22LR flippers

[jcwit]

^ This.

I make a living selling computers. I defend capitalism, not whiny forum users

So go sell some computers and quit whining about folks with views different from yours.

 

[jamil]

Learned something new today. Telling people to quit whining, is itself, whining?

 

[jcwit]

Well Ya, there's more than a few old sayings regarding when pointing out what's wrong with others one should take a close look at themselves.

Matthew 7:3

 

[mkgr22]

A couple months ago I was wandering around a gun show before it opened, since my stuff was already set up on my table. I saw a guy with a case of 12 boxes of 525 Remington golden bullets, priced at $45 each.

Another vendor came up and made a deal with the guy for the whole case, and took them back to his table. He put 2 bricks on his table at $60 each, and put the rest under the table.

Yet another vendor saw the $60 price, and bought both bricks, then took them to his booth and priced them $75. The other guy pulled out two more at $60.

I don't think any of this ammo was sold once the show opened to the public. So, did anybody make money?

 

[billt]

Well Ya, there's more than a few old sayings regarding when pointing out what's wrong with others one should take a close look at themselves.

I don't think it's as much of a question as to, "what's wrong with others", as it is what's wrong with a capitalist nation that thinks like a bunch of socialists. With the have not's continually whining about the haves. Wahhhhh. He's got more ammo than me... And he doesn't even shoot it!

 

[AA&E]

please explain the specific evil of "flippers". What makes what they do so utterly sinful to you? Do you think they're responsible for the empty shelves? When all the big box stores are selling it for nearly the same price as before, and with a market that is willing to pay $75 for a lousy Winchester bulk pack, do you think it would stay on the shelves?

Maybe you'll also think that I'm defending "flippers" so I must be one. Well, I shoot what I buy. If I'm defending anything, it's free market Capitalism. And I'm pointing out that you're blaming the wrong culprit for this predicament.

I can't live the lifestyle I want because my greedy employer doesn't pay me enough.

I can't shoot what I want because the greedy flippers deny me the opportunity.

In both cases, my choices had no effect on the predicament I'm in. It's the greedy bastards who are at fault.

The root of the problem? Perhaps not. Exasperating the problem? Absolutely. I don't care what you think about my opinion. I'll continue having it, and expressing it as I please.

Horn, I make plenty, more then most. I shoot anytime I want and replenish just fine. Your arguments fall pathetically short of having any relevance here....

 

[AA&E]

That is my situation as well. I have 3 Marlin Model 60's, and all of them will shoot anything. And shoot it accurately I might add. As with most .22 semi autos, they tend to get filthy in short order because of the blowback action. They do require much more frequent cleaning because of that. Nothing that a coffee can full of clean Kerosene, a stiff bristled paint brush, and a air hose won't take care of in 5 minutes.

And these are very simple weapons to field strip and clean properly. Literally a ten minute job.

 

[AA&E]

Defending "the purity of the flippers", is in itself defending capitalism. Nothing more or less. The only way you can prevent these type of people is through limits on purchases, and price controls. As for me, I think the latter is far more annoying and dangerous to contend with than the "flippers".

That is a fair point. But do we never draw a line. Say items like gasoline? Do you think such tactics would be allowed to continue with a number of different items? During the gas shortages of the 70's did they allow people to sell their allotment for 3 times the going rate? After a hurricane do they allow people to horde and inflate the cost of bottle water?

 

[AA&E]

I don't think it's as much of a question as to, "what's wrong with others", as it is what's wrong with a capitalist nation that thinks like a bunch of socialists. With the have not's continually whining about the haves. Wahhhhh. He's got more ammo than me... And he doesn't even shoot it!

My version of capitalism involves charging what the market will bear. I feel the market does remarkably well, I haven't paid more then $4.00 for a box of 50 since all of this began. I have nearly 1500 rounds and obtain 100 each week from my LGS. What I can't understand is why someone would pay so much for something from someone with so little invested? Storefront? Nope. Advertising? Nope. Any appreciable overhead? Not hardly. I disagree with it, it doesn't personally affect me... certainly not to the degree it does some of you who come here zealously defending the virtues of capitalism. All while claiming all who oppose such practises are socialist. If anyone sounds liike a sniveling 2 year old crying over a dropped ice cream cone.. it's the people that come trotting in everytime defending such nonsense and claiming any of differing views must be whining.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Anyone ever read the stories by Laura Ingalls Wilder, specifically the book about the long winter? Seems the Ingalls clan was in a community out West when the biggest snow storm in history blew in. Community was cut off and folks were getting desperate for food. One of the local folks played the hero, took a wagon (or sleigh) out to a source of supply and made it back with enough grain to keep folks alive through the winter. The hero gave the supplies to the local store owner so all would have access to it. The store owner jacked the price up, way over his costs, and planned on making a big profit - a killing. Folks complained, threatened, whined - 'bout like folks here going on about flippers. Hotheads were all set to storm the store and take the food needed, but someone asked Pa Ingalls about the plan. Pa said something to the effect that it would be wrong to steal the stuff from the store owner as he had come by it rightfully, and it was his stuff to do with as he pleased. He reckoned the store owner could sell it for any price he chose since it was America. He also reckoned local folks could remember what the store owner decided to do and could act accordingly when the snow melted and business returned to normal.

Folks thought about that a bit. Then folks went home without storming the store.

Store owner priced the supplies at reasonable prices and everyone was happy. Store made a profit. Folks were able to eat. Snow melted and life returned to normal.

Now, I am just going from memory here, and I may have "mis-remembered" some of the details. The general pattern seems to be one that offers a bit of guidance for us here.

Folks can buy what they want, for whatever reason they want. None of my business. Folks can sell it at whatever price they want, too. None of my business. I do not have to buy it. It is not Obama Affordable Health Care that I am forced by the US Congress to buy. If they want $70 for a brick of Remington, and some fool wants to pay it, have at it. I am not paying it. No skin off my nose. But I will remember who did right by me when I needed some ammo, and who was poking a stick in my eye then, too.

 

[billt]

it's the people that come trotting in everytime defending such nonsense and claiming any of differing views must be whining.

They are whining simply because they disapprove of what someone else is doing. If you feel that way, don't participate in the flippers antics, and let it end there. I think people who pay $75.00 a brick for .22's are nuts. But if that's what they choose to do with their money, they should be allowed to. If that offends someone who thinks it shouldn't be priced more than one third of that, and they're taking advantage of people.... Too bad. Just like if they, (the flippers), choose to stand around Walmart for 2 hours, waiting for ammo to be stocked. Good for them. Don't whine to me because some other early bird got your worm. I don't care what they charge, because I know what I'll pay. But with that said, I will defend their right to charge whatever they think the market will bear.....And yes, that is defending capitalism in it's purest and most simple form. And pi$$ing and moaning about it, is whining in it's simplest form.

 

[jcwit]

While I do not support what the "flippers" are doing and it does not effect me personally, my gripe is the fact it is hurting our future young folks getting into the sport of firearms, and that is a bad thing.

Now to those who say why do I not give the young folks some of my stash, I have, and I've supported them with funds, but now being as here where I live the lottery put on by Federal was offered to our youth group and we took advantage of it this is no longer an issue, locally.


But I still stand by my ideals in the grand scheme of things.


Don't agree with me, that's your option, do I really care, only to the fact it shows how the country feels about their fellow men.

 

[jamil]

The root of the problem? Perhaps not. Exasperating the problem? Absolutely. I don't care what you think about my opinion. I'll continue having it, and expressing it as I please.

Horn, I make plenty, more then most. I shoot anytime I want and replenish just fine. Your arguments fall pathetically short of having any relevance here....

If people are willing to buy a bulk pack of crappy Winchester for $75, why would it still be on the shelves at $25? The problem is demand. The price is simply reflecting that, except for the big box stores who are not charging its current market value. If they did, things would equalize much quicker and the prices would eventually settle to close to what they were.

There have been a lot of these threads, and at first I wanted someone to blame as well. At first I blamed the flippers. But I realized that they are only inserting themselves as middlemen. To me, that's between them and whoever will pay that much for it. But without them, you'd not see any more .22 on the shelves than you do now.

That is a fair point. But do we never draw a line. Say items like gasoline? Do you think such tactics would be allowed to continue with a number of different items? During the gas shortages of the 70's did they allow people to sell their allotment for 3 times the going rate? After a hurricane do they allow people to horde and inflate the cost of bottle water?

I think people are so used to government solving their problems that they forget how to make the market work. In the Ingalls example, they demonstrated how the market handles that. Payback is a beotch.

My version of capitalism involves charging what the market will bear. I feel the market does remarkably well, I haven't paid more then $4.00 for a box of 50 since all of this began. I have nearly 1500 rounds and obtain 100 each week from my LGS. What I can't understand is why someone would pay so much for something from someone with so little invested? Storefront? Nope. Advertising? Nope. Any appreciable overhead? Not hardly. I disagree with it, it doesn't personally affect me... certainly not to the degree it does some of you who come here zealously defending the virtues of capitalism. All while claiming all who oppose such practises are socialist. If anyone sounds liike a sniveling 2 year old crying over a dropped ice cream cone.. it's the people that come trotting in everytime defending such nonsense and claiming any of differing views must be whining.

I don't think you're a socialist. My purpose isn't to call any names or pile on. I just think you guys are blaming the wrong source. I don't care about making a profit, I don't sell what I buy because it's more valuable to me to shoot. I'm not a "flipper". But I don't hate them either. They see an opportunity and they avail themselves of it.

If the market will bear $75 for a crappy Winchester bulk pack, then what's the rub? Price is often determined more by market value than by cost.

But when people create these threads complaining about "flippers", I just think you're blaming the wrong culprit? The problem is excessive demand and a broken feedback path to market equilibrium, caused by the largest link in the supply chain.

Folks can buy what they want, for whatever reason they want. None of my business. Folks can sell it at whatever price they want, too. None of my business. I do not have to buy it. It is not Obama Affordable Health Care that I am forced by the US Congress to buy. If they want $70 for a brick of Remington, and some fool wants to pay it, have at it. I am not paying it. No skin off my nose. But I will remember who did right by me when I needed some ammo, and who was poking a stick in my eye then, too.

You've presented a great lesson in free market 101 - feedback.

While I do not support what the "flippers" are doing and it does not effect me personally, my gripe is the fact it is hurting our future young folks getting into the sport of firearms, and that is a bad thing.

Now to those who say why do I not give the young folks some of my stash, I have, and I've supported them with funds, but now being as here where I live the lottery put on by Federal was offered to our youth group and we took advantage of it this is no longer an issue, locally.


But I still stand by my ideals in the grand scheme of things.


Don't agree with me, that's your option, do I really care, only to the fact it shows how the country feels about their fellow men.

If the ammo industry raised its price to meet demand, what would you think of them? If you walked into Walmart and found a bulk pack of federal for $72.99, would it **** you off? My guess is, it would. Would you blame Walmart? My guess is, you would.

But if they'd have done that back when this crap first started, there'd have been no flippers, and you'd have seen plenty of ammo on the shelves then, and the price would have dropped back to normal within a few months. These "flippers" got most of their supply from big box stores. If they had no source of cheap ammo, there'd be no incentive to flip.

But no, we like to hold businesses to our own "ideals" so they don't respond to the market in natural ways. So they still sell it cheap when the market would bear much more. And people buy it up.

 

[jcwit]

If the ammo industry raised its price to meet demand, what would you think of them? If you walked into Walmart and found a bulk pack of federal for $72.99, would it **** you off? My guess is, it would. Would you blame Walmart? My guess is, you would.

But if they'd have done that back when this crap first started, there'd have been no flippers, and you'd have seen plenty of ammo on the shelves then, and the price would have dropped back to normal within a few months. These "flippers" got most of their supply from big box stores. If they had no source of cheap ammo, there'd be no incentive to flip.

But no, we like to hold businesses to our own "ideals" so they don't respond to the market in natural ways. So they still sell it cheap when the market would bear much more. And people buy it up.

Being as I spent most of my working career in retail and the last 20 years with my own successful retail business, I never thought of treating my customers in such a matter.


You may feel different, but I held my fellow man "customers" to a higher level, mayhap that was why I was successful, mayhap its why W/M is so successful.

 

[churchmouse]

There is a new post in the classifieds right now......$50 a brick....hurry up, get it while it is still highly overpriced.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

" I have nearly 1500 rounds and obtain 100 each week from my LGS. "

I'm sorry but when I read that I couldn't help but laugh, that wouldn't even load my magazines for AM180, when I take the grand kids out to shoot the minimum is a brick, if I take the AM180 out the minimum is 3 bricks and more likely 2-3 times that, at 1600 RPM it goes through them pretty fast

 

[jamil]

Being as I spent most of my working career in retail and the last 20 years with my own successful retail business, I never thought of treating my customers in such a matter.


You may feel different, but I held my fellow man "customers" to a higher level, mayhap that was why I was successful, mayhap its why W/M is so successful.

I know. You have to. That's why WM and all the other big box stores sell it cheap--AND limit what you can buy. What if we gave them permission to charge market price? Don't you think things would be back to normal buy now? There'd have been no flipping. There'd probably never been an empty shelf priced at $70, or even $60. I wouldn't pay that. And when it starts sitting on the shelf too long they drop the price until it moves. Eventually, normal.

But no. That would **** us off. So we're stuck in this cycle, and would be even if there were no flippers.

 

[jcwit]

The other issue with "flippers", do they in fact have a license to sell? I know folks do not need a license for an occasional sale, now & then, but most of these "flippers" have now been at it for months now. Tax license obviously required other than it's an underground economy. I know we did when we, wife & I, were in business.

 

[87iroc]

Its still selling in our classifieds as people gripe about it. Its warming up and people want to take their kids shooting....let the ammo lines continue at Gander and Walmart.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/ammunition-reloading-supplies/342471-22lr.html

If I was down to nothing and it meant taking my daughter shooting or not. I'd pay it...its a vicious cycle.

 

[jamil]

The other issue with "flippers", do they in fact have a license to sell? I know folks do not need a license for an occasional sale, now & then, but most of these "flippers" have now been at it for months now. Tax license obviously required other than it's an underground economy. I know we did when we, wife & I, were in business.

It's a good point. They need to work within the law. I'm not sure though that they sell in huge volumes. With number limits at every big box store, it's going to be a box here a box there. I'm not sure about the tax law end of it. They already paid sales tax if they bought it retail. I'm not sure how that figures into what they've sold it for.