Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting

[rbane3]

I'm glad to have had the input of the INGO members who are also LEO on this and other troublesome topics (the recent hotel thread comes to mind). I appreciate you taking the time to express your point of view and potentially shift our frame of reference. Your posts add a great deal to the level of discourse. I further appreciate that, for the most part, INGO is a place where I can read civil discourse on such hair-raising topics without feeling like I'm either a stranger in a strange land or one of fifty in an endless echo chamber.

I have a question that I hope can be viewed as legitimate and not flamed. I honestly do not mean this as disrespectful in any way, shape, or form to our police represented here or in general. Here goes:

IANAL! It is my understanding that it is an established and tried tenet of our freedoms that you may resist an unlawful arrest even up to the use of deadly force. (Plummer v State, 136 Ind 306 & John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529) With this as an axiom... to me, it follows that my 4th amendment freedoms protecting illegal search and seizure and my right to resist false arrest may be seen as more important than that officer's life. I realize that this is a GROSS simplification. I appreciate what the officers have said in this thread about reaction time and deadly consequences. I can't imagine what kind of stresses and threats you have to deal with every day.

However, my question.. isn't an innocent man's freedom (life, in this case) worth the hesitation? If this man had resisted, would he not be right in doing so?

I haven't volunteered to put my life on the line by wearing blue (though I did wearing green). Call me a keyboard warrior all you want, or an armchair quarterback. It is my opinion as a law-abiding free man that there should never be a circumstance where my life even has the potential to be taken by one sworn to protect and serve unless I have a gun pointed at that officer or someone else. I AM IN NO WAY ADVOCATING THE KILLING OF A POLICE OFFICER. I truly hope that, should I ever be in such a situation, I am able to clear up the misunderstanding peacefully and without incident. But, as others have said, if I'm opening the door at night in my underwear my gun is likely in my hand or close by. At that point, I have committed no crime and deserve as much consideration and due process as one who answered in tophat and evening coat with a congenial smile.

All that being said, the prankster deserves all that's coming to him and more.

 

[HoughMade]

You may use deadly force to resist unlawful deadly force or serious bodily injury of yourself or another.

Notice I only mentioned the right of bodily integrity/life, not any other rights. IIAL

 

[rbane3]

You may use deadly force to resist unlawful deadly force or serious bodily injury of yourself or another.

Notice I only mentioned the right of bodily integrity/life, not any other rights. IIAL

Thank you for that clarification, Hough. The general sentiment of my post stands. But I truly appreciate the knowledge.

 

[1usmc1]

Yes. And if you don't know the code, INGO isn't for you.

Finally, English.

If these are the childish games you folks think is conducive to meaningful conversation, then you’re right. I’m outa here, and I’ll be taking my number with me. No more support for what I “thought” was supposed to be about gun rights in the state of Indiana, not a bunch of twits (not the word I wanted to use) determined to alienate members of your organization because you’re too lazy to actually say what you mean. Or, perhaps, you simply lack the balls.

 

[HoughMade]

Here's a well-known English idiom- thin skinned.

I would prefer you stay. It doesn't take long to catch on. It's not that difficult, but I understand how it can be confusing at first. I'm sure you could have some interesting virtual discussions here. If you choose to be offended rather than join in, so be it.

 

[Squander]

Finally, English.

If these are the childish games you folks think is conducive to meaningful conversation, then you’re right. I’m outa here, and I’ll be taking my number with me. No more support for what I “thought” was supposed to be about gun rights in the state of Indiana, not a bunch of twits (not the word I wanted to use) determined to alienate members of your organization because you’re too lazy to actually say what you mean. Or, perhaps, you simply lack the balls.

Don't go just yet, it's people trying to lighten-up the conversation a little, nothing more.

 

[phylodog]

to me, it follows that my 4th amendment freedoms protecting illegal search and seizure and my right to resist false arrest may be seen as more important than that officer's life.

No one's life is supposed to be more important than another person's life. As Hough indicated, you cannot use deadly force against an LEO, or anyone else, to prevent your 4th Amendment rights from being violated.

However, my question.. isn't an innocent man's freedom (life, in this case) worth the hesitation? If this man had resisted, would he not be right in doing so?

Absolutely it was (or should have been) worth hesitation. It is difficult to be certain from the video but it seemed the shot was fired prematurely to me. As far as resisting is concerned, there may be times where you are justified in doing so but you've got to consider how that is going to pan out. Seeking recourse in court later is likely to be a lot less painful.

I haven't volunteered to put my life on the line by wearing blue (though I did wearing green). Call me a keyboard warrior all you want, or an armchair quarterback. It is my opinion as a law-abiding free man that there should never be a circumstance where my life even has the potential to be taken by one sworn to protect and serve unless I have a gun pointed at that officer or someone else. I AM IN NO WAY ADVOCATING THE KILLING OF A POLICE OFFICER. I truly hope that, should I ever be in such a situation, I am able to clear up the misunderstanding peacefully and without incident. But, as others have said, if I'm opening the door at night in my underwear my gun is likely in my hand or close by. At that point, I have committed no crime and deserve as much consideration and due process as one who answered in tophat and evening coat with a congenial smile.

No one is required to wait for someone to point a gun at their face to defend themselves. Police officers have the same right to self defense as everyone else. There are few hard and fast rules but an officer's actions must be reasonable given the information and circumstances the officer faced at the time.

 

[churchmouse]

Finally, English.

If these are the childish games you folks think is conducive to meaningful conversation, then you’re right. I’m outa here, and I’ll be taking my number with me. No more support for what I “thought” was supposed to be about gun rights in the state of Indiana, not a bunch of twits (not the word I wanted to use) determined to alienate members of your organization because you’re too lazy to actually say what you mean. Or, perhaps, you simply lack the balls.

In all of this you are missing the mark. Did you not read my post. We all know each other and sometimes will act like it is our playground.
To see someone that has been a member since what...2013 that is just now posting and being around that long and not understanding the ebb and flow throws up a flag. There is civil discussion in this forum. A lot of it. Knowledge and and exchange of same if you were to read it.
Stick around.

Now.....I am no twit. I have huge balls. That will be the end of that exchange please.

 

[churchmouse]

Don't go just yet, it's people trying to lighten-up the conversation a little, nothing more.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Exactly this.

Thank you Squander.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Finally, English.

If these are the childish games you folks think is conducive to meaningful conversation, then you’re right. I’m outa here, and I’ll be taking my number with me. No more support for what I “thought” was supposed to be about gun rights in the state of Indiana, not a bunch of twits (not the word I wanted to use) determined to alienate members of your organization because you’re too lazy to actually say what you mean. Or, perhaps, you simply lack the balls.

You have got to be kidding. You do understand that certain communities develop language that is unique to their particular group, and that new members often are behind the curve when they first join, right? I think your complain would be valid if this were a site "dedicated the proper use of English when used on online forums,"....but it's not.

 

[Kutnupe14]

In all of this you are missing the mark. Did you not read my post. We all know each other and sometimes will act like it is our playground.
To see someone that has been a member since what...2013 that is just now posting and being around that long and not understanding the ebb and flow throws up a flag. There is civil discussion in this forum. A lot of it. Knowledge and and exchange of same if you were to read it.
Stick around.

Now.....I am no twit. I have huge balls. That will be the end of that exchange please.

When's the next time you're heading down the the alley? Marble or Urethane?

 

[Sylvain]

I have huge balls.

TMI Sir! ... but also sig line worthy.

 

[churchmouse]

When's the next time you're heading down the the alley? Marble or Urethane?

I might have over stated my point just a bit.
I have average balls OK.

 

[KJQ6945]

I might have over stated my point just a bit.
I have average balls OK.

So, your saying, just average Mouse balls?

 

[Sylvain]

I might have over stated my point just a bit.
I have average balls OK.

Crap.Now I don't know which sig line to use.

 

[churchmouse]

So, your saying, just average Mouse balls?

Yeah.....that.

 

[KJQ6945]

It's amazing how a thread can turn..............

 

[churchmouse]

It's amazing how a thread can turn..............

Yes it is.

 

[Thor]

***paging Thor, would the user known as Thor please pick up the red courtesy phone for a hammer question***

Sorry, I was busy elsewhere...yes? Did you have a specific request? Standing by (for a short time).

 

[Thor]

Finally, English.

If these are the childish games you folks think is conducive to meaningful conversation, then you’re right. I’m outa here, and I’ll be taking my number with me. No more support for what I “thought” was supposed to be about gun rights in the state of Indiana, not a bunch of twits (not the word I wanted to use) determined to alienate members of your organization because you’re too lazy to actually say what you mean. Or, perhaps, you simply lack the balls.

4 posts since 2013...and you're calling everyone here childish and not having a meaningful conversation on gun rights? WTFO? You've got USMC on your name and this is the 4th time you've pulled the trigger? Perhaps you simply lack something.