I would in real life ( if I can). Two to the chest and one to the head.

 

[DocGlock86]

You know I've always heard that if you ever have to shoot someone make sure that; A. it's you last resort and B. you give the perp a chance to stand down. But I would think in a situation like this you don't have that chance to think and chat and the spilt second you draw and point your weapon is warning enough to stand down.

 

[Dogman]

RIP, to someone that tried to do the right thing.

 

[GetA2J]

RIP, to someone that tried to do the right thing.

 

[Disposable Heart]

A handgun or permit or training isnt a talisman. Karma and luck have some to play. Prepare, but be also be ready to accept the consequences if one chooses to play the "hero". Can the warnings, get rid of the bravado. You will face charges regardless if you warn or not. Life isnt always as Massad will tell you or like the movies show. Your life is much more important that a few bucks in your wallet. Alot of internet blow hards (Ive seen on a bunch of boards) will get killed in this situation. Ive been at knife point once in college and while I had a gun in my back pocket, I just gave him the wallet and let him on his way. Had I tried to draw or tell him to drop it, I would probably be eating from a tube now. Not as glamourous as the traning vids show it huh? Guy eventually got caught not even 15 minutes later.

For those claiming dreams of failure drills and being a hero: Let this be an example. Defend yourself, let the police be the heros. Unless you see them employ deadly force as a force, not as a threat, no reason for you to get involved. Be a trained witness, not just a gunfighter. A cellular phone is more powerful than a thousand .45 slugs. Unless you purposefully get yourself mugged to shoot people on a weekly basis, the adenaline dump is scary and you cannot control it. I can sit there and do my usual drills every night, but still doesnt compare to being literally scared out of your wits. You ACTUALLY FREEZE UP!

RIP Old Man.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

That man is a HERO, plain and simple.

He voluntarily put himself in an extremely dangerous situation to help out that woman.

He paid the ultimate price.

"There is no greater love than he who would lay down his life for friends."

-J-

 

[4sarge]

That man is a HERO, plain and simple.

He voluntarily put himself in an extremely dangerous situation to help out that woman.

He paid the ultimate price.

"There is no greater love than he who would lay down his life for friends."

-J-

+1

 

[abnk]

A handgun or permit or training isnt a talisman. Karma and luck have some to play. Prepare, but be also be ready to accept the consequences if one chooses to play the "hero". Can the warnings, get rid of the bravado. You will face charges regardless if you warn or not. Life isnt always as Massad will tell you or like the movies show. Your life is much more important that a few bucks in your wallet. Alot of internet blow hards (Ive seen on a bunch of boards) will get killed in this situation. Ive been at knife point once in college and while I had a gun in my back pocket, I just gave him the wallet and let him on his way. Had I tried to draw or tell him to drop it, I would probably be eating from a tube now. Not as glamourous as the traning vids show it huh? Guy eventually got caught not even 15 minutes later.

For those claiming dreams of failure drills and being a hero: Let this be an example. Defend yourself, let the police be the heros. Unless you see them employ deadly force as a force, not as a threat, no reason for you to get involved. Be a trained witness, not just a gunfighter. A cellular phone is more powerful than a thousand .45 slugs. Unless you purposefully get yourself mugged to shoot people on a weekly basis, the adenaline dump is scary and you cannot control it. I can sit there and do my usual drills every night, but still doesnt compare to being literally scared out of your wits. You ACTUALLY FREEZE UP!

RIP Old Man.

You make some good points, but I'm not sure that I agree with the highlighted part; especially with the last sentence. All intructors that I have trained with emphasize that one will not rise to the occasion miraculously, but will revert to previous training. However, I am not insinuating that this is true simply because some instructors said it. My personal experience also confirms what they teach. If all people froze in duress, all attacks would end with the attacker as the victor.

If I misunderstood your message, I apologize.

 

[Disposable Heart]

I didnt revert to jack ****, no matter the training. I used to practice drawing all day with (yeah, at the time) a Jimenez POS. Had it down to a fluid, efficient motion, loading drills (not too much different than the hour a night I spend today with much better). Now, I think I would not freeze. But will I depend on that when I am being robbed? Maybe not. I trained almost continously before the incident and realistically, I froze. Plain and simple. Does that make my training useless? Not really. Does that make real training (I didnt pay for mine, so I guess its not the same) uselss? Once again, No. Does that make me useless? Potentially, yes. I guess it matters on the person, not the situation or training.

In regards to the other stuff: I didnt say he wasnt a hero. Im saying I am a coward. Not fun to admit it, but strictly speaking, I am.

BTW Abnk, PM me with your running results. That thread had some potential, but died pretty quick!

 

[4sarge]

I didn't revert to jack ****, no matter the training. I used to practice drawing all day with (yeah, at the time) a Jimenez POS. Had it down to a fluid, efficient motion, loading drills (not too much different than the hour a night I spend today with much better). Now, I think I would not freeze. But will I depend on that when I am being robbed? Maybe not. I trained almost continously before the incident and realistically, I froze. Plain and simple. Does that make my training useless? Not really. Does that make real training (I didnt pay for mine, so I guess its not the same) uselss? Once again, No. Does that make me useless? Potentially, yes. I guess it matters on the person, not the situation or training.

In regards to the other stuff: I didnt say he wasnt a hero. Im saying I am a coward. Not fun to admit it, but strictly speaking, I am.

BTW Abnk, PM me with your running results. That thread had some potential, but died pretty quick!

DH, heroes are made by situations not born. Every shooting that I personally have been involved in always seemed in slow motion even though things were happening quickly. Sub conscious training was running the show (Thank God) but my slow mo conscious was in the oh **** this isn't really happening mode but I can only speak from my own personal experiences.

 

[Dogman]

I just gave him the wallet and let him on his way.

You did what you had to to survive, and at the end of the day that's what counts, it doesn't make you a coward. It means you used common sense.