"The Pitchforks Are Coming… For Us Plutocrats"

[actaeon277]

Blame the free market for government caused problems and then call for more government as a solution. Brilliant! Let's sink this ship faster.

Just for my own personal kicks ...
Who here is in favor of a weak dollar?

Lake County To Probe 32-blow Hammer Suicide - Chicago Tribune

Did James A. Cooley take his own life by hitting himself on the head 32 times with a claw hammer or was his death a homicide?

Ow!
That didn't do it.
Oww!
That didn't do it.
OWW!
That didn't do it.

 

[AA&E]

Has it occurred to you that perhaps welfare is the biggest contributor to the welfare class? Has it also occurred to you that it's already pretty damned expensive to do business in the US? Why do you think all our **** is made in china?

Why do I think all of our **** is made in China? Because our political leaders sided with business instead of hardworking americans and removed tarrifs.

I've run a business for over 12 years. The people who have worked for me have earned between just under $20/hour to over $50/hour. If you have a failed business plan or something not marketable, it is YOUR fault... not the systems.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Why do I think all of our **** is made in China? Because our political leaders sided with business instead of hardworking americans and removed tarrifs.

I've run a business for over 12 years. The people who have worked for me have earned between just under $20/hour to over $50/hour. If you have a failed business plan or something not marketable, it is YOUR fault... not the systems.

Even $20/hr in the Birdseye area is a fortune! If I were still in that area...I'd learn your trade!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't disagree with that, but the business community needs to get its collective **** together and start paying people a decent wage. Eventually the authors dire predictions will come true and it could get damned ugly when it does. I see big companies all the time giving out millions in exec bonuses and the workers get stiffed, year after year. Stagnant salaries are a drag on the economy, (no matter what the talking heads at Fox say). Eventually the man on the street is going to convince .gov to do something and when they do, we'll be screwed.

I don't disagree with this. How do you suggest a business do this and still remain competitive? I doubt most businesses operate with enough margin that they can give people the raises it would take for them to feel they're where they should be--compensation-wise and still be worth it to remain in business.

 

[ATOMonkey]

That article is obviously written by a guy who wants to make more money by having someone else foot the bill.

Who do you think will pay for a $15/hr min wage? Regular consumers, that's who. Not plutocrats... It's an argument to convince the uneduated to foot the bill for placating themselves. Brilliant really...

There are sooooooooooooooooooooooo many flaws in his economic arguments, that reading it caused blood to shoot out of my eyes. Either that, or seeing his smug face pop up on my browser on 4 separate occasions.

It really is amazing what passes as "intellectual" on the net anymore.

 

[jamil]

Why do I think all of our **** is made in China? Because our political leaders sided with business instead of hardworking americans and removed tarrifs.

I've run a business for over 12 years. The people who have worked for me have earned between just under $20/hour to over $50/hour. If you have a failed business plan or something not marketable, it is YOUR fault... not the systems.

That smells like .

1) all our **** is made in China for a lot more reasons than that. Go ahead. Start taxing the **** out of Chinese goods. China is willing to do all the dirty **** we don't want done here without the mountains of regulation. Add the tariffs enough to even out the cost, and you'll see instant inflation that would put the bad old days of Jimmy Carter to shame, because with our love fest with "green manufacturing" and regulation and law suits, the cost of everything will go up dramatically. And then on top of that, you want manufacturers here to pay the least skilled worker $15/hour. That's a pretty ****ed up plan.

2) That you think your experience translates across the entire spectrum businesses says you have a very narrow view. years ago I worked in electronics contract manufacturing. The margins for the particular kinds of stuff we built were typically 3%. We made our money on volume. If that company paid its least skilled assembly line worker $15/hour, it could never have competed with the foreign players. The tech bubble helped make the company successful. So at the end of the tech bubble, the volume started to shrink, coupled with increased competition from Mexico and China for high volume cheap manufacturing, and the company went belly up. You might think they deserved it. How dare they get into a low margin business like that. But the 1100 people who worked there, were happy to have a job. The point is, not all jobs in all industries are sustainable at $20/hour like you offer.

So if an industry can't support high enough margins to pay $20/hour, **** it, no job is better than not having a $20/hour job. Right?

 

[Arthur Dent]

Wages are going to have to be addressed at some point. They've been stagnant for over 10 years (longer even for the lowest paid people). They're not doing the economy any favours. Companies are stockpiling their money and paying out executive bonuses in the millions while the workers are getting ****. Eventually, things are going to boil over.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/sunday-review/americas-productivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html

Stagnant for closer to 30 years.

 

[actaeon277]

That article is obviously written by a guy who wants to make more money by having someone else foot the bill.

Who do you think will pay for a $15/hr min wage? Regular consumers, that's who. Not plutocrats... It's an argument to convince the uneduated to foot the bill for placating themselves. Brilliant really...

There are sooooooooooooooooooooooo many flaws in his economic arguments, that reading it caused blood to shoot out of my eyes. Either that, or seeing his smug face pop up on my browser on 4 separate occasions.

It really is amazing what passes as "intellectual" on the net anymore.

[video=youtube;JogEQzABG-E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JogEQzABG-E[/video]

 

[Arthur Dent]

A government big enough to force companies to pay a minimum wage is a government big enough to continue violating your rights. What about the right of a business owner, who has taken all the risk, to pay what the job is worth? A business is not in business to employ people.



So stop printing money!



I think we need to get the government to stop with the Keynesian anal sex, and stop the corporate welfare.

Without the employees to do the work you can't do you are out of business. It's a two way street.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I will leave you to reconcile your own conflicts.

No conflicts here, buddy.

 

[jamil]

Without the employees to do the work you can't do you are out of business. It's a two way street.

HALLE-****ING-LUJAH! Now you get how the market works.

/thread.

 

[KG1]

I don't disagree with this. How do you suggest a business do this and still remain competitive? I doubt most businesses operate with enough margin that they can give people the raises it would take for them to feel they're where they should be--compensation-wise and still be worth it to remain in business.

There are a few on here that suggest if you can't afford to give the people a minimum living wage then you should not be considered to be a viable business and should shutter the doors anyway.

Maybe this should be a government mandate too.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

There are a few on here that suggest if you can't afford to give the people a minimum living wage then you should not be considered to be a viable business and should shutter the doors anyway.

Yeah, I know. We already know that the Constitution means little when people want something really badly. We've got legislators that will give it to them to maintain their offices and we've got judges that don't appear to have ever read the Constitution. So, it's not so unimaginable that there could come a day when the popular vote dictates the things such as the forcible confiscation of peoples' savings and forced distribution of salaries be the law of the land. And that big government, with tools at its disposal such as power to tax, commerce clause, supremacy clause, and 14th amendment will have no problem applying the will of the people to help level the playing field if it will mean they'll get re-elected another term.

 

[Arthur Dent]

HALLE-****ING-LUJAH! Now you get how the market works.

/thread.

Nice try at being condescending.

 

[ATM]

Nice try at being condescending.

Try not to stumble over the fact that you inadvertently refuted your own position while still somehow failing to recognize it.

Actually, if you advance that thought just a bit further, you may come to realize that allowing people to enter into mutually agreeable terms of wages/labor and interacting based upon supply/demand without the coercive force of government just might be worth a try.

A two way street works just fine without a third government lane erected between them.

Or... just keep insisting that further artificial manipulation and control by the government is the answer.

 

[AA&E]

Even $20/hr in the Birdseye area is a fortune! If I were still in that area...I'd learn your trade!

And this isn't really a 'trade' type skill. That is for pulling cable so the people with knowledge can come in behind them and do the rest of the job. Unfortunately, you are correct, this is a lot of money in this area. The old frame of mind in Dubois county is paying people $10-13/hour slaving away in hot factories. These are the same wage levels being paid when I graduated high school over 20 years ago. These people, due to inflation, have taken an enormous paycut over the past couple of decades.

 

[AA&E]

That smells like .

1) all our **** is made in China for a lot more reasons than that. Go ahead. Start taxing the **** out of Chinese goods. China is willing to do all the dirty **** we don't want done here without the mountains of regulation. Add the tariffs enough to even out the cost, and you'll see instant inflation that would put the bad old days of Jimmy Carter to shame, because with our love fest with "green manufacturing" and regulation and law suits, the cost of everything will go up dramatically. And then on top of that, you want manufacturers here to pay the least skilled worker $15/hour. That's a pretty ****ed up plan.

2) That you think your experience translates across the entire spectrum businesses says you have a very narrow view. years ago I worked in electronics contract manufacturing. The margins for the particular kinds of stuff we built were typically 3%. We made our money on volume. If that company paid its least skilled assembly line worker $15/hour, it could never have competed with the foreign players. The tech bubble helped make the company successful. So at the end of the tech bubble, the volume started to shrink, coupled with increased competition from Mexico and China for high volume cheap manufacturing, and the company went belly up. You might think they deserved it. How dare they get into a low margin business like that. But the 1100 people who worked there, were happy to have a job. The point is, not all jobs in all industries are sustainable at $20/hour like you offer.

So if an industry can't support high enough margins to pay $20/hour, **** it, no job is better than not having a $20/hour job. Right?

If you think China is a grand design, go there. Our love afair with green manufacturing policies has a lot to do with the fact we have visibility beyond a couple hundred yards. I grew up in a rural community with a strong manufacturing sector and remember the air quality growing up, it has dramatically improved. If this isn't something you care about, you can probably find like minded souls on the other side of the planet. Personally, I am quite fond of my children not growing up weezing or not being able to play outside due to industrial pollutants.

I never said $20/hour should be the benchmark. I said if your business model doesn't generate a satisfactory profit for you (the owners) while offering employment that doesn't contribute to the downfall of our economy, you have a flawed business model and/or product. Where the benchmark should be placed is still up for debate in my mind, but I am confident it wouldn't be in the $7/hour range leaving the taxpayers subsidizing these workers, and indirectly their employers. And that is EXACTLY what happens with Walmart every year. They produce $5 BILLION in profits, but are the largest contributor to social welfare in the united states. They could afford to pay their lower paid workers $10,000 a year more and still profit $3 Billion a year, but instead they have 'capitalist cheerleaders' such as yourself that allow them to contribute to the downfall of our economy. And the ultimate slap in the face for the workers of this nation are that the capitalist cheerleaders like yourself are the very first to criticize these people for being on the public tit. It's a remarkably ironic situation from my perspective.

 

[AA&E]

No conflicts here, buddy.

He ain't your buddy, pal.

 

[AA&E]

HALLE-****ING-LUJAH! Now you get how the market works.

/thread.

Ignoring the obvious economic strains and chronic un/under-employment creating a situation that allows for supply/demand to affect wages?

 

[Hotdoger]

Expanding the workforce with uncheck illegal immigration has nothing to do with the disparity, is what the progressives will not admit