Virginia Police Admit The Drug War Has Been Lost

[mrjarrell]

Make no mistake. Even if the light were to go on, everywhere, that the "war on drugs" has failed, it will not mean the American public will simply not want to "do something". Your money will still be flushed away only this time, the money will be flushed down another rat hole, called rehab. We'll spend billions and billions of dollars trying to help people, the vast, vast majority of which are not ready to help themselves. If we want to reduce drug addiction, I believe we have to hold people accountable for their actions. Redistribution of wealth in the name of rehab will be no more effective than the war on drugs and still result in loss of freedom.

We're already "redistributing" money with this unwinnable war. It's just going to the prison industrial complex, the cops and the state. Move that money from the prisons and cops to rehabilitation, education and maintenance and we'll be better off.

 

[churchmouse]

We're already "redistributing" money with this unwinnable war. It's just going to the prison industrial complex, the cops and the state. Move that money from the prisons and cops to rehabilitation, education and maintenance and we'll be better off.

You are wrong here. Look around.

GFGT has it right. We will not be any better off. Might be worse.

 

[D-Ric902]

So you all are ok with a meth lab next door? You are ok with a house full of heroine addicts right next door with no jobs that steal your stuff and pawn it to get money to buy their drugs huh? horrible neighborhoods are riddled with drugs and crime, because of the drugs. Of course its not a winnable "war" as you will never stop 100% of people doing drugs. Thats not the point. Outright legalization of all drugs is beyond nuts. Does this carry over to prescription drugs? Pain pills are a huge problem and wreck people's lives. Isnt punishment for something a deterrent? Murder is illegal yet we try and stop murder right? Just watch a few episodes of cops, and just imagine the situations on the show being filmed with no cops. Imagine how out of control and insane society would be. 3 a.m. and people are fighting and screaming and yelling and the only ones who put a stop to it are the cops. I guess the neighborhood would them become a form of street justice and all hell would break loose. Laws help keep society in check. criminals(people that are bad for soceity) dont follow laws and should be put away. Drugs make people lazy, stupid, crazy, and hurt society. So just legalize it and all is said and done? Goodness.

Now you did it

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

We're already "redistributing" money with this unwinnable war. It's just going to the prison industrial complex, the cops and the state. Move that money from the prisons and cops to rehabilitation, education and maintenance and we'll be better off.

It won't help. You already poo-pooed one of the education programs out there, what makes you think the .gov will all of a sudden be able to create an effective educational program(s) if they haven't already? Just because some war has been called? Your faith in the .gov is greater than mine.

When the tax dollars start get directed to rehab programs, that's where the opportunists, the community activists, and all manner of people ready to cash in on the taxpayer funded largess will go to get their share. All the while, we'll get fleeced, the drug addicts will be sustained and kept alive and we'll be no better off.

If government is not the answer to stop people from doing drugs, it is not the answer to stop people from doing drugs.

 

[phylodog]

So you all are ok with a meth lab next door? You are ok with a house full of heroine addicts right next door with no jobs that steal your stuff and pawn it to get money to buy their drugs huh? horrible neighborhoods are riddled with drugs and crime, because of the drugs. Of course its not a winnable "war" as you will never stop 100% of people doing drugs. Thats not the point. Outright legalization of all drugs is beyond nuts. Does this carry over to prescription drugs? Pain pills are a huge problem and wreck people's lives. Isnt punishment for something a deterrent? Murder is illegal yet we try and stop murder right? Just watch a few episodes of cops, and just imagine the situations on the show being filmed with no cops. Imagine how out of control and insane society would be. 3 a.m. and people are fighting and screaming and yelling and the only ones who put a stop to it are the cops. I guess the neighborhood would them become a form of street justice and all hell would break loose. Laws help keep society in check. criminals(people that are bad for soceity) dont follow laws and should be put away. Drugs make people lazy, stupid, crazy, and hurt society. So just legalize it and all is said and done? Goodness.

I get where you're coming from and while I have no desire to see a meth lab or a group of heroine addicts move in next door, the current approach is far less than effective. Cocaine was outlawed what, 1909? There's more of it here now then there was than by whatever means you choose to collect the data (tons, per capita, whatever). Prohibition doesn't work. Didn't work with booze, hasn't worked with drugs and it sure wouldn't work with guns.

What is nuts is proposing that we make it all legal then turn around and go another $40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 in debt trying to "help" those who intentionally make bad choices in life by offering "free" treatment for their "disease". I don't mind paying for the pine boxes once their decisions earn them one but that's about the extent of my willingness to spend money in that regard.

 

[mrjarrell]

You are wrong here. Look around.

GFGT has it right. We will not be any better off. Might be worse.

You think we'll be worse off to send people to rehab, rather than years of expensive prison, that has shown itself not to be effective. Portugal's system has worked quite well and there's no chaos. Their numbers of addicts are down and they're saving money. Have been for over a decade now. The war on drugs has made the drug problem worse. Everyone brings up meth, (which has been around since the 30's) and never bother to look at why we have a meth problem. When the government got all behind banning amphetamines people turned to other uppers. When they banned the precursors for "safer" methamphetamine producers turned to the current horrible methods of making it and created a worse problem. The prohibition of these substances created a worse problem. Now we need to find a rational way forward, what has been done isn't working and never has. It's time for a change.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I get where you're coming from and while I have no desire to see a meth lab or a group of heroine addicts move in next door, the current approach is far less than effective. Cocaine was outlawed what, 1909? There's more of it here now then there was than by whatever means you choose to collect the data (tons, per capita, whatever). Prohibition doesn't work. Didn't work with booze, hasn't worked with drugs and it sure wouldn't work with guns.

What is nuts is proposing that we make it all legal then turn around and go another $40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 in debt trying to "help" those who intentionally make bad choices in life by offering "free" treatment for their "disease". I don't mind paying for the pine boxes once their decisions earn them one but that's about the extent of my willingness to spend money in that regard.

Maximum freedom, maximum responsibility.

 

[mrjarrell]

It won't help. You already poo-pooed one of the education programs out there, what makes you think the .gov will all of a sudden be able to create an effective educational program(s) if they haven't already? Just because some war has been called? Your faith in the .gov is greater than mine.

When the tax dollars start get directed to rehab programs, that's where the opportunists, the community activists, and all manner of people ready to cash in on the taxpayer funded largess will go to get their share. All the while, we'll get fleeced, the drug addicts will be sustained and kept alive and we'll be no better off.

If government is not the answer to stop people from doing drugs, it is not the answer to stop people from doing drugs.

DARE has been proven not to be effective. We need real education and not police propaganda. Education does work.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

DARE has been proven not to be effective. We need real education and not police propaganda. Education does work.

Again, your attraction to government solutions and your faith in them exceeds mine.

 

[amboy49]

It was never truly fought.

Based on your assertion above, what would you suggest be done that has not been done ? There are a number of rehab programs sponsored by the various governmental entities - apparently with no huge affect to date.

Many speak of the "victimless crime" of drug abuse - whether it be marijuana or the more invasive and dependence causing cocaine, heroin, etch. I contend these drugs do not represent a victimless scenario. The use of the drugs do result in victims - whether the individual, the user's family, or society as a whole. As we lean ever more steadily toward a total nanny state I think I can see where this will end up. Legalizing some of it, minimizing prison sentences for those convicted of using ( even of multiple offenses ), and rarely if ever placing the blame on the individual. Instead the "experts" as well as the left leaning layman will continue to believe the user must be rehabilitated at the expense of the general public. No definition of winning the war will ever be given. Instead, we'll get feel good programs spending taxpayer dollars.

I'm all for adopting the method of punishment where those convicted of dealing are exiled to an island to subsist for themselves. Users get one free get out of jail card - second offense gets them sent to the same island as the dealers. Until we (1) stop the wholesale importation of drugs and (2) severely penalize the dealers ( read as two strikes and you're out) nothing will change.

 

[Twangbanger]

No thanks. I'd rather tax dollars be placed in the pocket of those willing to do something to earn it rather than those who's career is making bad choices.

I'm all for legalization provided the money saved is actually saved rather than redirected to parasites.

Rep inbound. When we transform into a society that allows people to suffer the consequences of repeated bad decisions, I'll support full legalization of everything. Not a moment before.

Welfare state is welfare state, is welfare state. I've lost interest in debating which form of it "works" the best. It all "works," in somebody's mind.

 

[miguel]

Rep inbound. When we transform into a society that allows people to suffer the consequences of repeated bad decisions, I'll support full legalization of everything. Not a moment before.

This is a great point.

 

[ModernGunner]

Once again, the libtard potheads running rampant.

Maybe they should find a pro-pot website to infest, rather than clog up a firearms forum with their garbage.

 

[D-Ric902]

Based on your assertion above, what would you suggest be done that has not been done ? There are a number of rehab programs sponsored by the various governmental entities - apparently with no huge affect to date.

Many speak of the "victimless crime" of drug abuse - whether it be marijuana or the more invasive and dependence causing cocaine, heroin, etch. I contend these drugs do not represent a victimless scenario. The use of the drugs do result in victims - whether the individual, the user's family, or society as a whole. As we lean ever more steadily toward a total nanny state I think I can see where this will end up. Legalizing some of it, minimizing prison sentences for those convicted of using ( even of multiple offenses ), and rarely if ever placing the blame on the individual. Instead the "experts" as well as the left leaning layman will continue to believe the user must be rehabilitated at the expense of the general public. No definition of winning the war will ever be given. Instead, we'll get feel good programs spending taxpayer dollars.

I'm all for adopting the method of punishment where those convicted of dealing are exiled to an island to subsist for themselves. Users get one free get out of jail card - second offense gets them sent to the same island as the dealers. Until we (1) stop the wholesale importation of drugs and (2) severely penalize the dealers ( read as two strikes and you're out) nothing will change.

You don't mean to say

drug use and abuse and addiction ​is not a victimless crime?

 

[D-Ric902]

Once again, the libtard potheads running rampant.

Maybe they should find a pro-pot website to infest, rather than clog up a firearms forum with their garbage.

Its fun to watch

 

[jbombelli]

This is the first time I have ever heard this being discussed here on INGO

lets have a long, honest, adult conversation about it

I would hate to see this devolve into a name calling contest about "Prohibitionist" "freedom hating" "statist"


No, no really
honest and for true

You say that ...

Once again, the libtard potheads running rampant.

Maybe they should find a pro-pot website to infest, rather than clog up a firearms forum with their garbage.

He says that ...

Its fun to watch

And you in essence cheer it on.

Hypocrite much?

 

[churchmouse]

You think we'll be worse off to send people to rehab, rather than years of expensive prison, that has shown itself not to be effective. Portugal's system has worked quite well and there's no chaos. Their numbers of addicts are down and they're saving money. Have been for over a decade now. The war on drugs has made the drug problem worse. Everyone brings up meth, (which has been around since the 30's) and never bother to look at why we have a meth problem. When the government got all behind banning amphetamines people turned to other uppers. When they banned the precursors for "safer" methamphetamine producers turned to the current horrible methods of making it and created a worse problem. The prohibition of these substances created a worse problem. Now we need to find a rational way forward, what has been done isn't working and never has. It's time for a change.

You made my point for me. People seek out alternatives. It is the nature of the addict. Rehab does not work.
Have you been to Portugal. Have you been in the streets or just believe some hyped facts/figures put out by.....hold on.......Government.
I have not been there so I am skeptical.
I look only at what I have seen with my own eyes. That and nothing more. People will choose a path and follow it. Education or not. The info is right there at our fingertips yet these folks "Seek" out "Horrible" alternatives and you think education will change that.
The system is failing to teach our kids or anyone else and you think that is the answer......really.

Society's underbelly is growing daily. It is not due to the war on drugs or prohibition. It is choice. Pure and simple.

 

[churchmouse]

Based on your assertion above, what would you suggest be done that has not been done ? There are a number of rehab programs sponsored by the various governmental entities - apparently with no huge affect to date.

Many speak of the "victimless crime" of drug abuse - whether it be marijuana or the more invasive and dependence causing cocaine, heroin, etch. I contend these drugs do not represent a victimless scenario. The use of the drugs do result in victims - whether the individual, the user's family, or society as a whole. As we lean ever more steadily toward a total nanny state I think I can see where this will end up. Legalizing some of it, minimizing prison sentences for those convicted of using ( even of multiple offenses ), and rarely if ever placing the blame on the individual. Instead the "experts" as well as the left leaning layman will continue to believe the user must be rehabilitated at the expense of the general public. No definition of winning the war will ever be given. Instead, we'll get feel good programs spending taxpayer dollars.

I'm all for adopting the method of punishment where those convicted of dealing are exiled to an island to subsist for themselves. Users get one free get out of jail card - second offense gets them sent to the same island as the dealers. Until we (1) stop the wholesale importation of drugs and (2) severely penalize the dealers ( read as two strikes and you're out) nothing will change.

It is not a war that is really being fought. Dealers operate in the open on the corner and local LEO know it but what do they do. Bust them and they are right back out there in 24/48 hours. It is an endless loop with no end.

I agree in punishment and that rehab does not work. I have seen countless people enter into rehab and fall right back down the rabbit hole in short order when released.
What would I suggest.........good question as I see no real end to this.
The existing drug culture will only get worse.

 

[D-Ric902]

You say that ...



He says that ...



And you in essence cheer it on.

Hypocrite much?

I should have applied purple?
how many threads could be merged into this one? 6? More?

epic dead horse beating

Yet another troll thread

major argument bait

pro drug legalization group self stroking circle

is that clear enough?

 

[mrjarrell]

Again, your attraction to government solutions and your faith in them exceeds mine.

Who said it had to be government educating people? Lots of non profits out there do a commendable job every day. Government can be a source for it, but so far they haven't done a very good job. They have no incentive or wish to truly educate on the issue.